Flying a Chipmunk
Ah yes, FL - WK518 does indeed bring back a few memories! Glad to hear that the BBMF are still using it!
I flew some aeros in a Chippie not so long ago - the noise, smell and vibration were all still there! But no shotgun cartridge starter, being a civilianised aircraft...
However did we manage with ULAS, the AEF, Benson, Abingdon, Andover, plus numerous flying schools all quite busy - yet no Mode S..... In fact not even Mode A, a 10-channel VHF radio, no navkit...... But no-one ever had a mid-air.
I flew some aeros in a Chippie not so long ago - the noise, smell and vibration were all still there! But no shotgun cartridge starter, being a civilianised aircraft...
However did we manage with ULAS, the AEF, Benson, Abingdon, Andover, plus numerous flying schools all quite busy - yet no Mode S..... In fact not even Mode A, a 10-channel VHF radio, no navkit...... But no-one ever had a mid-air.
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True.
The only 'incident' I remember was when a VR pilot with 6 AEF, not one of ours, taxied into a WLAC Cherokee taxiing on the civvy side of the airfield.
As AW pointed out in his inimitable style at briefing the next morning, it provided 'an unfortunate but nonetheless useful' illustration of why our QFIs emphasised the importance of weaving the nose.
It certainly did!
I wonder if the stude in the Cherokee ever flew again.
I used to fly a friend's civilianised Chippie some years later. It seemed odd at first not going through the pre-start cartridge procedure - and I rather missed the bang and that distinctive smell when it fired. The strangest feeling of all was sitting on a cushioned seat-box instead of a parachute.
The only 'incident' I remember was when a VR pilot with 6 AEF, not one of ours, taxied into a WLAC Cherokee taxiing on the civvy side of the airfield.
As AW pointed out in his inimitable style at briefing the next morning, it provided 'an unfortunate but nonetheless useful' illustration of why our QFIs emphasised the importance of weaving the nose.
It certainly did!
I wonder if the stude in the Cherokee ever flew again. I used to fly a friend's civilianised Chippie some years later. It seemed odd at first not going through the pre-start cartridge procedure - and I rather missed the bang and that distinctive smell when it fired. The strangest feeling of all was sitting on a cushioned seat-box instead of a parachute.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 21st Aug 2006 at 08:24.
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It's such a special aeroplane - do a search on PPrune for any Chipmunk-related thread and you'll struggle to find a negative comment. Responses from the great and good as well as the newbies.
And it's an appeal that endures across the generations. At my club at the weekend I watched 3 youngsters being briefed for a variety of exercises on our Chipmunk, from effects of controls (a 15 year old ab initio student) through to a couple of guys in their very early 20's doing initial tailwheel conversion (from PA28) and initial aeros (an already Chipmunk-experienced bloke, despite his youth!)
Our Chipmunk has done 20 hours in 3 weeks - says something about its appeal
And it's an appeal that endures across the generations. At my club at the weekend I watched 3 youngsters being briefed for a variety of exercises on our Chipmunk, from effects of controls (a 15 year old ab initio student) through to a couple of guys in their very early 20's doing initial tailwheel conversion (from PA28) and initial aeros (an already Chipmunk-experienced bloke, despite his youth!)
Our Chipmunk has done 20 hours in 3 weeks - says something about its appeal
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Originally Posted by Dan Winterland
A lot of PPLs will go "Ooh, taildraggers!" usually accompanied by a sucking of teeth or a shake of the head when the Chippy is mentioned. Don't let them put you off. The Chippy is one of the easiest aircraft to fly ever built- it's just different and it's learning the differences which will take the time. If it seems to take longer than expected don't despair. You will find it will just click after a while. It's an amazing aircraft for instilling confidence and has the nicest handling of any light aircraft I have ever flown. I learnt to fly in the RAF on the Chippy and soloed in 8hr20. Later in my career, I instructed on it for three years and sent some people solo in less time than that. Interestingly, those who arrived with some flying experience in spam cans had no advantage over those with no experience.
A few points:
The taxying attitude is the same as the landing attitude. Remember it. Also, most Chippy accidents happen on the ground. Get the nose weaving and never taxy into an enclosed space without being confident you have room. It's much safer to stop the engine and push the aircraft. Keep the stick back when taxying except when taxying downwind in strong winds when the stick should be neutral otherwise you run the risk of a gust getting under the elevator and tipping the tail up.
The approach speed is 60 knots with full flap. Exceed that by even a couple of knots and you will find it floats and makes the landing harder. Nail 60 knots and you will find it much easier to land. However, it is stable on the approach and easier than a PA28 to maintain speed. The crosswind limit in RAF sevice was 15knts. This is an airframe limit and you will find you will run out of rudder at 16 knots if you try to exceed it in a three point landing. You can increase it by 'wheeling' on and using the rudder/brake, but this is groundloop territory and your instructor shouldn't be teaching it at the conversion stage.
Groundlooping is one of the horror stories you will hear from the uninitiated. It happens because on the ground a taildragger's c of g is behind the wheels and will try to overtake the wheels if there is any drag from them. Prime groundloop conditions are light crosswinds with no headwind. Be aware of it and be prompt with the use of rudder. If it starts to go, don't be too quick to use differential brake - you will proabably exacerbate the situation. And if you do groundloop, don't worry. The aircraft is very strong and damage is unlikely with the castering tailwheel. I have experienced maybe a couple of dozen with no damage.
Be careful about using the brake lever on the ground. Use if harshly on the landing roll, you might find the tail lifting. And if you have any rudder applied when you use it, the brake will come on that side first.
You will fly aerobatics - the aircraft is designed for it and it's delightful. In the RAF syllabus, students often could fly a loop before first solo and were cleared solo aerobatics at 30 hours. However, it's not an Extra 300 and those aeros will have to be gentle. Pull lots of g at once and you will lose too much speed and use up lots of valuable height. The engine has a basic carburettor and will stop when inverted. It stops because the float goes to what is now the top of the float chamber and opens the jet fully. This leads to a 'rich cut' and too much fuel is the reason for the engine stopping. Close the throttle while inverted and you will find the engine picks up much quicker. Learn stall turns to the right first. Going left is opposing the engine rotation and much harder. If you mess up an aerobatic manouevre and think you're going to tailslide, hold the controls very firmly in the central position. If they 'snatch' to full deflection, airframe damage is probable.
The Chipmunk spin is very stable. It was cleared up to eight turns in RAF service, four turns loses you about a 1000' with another 300' for the recovery and is much more comfortable. The Chippy incipient spin stage is the first 360 degrees which is easily recoverd by centralising the controls.
Enjoy!
A few points:
The taxying attitude is the same as the landing attitude. Remember it. Also, most Chippy accidents happen on the ground. Get the nose weaving and never taxy into an enclosed space without being confident you have room. It's much safer to stop the engine and push the aircraft. Keep the stick back when taxying except when taxying downwind in strong winds when the stick should be neutral otherwise you run the risk of a gust getting under the elevator and tipping the tail up.
The approach speed is 60 knots with full flap. Exceed that by even a couple of knots and you will find it floats and makes the landing harder. Nail 60 knots and you will find it much easier to land. However, it is stable on the approach and easier than a PA28 to maintain speed. The crosswind limit in RAF sevice was 15knts. This is an airframe limit and you will find you will run out of rudder at 16 knots if you try to exceed it in a three point landing. You can increase it by 'wheeling' on and using the rudder/brake, but this is groundloop territory and your instructor shouldn't be teaching it at the conversion stage.
Groundlooping is one of the horror stories you will hear from the uninitiated. It happens because on the ground a taildragger's c of g is behind the wheels and will try to overtake the wheels if there is any drag from them. Prime groundloop conditions are light crosswinds with no headwind. Be aware of it and be prompt with the use of rudder. If it starts to go, don't be too quick to use differential brake - you will proabably exacerbate the situation. And if you do groundloop, don't worry. The aircraft is very strong and damage is unlikely with the castering tailwheel. I have experienced maybe a couple of dozen with no damage.
Be careful about using the brake lever on the ground. Use if harshly on the landing roll, you might find the tail lifting. And if you have any rudder applied when you use it, the brake will come on that side first.
You will fly aerobatics - the aircraft is designed for it and it's delightful. In the RAF syllabus, students often could fly a loop before first solo and were cleared solo aerobatics at 30 hours. However, it's not an Extra 300 and those aeros will have to be gentle. Pull lots of g at once and you will lose too much speed and use up lots of valuable height. The engine has a basic carburettor and will stop when inverted. It stops because the float goes to what is now the top of the float chamber and opens the jet fully. This leads to a 'rich cut' and too much fuel is the reason for the engine stopping. Close the throttle while inverted and you will find the engine picks up much quicker. Learn stall turns to the right first. Going left is opposing the engine rotation and much harder. If you mess up an aerobatic manouevre and think you're going to tailslide, hold the controls very firmly in the central position. If they 'snatch' to full deflection, airframe damage is probable.
The Chipmunk spin is very stable. It was cleared up to eight turns in RAF service, four turns loses you about a 1000' with another 300' for the recovery and is much more comfortable. The Chippy incipient spin stage is the first 360 degrees which is easily recoverd by centralising the controls.
Enjoy!
A few weeks later I was showing members of the Aircrew Association around Concorde G-BOAC at Manchester. I was on the flight deck chatting to one guy who, it turned out, had zillions of Chipmunk hours from his RAF service. "What would you say is the crosswind limit of the Chipmunk?" I asked him. "15 knots" came the immediate reply.
I've only once, in 27 years of Chippying, felt the tail rise unexpectantly. I was taxying on the apron in a brisk tailwind with the elevator held neutral, when, despite my feet resting on the pedals, a gust blew the rudder to full deflection. That put the brake on hard on that side, and I felt her start to rise. Rapid centralising of the rudder restored things to normal.
It is interesting what Dan says about use of brakes on the landing roll. There was some discussion (I think it was on here) a while back about the RAF insisting on landing with some brake set. I was and am very much against that, since it diminishes rudder movement. I think it's much better to have full rudder available when landing (and also when taking off - final 'brakes fully off' check before rolling), and it that's not enough, you just gently pull back the brake lever with the little finger of the left hand (don't yank it on!), holding the 'lock-on' collar down with that finger as well so you can apply and release small amounts of brake nice and easily and gently. You'll already be holding full rudder, so only the appropriate brake will be applied.
Wheelers are nice in the Chippy. With a good headwind down the runway you can actually come to a stop with the tail still up. And another trick for when you have more experience - tail-up taxying. You can taxy very fast and see where you're going with the tail up, and I do it at Liverpool if there's some distance to go to vacate the runway. But you have to be careful - that really is groundloop territory if you're not careful.
Use of T/O flap is another bone of contention among Chippy pilots. I always use one stage of flap at short field, no flap at big places like Liverpool.
Originally Posted by Shaggy Sheep Driver
There was some discussion (I think it was on here) a while back about the RAF insisting on landing with some brake set.
A330 Dreamer, I agree with all the advice here - a wonderful aircraft. The only thing better than the RAF T10 in my opinion was the RCAF version, which I flew a few times in the 70s - a bubble canopy and a heater!
Last edited by India Four Two; 21st Aug 2006 at 18:38.
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Speaking of Chippies, have any of you ever seen the photo of the Chippie RG up at Seething? 
(The photo, I mean, not the aircraft) Having the gear stored must add 20 knots to the cruise!
Pitts2112
(The photo, I mean, not the aircraft) Having the gear stored must add 20 knots to the cruise!Pitts2112
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I suspect the biggest problem is going back to another aircraft afterwards..it will seem so boring.
Learning to fly an aerobatic aircraft is addictive. You're hooked for life.
Welcome to the world of upside down.
Learning to fly an aerobatic aircraft is addictive. You're hooked for life.
Welcome to the world of upside down.
Brakes on landing.
The RAF Chippy downwind checks were Mixture - Fuel - Flaps - Harness - Hood - Brakes. And I'm sure that those of you who flew them in the Services can remember the useful mnemonic "My Friend Fred Has Hairy Balls".
For the brakes it was 'As Required'. This was to allow some differential braking control on the ground in gusty conditions. But in over a thousand hours in the Chippy, I don't think I used them once. We didn't as a rule - it just increased the risk of losing directional control by over enthusiastic use of the rudder.
So the downwnid checks were always: Brakes.....Off
For the brakes it was 'As Required'. This was to allow some differential braking control on the ground in gusty conditions. But in over a thousand hours in the Chippy, I don't think I used them once. We didn't as a rule - it just increased the risk of losing directional control by over enthusiastic use of the rudder.
So the downwnid checks were always: Brakes.....Off
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Originally Posted by Dan Winterland
For the brakes it was 'As Required'. This was to allow some differential braking control on the ground in gusty conditions. But in over a thousand hours in the Chippy, I don't think I used them once. We didn't as a rule - it just increased the risk of losing directional control by over enthusiastic use of the rudder.
So the downwnid checks were always: Brakes.....Off
So the downwnid checks were always: Brakes.....Off
I have many hours on the DHC1 and onced owned the starboard side of one - needed to sell the other side to pay for the inner wing bay mod. I should have kept t'other side as I was forever bashing the impulse mag (starboard side) with a length of timber to free the sticky mechanism for winter starts.
All de Havilland aircraft had pleasant contol characteristics but the Chipmunk has the best harmonised controls of any aircraft I have ever flown. It is an absolute delight and thirty years after parting with my own aircraft, I still miss it terribly.
Spins are great fun and the aircraft performs these well (with/without spin strakes) but as has been mentioned above, the number of turns should be limited. I never did more than four. After that the attitude flattens (upright and inverted) and when the Chippie goes flat, it stays that way. No recovery. Keep the CG as far forward as possible (full tanks help) and if you have a passenger who fancies some aeros - and if he doesn't, don't bother to take him up - stick him in the front if he is substantially heavier than you.
And remember, the PA28/Cessna 175 and similar Spam Can ilk will fly as well as they are able to and were designed to eliminate any challenges from flying the beastly things. The Chipmunk however, will always be able to "outfly" you and will present a constant spur to precision flying. Get it right and it will reward you immeasurably. Do less well and it may bite but not very hard. An absolute throroughbred.
Oh, how I envy you.
Grandpa Aerotart
I have a total of 1.5 in Chippys....logged while on holidays from my airline flying job some years ago. I had about 1000 hrs tailwheel, mostly in C185s, at the time and was just in 'withdrawal' after several weeks on holidays so I went out to Camden, SW of Sydney, and paid for some dual in one of the prettiest aeroplanes ever built.
As I turned crosswind out of the circuit in my first few minutes airborne I was unable to stop myself exclaiming "what fantastic controls!" out loud to the lady instructor in the rear seat.
40 odd minutes of aerobatics later I headed back to do some circuits...what a joy! Whether 3 pointing or wheelers the aircraft was just so 'communicative' they were easy.
Something I will have to do again. I have never struck an aircraft before or since which has controls that are so perfect....even the 'typically British' quirky brake system was easily mastered after a few minutes and just added to the joy of flying one of the best aircraft ever designed by man.
As I turned crosswind out of the circuit in my first few minutes airborne I was unable to stop myself exclaiming "what fantastic controls!" out loud to the lady instructor in the rear seat.
40 odd minutes of aerobatics later I headed back to do some circuits...what a joy! Whether 3 pointing or wheelers the aircraft was just so 'communicative' they were easy.
Something I will have to do again. I have never struck an aircraft before or since which has controls that are so perfect....even the 'typically British' quirky brake system was easily mastered after a few minutes and just added to the joy of flying one of the best aircraft ever designed by man.
Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen
Spins are great fun and the aircraft performs these well (with/without spin strakes) but as has been mentioned above, the number of turns should be limited. I never did more than four. After that the attitude flattens (upright and inverted) and when the Chippie goes flat, it stays that way. No recovery. Keep the CG as far forward as possible (full tanks help) and if you have a passenger who fancies some aeros - and if he doesn't, don't bother to take him up - stick him in the front if he is substantially heavier than you.
'After prolonged spinning (six to eight turns) a heavier push force may be necessary to effect recovery. In a stable spin, particularly when the rear seat is occupied, the aircraft may continue rotating for up to three turns after taking recovery action. During this period, the rate of rotation increases and the angle steepens before the spin stops. If the aircraft is slow to recover from the spin, the application of aileron in the direction of the roll assists normal recovery action.'
I have done lots of 8 turn spins (8 being the limit in RAF service) and never really noticed a tendancy for the spin to go flat and never had to use the delayed recovery technique. The book is correct though, when it says that delay is increased after 8 turns.
And as for the C of G, the limits are 6.48" forward to .257" aft of the datum. How do you measure that? Don't know, but suffice to say that we never checked the C of G on a daily basis. The limits were so broad there was never a problem with any combination of fat or thin crews. There was a difference in handling with different crews though. I have been known to enjoy a pint or two in my time and when I was flying the Chippy as an instructor, I weighed 95kg. One of my students could have done with a good meal and weighed no more than 50kg. This didn't affect the handling to any unacceptable degree, but the Chippy cetainly spun well with us on board!
The spin entry technique we used in the RAF was done from 50knts. At 50, full rudder was applied and the control colum was moved fully back. This led to a clean entry with a stable spin resulting. However, if the wing dropped at the fully developed stall and you applied full opposite aileron, the Chippy could enter a slow and flat - but very stable spin from which the recovery took about three turns.
And a bit of Chippy trivia while I remember it. The Chippy was designed by a Pole, Wsiewolod Jakimiuk who designed the funny looking PZL fighters that were shot down in vast numbers by the Luftwaffe when the Germans invaded Poland. He escaped to England and redeemed himself by designing the Mosquito, the Chippy's heritage is evident in the shape of the tailfin which is the same shape as the Mosquito's.
The original rudder gave poor spin recovery. So the chord was extended by a couple of inches to add extra area, hence the angled notch at the base of the trailing edge. Also, the RAF added the anti-spin strakes (similar to the Tiger Moth's) extending from the tailplane leading edge. These work by creating a vortex at high angles of attack and energising the airflow over the rudder while in the spin. But they lead to the rudder having a short delay in it's effectiveness, which is why the recommended spin recovery technique is to apply full rudder, then pause (we used 2 seconds) and then move the control column centrally forward until the spin stops.
The original rudder gave poor spin recovery. So the chord was extended by a couple of inches to add extra area, hence the angled notch at the base of the trailing edge. Also, the RAF added the anti-spin strakes (similar to the Tiger Moth's) extending from the tailplane leading edge. These work by creating a vortex at high angles of attack and energising the airflow over the rudder while in the spin. But they lead to the rudder having a short delay in it's effectiveness, which is why the recommended spin recovery technique is to apply full rudder, then pause (we used 2 seconds) and then move the control column centrally forward until the spin stops.
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I have around 50 hours in Chipmunks, mostly in the Royal Navy's "Britannia Flight" at Plymouth gained during RN service in the early 80's. I also did a few hours a couple of years ago in the Airborne Aviation machine at Camden, SW of Sydney. I now fly a Pitts S-2C and recall that, by comparison, the Chipmunk had fantastic forward visibility. Like everyone else says, the controls are beautifully harmonised, and it's one of the few basic training aircraft I still look forward to flying, even after the Pitts!
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We were taught 2 seconds, as per RAF Central Flying School.
I'd forgotten the reason, or perhaps didn't know, until I read Dan's post.
It makes a significant difference to the recovery - but, in the early stages of spin training, two seconds seemed to be a very long time.
I'd forgotten the reason, or perhaps didn't know, until I read Dan's post.
It makes a significant difference to the recovery - but, in the early stages of spin training, two seconds seemed to be a very long time.
Indeed, FL!
The Chipmunk and Bulldog have different spin recovery techniques. Which is why I hate hearing people talk about 'standard spin recovery technique'!
Solo spinning was in, then out, then in again, then out again of the solo syllabus when I was at ULAS. But one day I was authorised for solo spinning, so off I went..... All went fine - except no-one had told me about the noise made by the ends of the rear seat belt ends clouting the metal seat pan, even when knotted together in the correct manner! The unexpected banging from the back seat was something of a surprise!
The Chipmunk and Bulldog have different spin recovery techniques. Which is why I hate hearing people talk about 'standard spin recovery technique'!
Solo spinning was in, then out, then in again, then out again of the solo syllabus when I was at ULAS. But one day I was authorised for solo spinning, so off I went..... All went fine - except no-one had told me about the noise made by the ends of the rear seat belt ends clouting the metal seat pan, even when knotted together in the correct manner! The unexpected banging from the back seat was something of a surprise!
Last edited by BEagle; 22nd Aug 2006 at 08:47.
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Some years ago on another Pprune Chippie thread I commented on the super control harmonisation; if you don't really understand what that means, then go and fly a Chippie and it will become instantly apparent!
HJ - my Chippie time was an excellent springboard for progresing to the Pitts. A great aeroplane.
Stik
HJ - my Chippie time was an excellent springboard for progresing to the Pitts. A great aeroplane.
Stik
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ive never flown in a chippy, nor even sat in one, but as a child of the fifties, the chippy holds a very special place in my heart.
every time i see one, all the hairs on my neck stand up!
i often wonder why that is???
(reading these delightful posts, just gives me a nice warm glow).
what a fantastic aeroplane.
every time i see one, all the hairs on my neck stand up!
i often wonder why that is???
(reading these delightful posts, just gives me a nice warm glow).
what a fantastic aeroplane.
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Originally Posted by Shaggy Sheep Driver
Chippies have that undefinable 'smell' in the cockpit unique to British military aeroplanes of the time. If you could bottle it, you'd make a fortune.
SSD
SSD
