Some advice on my RT please

[SparkyBoy]

Hi,

I'm only a few lessons away from the circuit and then solo and I've still not really got to grips with my RT conversations.

I know what I'm supposed to say, but when it comes out I often get things wrong, for example saying "Oh" instead of "Zero" and if anything is not a standard request I appear to get in a funk over it and the instructor takes over.

I'm not a particularly nervous person, and really shouldnt have stage fright!

Has anyone got any hints or tips?


Thanks

Sparky

[AerBabe]

Practise!

Get together with someone else at a similar phase and take turns playing the parts of the piot and ATC. I know it sounds daft, but it helps if you know what reply to expect to your call. And practise making calls in your car, or on the bus - ask for departure info/clearance, make position reports etc etc.

Also, get a scanner and listen! Don't spend a fortune though.

[mazzy1026]

Hi Sparky

This is very common indeed, something which we have all done. The hardest part is the so called 'radio freeze' when you hit the button and then, well, freeze!

There is no quick way around this other than practise, however here a few tips which seemed to work for me:

1) Write down all the common calls, I.e. request taxi, depart, landing clearance etc and have them to hand when flying (not so good in the circuit, as a lot of it can be just casual English) but when you get to the Navigation stage this will help a lot.

2) If you drive a car (I know this might seem a little sad) just mumble to yourself the radio calls as you go along and eventually you will remember them no problem.

You will get to the stage also, when you know what the controller will say back to you, so you can pretty much write down the entire conversation for a flight, before you even leave the clubhouse!

Finally, study the material and in a few more hours time, have a go at the RT course, which is challenging, but extremely helpful. Other than that, enjoy it and don't worry too much about it - it will all fall into place!

Best of luck,

Maz

[Pitts2112]

Yeah. Stop worrying about it. You're a student. People will know that as soon as you key the mic. They'll cut you some slack. Just think about what you want to say before you transmit and if you miss anything, you'll be asked.

And fly the airplane through the controls - not the radio!

If I could open up Wylie's School of Flying, I'd keep the radio off until a student was getting ready for his first solo Xcountry...and I'd teach initial skills in a Cub at a grass strip...but that's my fantasy and probably not your reality.

Radio's a lot easier than we think it is.

Pitts2112

[AerBabe]

Read my article on RT in a recent issue of Today's Pilot.

[Mercenary Pilot]

Did you know that as soon as you press that little button...it instantly attacks the part of the brain which gives humans the power of speech . What you’re talking about happens to everyone so don’t worry about it.

Seriously though, practice is the key. Good RT is an asset, there’s nothing that pi$$es me off like someone umming and errring while the controller is trying to turn me onto base, a localizer intercept or an issue a landing clearance.

Good RT gets you across control zones, your RT is the only indicator of your general ability to ATC. If you sound like a muppet, there’s a good chance the controller will think you will botch a transit clearance so may not issue one. Which means it’s the long way round for you .

[gcolyer]

Originally Posted by SparkyBoy

Hi,

"Oh" instead of "Zero"

Sparky

I had this trouble when i joined the army. When it came to getting paid during basic training, you would have to march up to your commanding officer, slute, state your name rank and number. All fairly easy i thought....until i said "Oh" in stead of "Zero"..at this point you get told in a ...unsocial manner where to go and if i want paying next week to remember "Oh" is a letter and "zero" is a number. I soon learnt.

Not really sure how this will help your RT though.

Practice is all it will take for you. I was the same, my first few solo circuits were diabolical on the radio, after that it starts to fall in to place.

Try to anticipate what ATC shuld be saying to you and keep your transmissions as short and to the point as possible. If you don't give enough info or the right info they will ask you for it.

It is just a matter of time and doing it for yoruself.

[DeeCee]

If I could open up Wylie's School of Flying, I'd keep the radio off until a student w

What is Wylie's School of Flying?

[ronnie3585]

The best bit of advise i ever got about RT is as simple as it is practical - for the most part RT is echoing i.e. no. 1 call finals etc.

Its easy for me to say, but try to relax.
Be confident in what you are saying. I find if you sound confident the controller thinks you actually know what you're talking about!

Above all never forget to Aviate Navigate Communicate.

[mazzy1026]

Oh (zero ) and if your unsure of something or didn't hear what was said - NEVER be afraid to ask for clarification:

"If in doubt - shout"

[BroomstickPilot]

R/T Course

Sparky,

Is there an R/T groundschool course where you are? If so, I would suggest you join it.

It is so much easier to learn R/T in a properly equipped classroom, with a good R/T instructor, where you are not trying to control an aeroplane with your other hand and both legs, and you are not spending £2 per minute.

Good luck,

Broomstick.

[splatt]

I haven't been flying for quite some time, but looking at getting back into my training in the next couple of months. When I left off I was always worried about getting my phraseology wrong very much like the original poster.

Just wondering if, in the interim, any of those radio telephony audio CDs that the pilot shops sell are any good? I do about an hour of driving every day. Perhaps I could use this time by practicing with these CDs. Anyone have any experience of them?

splatt

[Mercenary Pilot]

Splatt

I think there is a company called airspeak who produce that kind of product

[Pitts2112]

Originally Posted by DeeCee

What is Wylie's School of Flying?

That would be the flying school I would set up if I didn't have to pay for important things like food and shoes and stuff where I would teach people to fly the way I think it ought to be taught, based solely on my experience as a PPL, not as an instructor (notice nice little disclaimer there to ward off the inevitable flames?)

Wylie's School of Flying
A Two-Chapter fantasy in several parts:

A few provisos:

I would be teaching people who weren't necessarily headed for a professional track but were more interested in grass strip, grass-roots, vintage flying on a summer evening, followed by a tall glass of iced tea under the tree the airplane is parked next to. And sitting under said tree with a half dozen mates talking about flying as much as doing it. With an old barn/hangar/workshop just behind said tree with a few old taildraggers and a truly odd collection of airplane parts, old car bits, and old license plates screwed to the wall going back to whenever.

Chapter One: Where the Student first gets into the air and then gets rid of the instructor:

I would teach people from scratch up to Xcountry in a vintage taildragger like a Cub or, even better, a Taylorcraft. No radio, no systems, no tower, no airspace - in short, no "aviating", just flying like it used to be taught. This way students could learn the feel of the airplane without all the distractions of the modern environment. They'd learn proper stick and rudder skills that they'd never forget and that only a taildragger can teach. I'd use retired guys, or weekend pilots, as instructors; they would be teaching because they wanted to and would be focussed on the student more than their interview with an airline. I'd teach them at a grass strip, or at least an uncontrolled airport where NORDO traffic was the norm so they'd learn to see and avoid and not be distracted by the noise-maker in their headsets. Here they'd spend their time until they were ready to leave the nest and start doing their cross-countries. We'd teach all the weather stuff here, too, so students could start using their own judgement about whether they should be flying or not and how the day would likely turn out.

Chapter Two: Where the Student flies the coop once, then once and for all.

At the point a student knows how to fly and how to read the weather man's tea leaves, he then needs to learn how to aviate - how to operate with other aircraft around, maneuver the complexities of airspace, and talk to people on the ground. From here I'd transition them into something more practical for the purpose, say a new two-seat trainer or something with a few radio nav-aids and GPS fitted. That's when we'd start flying into other airports with more traffic, with radio requirements, dealing with airspace and navigation skills, doing the cross countries and preparing to take the GFT.

There's more to the philosophy but that, in a nutshell, is how I'd prefer to run a flying school. I'd probably go broke doing it, but it's how I think it ought to be done, for that kind of hobby flying.

Pitts2112.

[planeenglish]

Originally Posted by splatt

I haven't been flying for quite some time, but looking at getting back into my training in the next couple of months. When I left off I was always worried about getting my phraseology wrong very much like the original poster.
Just wondering if, in the interim, any of those radio telephony audio CDs that the pilot shops sell are any good? I do about an hour of driving every day. Perhaps I could use this time by practicing with these CDs. Anyone have any experience of them?
splatt

Hi splatt and sparkyboy,

Airspeak is a book (with audio tapes) that has been out of print for ages. It was written by Fiona Robertson. (She is being pushed by the aviation english community to make a revamped version.) It is difficult to find, expensive when you do find it and a bit out of date but teaches the basics and is structured quite effectively.

Wlico, English for VFR pilots volume 1 is a pretty good cd rom source.

AOPA has some excellent free courses on line http://www.aopa.org/asf/online_courses/
I learned R/T and have taught it in the classroom with professional pilots for years (my job being a purely linguistic aspect). I have recently started studying for my PPL and found myself freezing up when I needed to make a communication. I believe you can spend any amount of money you want but it may just be a waste, get in there and try.

I discussed this exact topic with my instructor at length Sunday past. His response was "it is my job as an instructor to know when you can and can not make a communication due you are busy flying. I have you begin making radio calls from your first flight but do not expect you to make them all."

Best,

PE

[FlyingForFun]

All excellent advice so far. (Pitts... if you ever find that you can live off of Super Noodles and you've got all the shoes a man can reasonably need - surely two pairs is enough for any man? - and you open your flying school, drop me a PM if you need an instructor!)

One thing to add, though, is to arrange a visit to an air traffic control unit. Partly to see what goes on up there.... but also to realise that the voices on the other end of the radio are just people. If all else fails, try talking English to them, and there's a reasonable chance they'll understand you. They know that "oh" means "zero", they almost certainly don't say "decimal" (or even "deysimal") anywhere near as much as they ought to themselves, and they like to believe that they are there to help, not to intimidate.

Good luck with the rest of your flying!

FFF
-----------

[J.A.F.O.]

Try eBay for the RT CD or tapes - I bought them during my training, listened to them in the car and then sold them back for more than I'd paid.

Pitts - Please PM or email me with an application form for your club, any man who can read my dreams deserves my support.

[RudeNot2]

I just completed my forst solo this morning and god only knows how I can stil type..

The rt is something you pick up on quite quickly.. I have completed about 14 - 15 hours and cxxked up one call during my solo..

Best of luck mate - it will come..

Dave

[Whirlygig]

Where do think my personal title came from?

I had a complete brain freeze at the point where I had just almost maybe possibly got the hang of hovering. I was then told to ask Tower for a right hand circuit. I got as far as half the call-sign and then the only word that came out was "FFuuuuuuuu......."

You get the picture - I'm sure it amused the captain of the KLM flight that was about to take off!

Cheers

Whirls

[Pitts2112]

FFF and JAFO,

Thanks for the support. Keep your eyes open for lottery winners. If my name appears, send in your CVs immediately!

Oh, by the way, do you have your own BBQ grills (mandatory for the hangar chat after beer o'clock under the tree)? I suppose we could pitch in and by one for the company.

We wouldn't make any money, but we'd teach people to fly properly and we'd have a hell of a lot of fun doing it.

Pitts2112
Future owner of Wylie's Flying School