Clueless Kemble.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I spoke today to Mike Sparrow, Ops Manager at Kemble. He has confirmed that the info about everyone wearing hi-viz was sent to based operators only and does not apply to visitors.
For visitors he wants one person in the group to be wearing hi-viz while airside and he wants them to keep the group together. His concern has been that in the past groups of "escorted" visitors have not been kept togther and have straggled all over the place. You can see that a group of schoolkids or (even worse) photocopier salesmen on a corporate jolly being walked between AV8 and the hangars could cause some worry as they pass the fuel point and taxying aircraft or helos with rotors turning.
I've suggested that he needs to deal with the problem using different wording and by changing teh rules relating to groups. After all hi-viz won't prevent someone who is going to walk into rotating machinery from doing so.
Constructive suggestions to [email protected] (sending abuse will only prevent the good ideas from being seen)
Personally I don't think it should be necessary for pilots or passengers to wear hi-viz while transferring from aircraft to landside and vice versa. However if someone wants to go further than that, e.g. to do some photography with permission then I don't think it unreasonable that they should be suitably attired to improve their visibility from the tower.
For visitors he wants one person in the group to be wearing hi-viz while airside and he wants them to keep the group together. His concern has been that in the past groups of "escorted" visitors have not been kept togther and have straggled all over the place. You can see that a group of schoolkids or (even worse) photocopier salesmen on a corporate jolly being walked between AV8 and the hangars could cause some worry as they pass the fuel point and taxying aircraft or helos with rotors turning.
I've suggested that he needs to deal with the problem using different wording and by changing teh rules relating to groups. After all hi-viz won't prevent someone who is going to walk into rotating machinery from doing so.
Constructive suggestions to [email protected] (sending abuse will only prevent the good ideas from being seen)
Personally I don't think it should be necessary for pilots or passengers to wear hi-viz while transferring from aircraft to landside and vice versa. However if someone wants to go further than that, e.g. to do some photography with permission then I don't think it unreasonable that they should be suitably attired to improve their visibility from the tower.
Avoid imitations
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"For visitors he wants one person in the group to be wearing hi-viz while airside and he wants them to keep the group together. His concern has been that in the past groups of "escorted" visitors have not been kept togther and have straggled all over the place. You can see that a group of schoolkids or (even worse) photocopier salesmen on a corporate jolly being walked between AV8 and the hangars could cause some worry as they pass the fuel point and taxying aircraft or helos with rotors turning."
Seems to me that keeping people in one group has little to do wiith the requirement to wear hi-viz vests!
Seems to me that keeping people in one group has little to do wiith the requirement to wear hi-viz vests!
PPruNaholic!
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An I bet that the visitors / groups / Japanese tourists / Brownie packs etc they are thinking of don't even read the AIP, so why publish a regulation to deal with the safety of that audience in EGBP AD 2.20 http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/p...es/302BP01.PDF -- how many girl guides read that then!?
Andy
Andy
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Wedding
There's a wedding on at AV8 today, that should make for some nice pictures. Hope the bride doesn't forget something old, something new, something borrowed, something in fetching Dayglo Yellow
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Nice one!
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something old, something new, something borrowed, something in fetching Dayglo Yellow
something old
something borrowed
something in fetching dayglo yellow
all in one
She mightn't be too happy about it though.
dp
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" So should we wait for there to be a case ? Do you guys also object to switching on your beacon ? "
A beacon is effective during low light and night time operations.
During bright daylight hours the airplane will be visable long before you see the beacon.
Chuck E.
A beacon is effective during low light and night time operations.
During bright daylight hours the airplane will be visable long before you see the beacon.
Chuck E.
I am having difficulty trying to understand the vehemence and vitriol that is being expressed on this thread about the wearing of high visibility jackets.
I have been required to wear a high visibility jacket when airside on most major airports that I have operated into and out of for the last 10 or 15 years so I suppose it has become second nature.
At first I thought it was a bit of an imposition but my opinion got changed when three colleagues got mowed down by a van on the ramp at Brussels one night. They were wearing black uniforms. They were all badly hurt and the captain never flew again.
Now I agree that this happened at night on a busy ramp on an international airfield but the fact that the captain had his flying career cut short by this struck a note with me.
I have loved flying aeroplanes ever since I went solo in 1957 and if wearing a bit of dayglo keeps me just a little bit safer and helps me to carry on flying privately then I will wear it happily even if a little bit reluctantly.
I have been required to wear a high visibility jacket when airside on most major airports that I have operated into and out of for the last 10 or 15 years so I suppose it has become second nature.
At first I thought it was a bit of an imposition but my opinion got changed when three colleagues got mowed down by a van on the ramp at Brussels one night. They were wearing black uniforms. They were all badly hurt and the captain never flew again.
Now I agree that this happened at night on a busy ramp on an international airfield but the fact that the captain had his flying career cut short by this struck a note with me.
I have loved flying aeroplanes ever since I went solo in 1957 and if wearing a bit of dayglo keeps me just a little bit safer and helps me to carry on flying privately then I will wear it happily even if a little bit reluctantly.
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JW411
The HI-Vis thing Will have no efect in the day time and will only lul you into a false sence of security.
I speak as one who had NO hi-vis for 10 years on the ramp at LHR night and day for 10 years without incident. Then the first day that the H & S gods make me put one of these miracle anti accident vests on I come very close to getting run down as JSY at 0600 on a sunday (day light).
I think that after dark and in poor vis these things have there place but dont fool your self that on a nice day the hi-vis is worth the effort of putting it on.
I like the greek islands.......... real flying and no one gives a flying f**k about the H&S bull !!.
I speak as one who had NO hi-vis for 10 years on the ramp at LHR night and day for 10 years without incident. Then the first day that the H & S gods make me put one of these miracle anti accident vests on I come very close to getting run down as JSY at 0600 on a sunday (day light).
I think that after dark and in poor vis these things have there place but dont fool your self that on a nice day the hi-vis is worth the effort of putting it on.
I like the greek islands.......... real flying and no one gives a flying f**k about the H&S bull !!.
JW411,
I can't speak for anyone else but my particular bit of "vitriol" is based on the Kemble requirement that ALL occupants of an aircraft have to wear dayglo. This at a place where most visiting aircraft park within a few yards of the gate. If you want to go off somewhere for the day you have to carry them around, a lot of inconvenience for no real benefit.
If you don't all wear them in the aircraft, in the time it takes to get everyone out and suitably clothed, you could be waiting for your coffee in the restaurant.
Anyway, I am not going to equip the aircraft with more than one jacket just so that I can go to Kemble (I know of nowhere else I am likely to go who has this ridiculous rule) so I guess it will be off limits for me.
I can't speak for anyone else but my particular bit of "vitriol" is based on the Kemble requirement that ALL occupants of an aircraft have to wear dayglo. This at a place where most visiting aircraft park within a few yards of the gate. If you want to go off somewhere for the day you have to carry them around, a lot of inconvenience for no real benefit.
If you don't all wear them in the aircraft, in the time it takes to get everyone out and suitably clothed, you could be waiting for your coffee in the restaurant.
Anyway, I am not going to equip the aircraft with more than one jacket just so that I can go to Kemble (I know of nowhere else I am likely to go who has this ridiculous rule) so I guess it will be off limits for me.
...got mowed down by a van on the ramp at Brussels one night. They were wearing black uniforms.
One thing that grips me is seeing all these GA aircrew wearing the nice flammable bits of dayglo nylon when in the aircraft. Frankly, that seems a hazard they could do without.
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Dropped into Kemble for go go juice, whereas normally you'd never notice, my eyes were fixated upon the piles of hi-viz's waiting for happy shoppers!
Not sure whether the marquee was left over from a wedding or a dayglo catwalk show?
Not sure whether the marquee was left over from a wedding or a dayglo catwalk show?
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Originally Posted by JW411
I am having difficulty trying to understand the vehemence and vitriol that is being expressed on this thread about the wearing of high visibility jackets.
At first I thought it was a bit of an imposition but my opinion got changed when three colleagues got mowed down by a van on the ramp at Brussels one night.
At first I thought it was a bit of an imposition but my opinion got changed when three colleagues got mowed down by a van on the ramp at Brussels one night.
Given the tragedy you describe can happen to anyone, anywhere, at anytime, presumably you are an advocate of the compulsory wearing of Hi-Vis by everyone, everywhere, at all times.
PPruNaholic!
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I received a very nice email reply from the chaps at Kemble giving their perspective, and saying that they hope I will visit again. I have undertaken not to copy/paste the email here but suffice to say I think the issue has more to do with how they have communicated than what they intend, which seems not to be as draconian as the amended AIP entry makes it sound.
Anyway, I am very pleased with the responsiveness to my email and so, in a spirit of goodwill, I intend to call by for brunch and a chat on Saturday on my way down to the west country.
Andy
Anyway, I am very pleased with the responsiveness to my email and so, in a spirit of goodwill, I intend to call by for brunch and a chat on Saturday on my way down to the west country.
Andy
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Are they asking you to wear a day-glo blouse.....?
Seriously though, I can see where this has come from, in this most litigious age. I can only hope that things calm down a bit over the next few months and this issue simply fades away.
Andy, I see you fly with BAFC where I learnt a few summes back. I've now bought G-AYIG which is northside; I'm trying to find some flying buddies in that part of the world, so let me know if you want to meet for a beer some time.
Seriously though, I can see where this has come from, in this most litigious age. I can only hope that things calm down a bit over the next few months and this issue simply fades away.
Andy, I see you fly with BAFC where I learnt a few summes back. I've now bought G-AYIG which is northside; I'm trying to find some flying buddies in that part of the world, so let me know if you want to meet for a beer some time.
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This is a serious result of EU/UK HASW paranoia; coupled with the "I will sue the bum off you mentality". For this to be a serious expectation at an aerodrome is a sad reflection of the society we seem to have voted for.
