FIS between Gatwick & London

[Martin @ EGLK]

I'm planning a flight from Blackbushe to Headcorn routing between London & Gatwick and was wondering who the best peeps to speak to for some useful FIS.

Any advice?

[eglk01]

Farnborough for starters 125.25.
Cheers.

[SATCO Biggin]

Give us a shout on the way past.

Biggin Approach 129.40mhz.

Most people follow the 'concrete QDM' (the M25) south abeam us. And keep a look out for Kenley gliding site to the west of Biggin as they get upset by people flying overhead.

[Fuji Abound]

Farnborough will give you a FIS or RIS.

You should get the same from Gatwick to the north if they are not to busy.

You might like to talk to Redhill in view of the proximity of their circuit. Have a look at their entry an exit route which will give you a good indication of where any traffic will be.

Finally on to Headcorn. You will know they are very often active with parachuting. if you have not been there before it can be disconcerting to see one above you on final!

[Martin @ EGLK]

Farnborough was the 1st name on my list. I'm not too sure how far into the "gap" they cover. Then again, I know the radar has a long reach.

I guess I could listen to LGW & see if they're busy.

I was planning on routing towards your VOR SATCO, cutting the corner & following one out towards Headcorn. How far out would you like me to call in from?

I've not long done my tailwheel & some aero's (the reason I'm returning) at Headcorn & have got used to doing cct's between para's. I agree - very disconcerting at first.

Tx for the advice re Redhill. Will look up.

[chevvron]

Don't forget for the next two weeks there'll be TRA between Blackbushe and Headcorn; ask your airport authority for details of Blackbushe entry/exit procedures; be aware that at some times, there is a minimum P i/c requirement.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by Martin @ EGLK

Farnborough was the 1st name on my list. I'm not too sure how far into the "gap" they cover. Then again, I know the radar has a long reach. I guess I could listen to LGW & see if they're busy.
I was planning on routing towards your VOR SATCO, cutting the corner & following one out towards Headcorn. How far out would you like me to call in from? Tx for the advice re Redhill.

Once upon a time an internal Farnborough LARS coverage chart existed for the guidance of Farnborough ATC. Chevvron should remember this. I recall it extended westwards as far as Epsom Racecourse. East of that one is within 10D of BIG which used to be the yardstick for EGKB Approach Control Service. Probably still is, SATCO Biggin may be out there to confirm. One usually needs 7.5 miles to get a word in anyway on 129.4 before the ATZ. I don't believe EGKR Aerodrome Control Service would be the slightest bit interested outside their ATZ. Gatwick Approach does not provide a LARS service. Listening on the radio won't tell you if they are busy, they do actually have one or two other tasks not least of which is telephone coordination which, of course, you will not hear. Gatwick probably won't want to be bothered by somebody tootling along MiG Alley as wouldn't Heathrow. In your own interest MISS KENLEY. It has no ATZ but one has a serious 'duty of care' to avoid such notified gliding sites. Kenley is notified up to the base of CAS. Don't expect any soft radar unit to weave you around the gliders, they are more difficult to see on the radar than by looking out of the window. Why not keep your workload down, get a FIS/RIS from Farnborough, then call Biggin at Epsom racecource. If you cannot get an ATZ transit then tightly follow the M25 to the south. Alternatively you could say Goodbye to Blackbushe Information and enjoy a quiet life outside regulated airspace just looking out of the window, glancing occasionally at the Ts and Ps, and then call Headcorn around West Malling.

[mark147]

Originally Posted by Talkdownman

I don't believe EGKR Aerodrome Control Service would be the slightest bit interested outside their ATZ.

Possibly not. They will know something about their local traffic though, and if you're following the M25, you'll be going right over one of their reporting points (the M23 junction); your whereabouts might interest other inbounds/outbounds from Redhill.

Mark

[chevvron]

Dividing line used to be notified as 'a line joining Battersea Heliport and Gatwick' (just the bit outside controlled airspace!). The map we had also included the divide between Farnborough and Dunsfold LARS.
Who's this Miss Kenley you're on about?

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by mark147

Possibly not. They will know something about their local traffic though, and if you're following the M25, you'll be going right over one of their reporting points (the M23 junction); your whereabouts might interest other inbounds/outbounds from Redhill.
Mark

Maybe PW or FH at KR ATC will post comment. I can't believe that they would be bothered about itinerant traffic in MiG Alley.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by chevvron

Who's this Miss Kenley you're on about?

She's the one in 'Angels One Five' who got orf with Elfin 2, old boy....

[umbongo]

same question, but to the north of the heathrow CTR.

if you're flying to elstree for example, or taking the VFR route between luton and stansted, who will give you a RIS or FIS - Luton?

[Talkdownman]

Luton is not a participating LARS unit. In fact, none of the LTCC approach Control Units are participating LARS units. London Information is the only unit obliged to provide FIS in that area, and then only in accordance with ENR 1-1-2-1.

[chevvron]

Just think, all these Raytheon ASR 10 radars around the London area and spare consoles at Farnborough, but no effective LARS north or south east of the Heathrow/Gatwick area (east as well unless Southend get SSR). But then who would pay if the radars were linked together and piped to Farnborough to provide 'superlars'?

[Talkdownman]

Plus the Emergency Dispersal Facility (..or whatever it is called this week....) at Heathrow. All those lovely tubes on standby! Could be put to good use as a 'London Low-level' Super-LARS facility until needed by LTCC in an emergency, which ain't very often. Could be 'manned' by old retired ex-LARS duffers/geriatric pilots on lesser medicals who could reside in the 'Heathrow CTB Hotel'.........
But who is gonna pay you and me, Chevvron?? Air Regulation Enforcement Department Penalties Fund??

[Fuji Abound]

I have very rarely had a problem with a radar service from Gatwick .

It is almost as rare to have a problem with a service from Farnborough.

In the majority of instances you wont need a service becasue the viz is reasonable.

However, there are occasions when the provision of a service greatly assists with flight safety. A very good example might be the return flight into a setting sun.

If you need a service ask for it and tell the controller why. It is your responsibility to take any steps you consider necessary to facilitate the safe conduct of the flight. God help us but if you have a near miss that could have been avoided becasue a serivce was requested and refused and last you will know you asked.

[Roffa]

Originally Posted by umbongo

same question, but to the north of the heathrow CTR.

if you're flying to elstree for example, or taking the VFR route between luton and stansted, who will give you a RIS or FIS - Luton?

During their hours of operation, I would speak to Northolt.

Not a LARS unit either but a much better bet than GW or SS.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by Porco Rosso

During their hours of operation, I would speak to Northolt. Not a LARS unit either but a much better bet than GW or SS.

Yes, Plenty of spare capacity.........

[chevvron]

-And they need something to do with all those VHF frequencies!

[egbt]

Originally Posted by chevvron

...; be aware that at some times, there is a minimum P i/c requirement.

Where does it say that? can't see it in the AIC