VFR Communication

[drauk]

Find a small - but perferably busy - airfield which has volunteers on the radio.

This might be a good idea for someone who is just generally inexperienced or nervous about RT, but the poster is comfortable with RT in the US, just not in the UK. Visiting one small airfield won't get you used to zone transits, MATZ penetration, flying at a controlled airfield etc, so is of very limited use in this case.

How many units was this tested with? Was it tested outside the UK? For starters, Timothy would have had a Mode C transponder. Did he tell them it was an Aztec or did he pretend to be a Warrior?

The idea was to try the different combinations, with the junior pilot in both a rented PA28 and Timbothy's Aztec, then Timothy in both planes too. They were going to try Thames and Luton and a couple of others. However, the junior guy in the PA28 got let through everywhere so they never did the rest of the flights. It was published in Flyer, though I expect the big man himself could furnish you with the details.

Not that my own experience proves anything but I've never heard someone with poor RT being denied a transit and within a short amount of time someone with good RT being granted one.

[Whirlybird]

This might be a good idea for someone who is just generally inexperienced or nervous about RT, but the poster is comfortable with RT in the US, just not in the UK. Visiting one small airfield won't get you used to zone transits, MATZ penetration, flying at a controlled airfield etc, so is of very limited use in this case.

I disagree. If you're really comfortable with RT, the fact that the terminology is different is no big deal; you simply learn the new terminology. It's not like it's in a foreign language; it's just different words. Practice in becoming totally comfortable with communicating on the radio, in the same way as you would on the phone or in your own home for instance, is what this is all about. Once you're comfortable in this way, it's easy and quick to learn what to say in each situation, in each country.

[drauk]

I was just going on what the original poster said - that it was the US UK differences that were bothering them. Not sure that we can infer they are either comfortable or uncomfortable with RT in general from that.

[IO540]

Drauk

Of course I wouldn't doubt your actual results; however I wouldn't like to bet on extrapolating it to scenarios beyond the common UK "a PPL asking for a Luton transit" type of thing.

Especially to outside the UK, Class C transits at 5k-10k feet, etc. I've been in situations where it was apparent that they expected you to be right on the ball, or you got nothing. One is speaking to the foreign equivalent of London Control, who give you exactly 5 seconds to deliver the goods

I also think that IFR navigation (but VFR flight) is worth brownie points; asking for a VOR-VOR leg across the piece of CAS suggests the pilot knows what he's doing.

[Kolibear]

You only have to say three things on the radio

1. Who you are (eg G-XXXX C150)

2. Where you are (eg 5 miles east, 2000' QNH 1001)

3. What you want to do ( eg request joining instructions0

2 key words to remember - 'Standby' & 'Say again'

[IO540]

Is the pilot allowed to say "standby"? I am curious; got a bollocking for it from an instructor once.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Originally Posted by IO540

Is the pilot allowed to say "standby"? I am curious; got a bollocking for it from an instructor once.

?? - if the controller had just asked you for, say, your ETA at some point you weren't expecting to be asked about, and you had to take a few seconds to work out the answer, would your instructor had preferred you to just remain silent and not answer the call, or to reply with "um er just a minute" thus tying up the frequency whilst you worked it out??

[172driver]

Originally Posted by IO540

Is the pilot allowed to say "standby"? I am curious; got a bollocking for it from an instructor once.

Of course you are. Never forget that the controller is providing a service to you .

[n5296s]

Originally Posted by Kolibear

You only have to say three things on the radio...

In the UK they also seem to want to know where you came from and where you're going. I was asked for this when I forgot to give it. No idea what they do with it, especially the where you came from bit.

n5296s

[IO540]

Agreed, but I would have actually said "give me 30 seconds". Learn something every day

I do wonder why they want desparture/dest; this is the case everywhere I've been to in Europe, when VFR. Probably because VFR flight plans don't get distributed other than to dep/dest and occassionally enroute FIS, so most people you speak to have no idea where you are from, etc.

[Whirlybird]

"Standby" and "say again" are extremely useful. Though it's worth remembering that London Information almost always want an ETA, so you'll have it when they ask. However, they are entirely happy with "in approximately 30 minutes", if you haven't worked it out. And if you're crossing the channel, they'll want an ETA at the FIR boundary. Judging by the number of times I hear them say "Let me know when you have it" on a sumy weekend day, not a lot of pilots know that.

Why do they want departure and destination? I don't know exactly...where are our ATC people when we need them? But presumably, it gives them an idea of your route, and maybe who to pass you on to or suggest you talk to. Also, if you have an accident, they'll know who to contact...if you just left your home airfield anyway. And if you didn't, the last airfield will know where you came from before that, etc.

[Julian]

Of course ... "Standby" sounds a damn site better than "Erm....Arr......Errr......"

[skydriller]

Though it's worth remembering that London Information almost always want an ETA..... they'll want an ETA at the FIR boundary. Judging by the number of times I hear them say "Let me know when you have it" on a sumy weekend day, not a lot of pilots know that.

Yup, I didnt know that and was asked by London info over the weekend, couldnt snap back with an answer either as it didnt figure as needed in my plan, plus the 'ETE Next' on the trusty GPS was cherbourg, not the FIR boundry....

Regards, SD..

[Hawabaaz1]

Just to add, i am not uncomfortable with RT in general. My only concern is the fact that unlike in America we are expected to give away our life history to the controllers . But you guys are right.. i should just write everything down and practice it.

Also wanted to find out how accurate one has to be with the ETAs & ETEs? Cheers.

[tmmorris]

Have to say that I try to get the ETAs within 3-4 minutes and often call with a correction if I've b@llsed up - but the latter is usually greeted with bemusement, so I guess they aren't that bothered. Undoubtedly more important when on London Info, though.

Can't see why people don't know to work out an ETA for the FIR boundary - that requirement is written in lots of places (including, I seem to remember, the guidance notes for writing a flight plan - don't you have to put ETE/LFFFxxxx in the remarks?)

Tim

[SparkyBoy]

You could try online, the closest to the UK RT communications I could find was Dublin a/p. Same RT protocol and style tbh.

I was listening in online to some US ATC conversations (Seattle I think) and I'm surprised they get any traffic moved at all. The ATCR was telling the pilot about a great little cafe at the airport and told him his favourite item on the menu.

Cheers

Sparky

[n5296s]

Originally Posted by SparkyBoy

I was listening in online to some US ATC conversations (Seattle I think) and I'm surprised they get any traffic moved at all. The ATCR was telling the pilot about a great little cafe at the airport and told him his favourite item on the menu.

It's pretty rare to hear this kind of thing in the US, in my experience anyway. If things are very quiet then you might get a sentence or two. Other pilots following the right procedure (more or less) but v e r y s l ow l y are a bigger problem. If you're on a busy freq like Norcal around SFO & SJC or for that matter Palo Alto tower on the weekend, there is no time for anything extraneous.

n5296s