Glou idiot !

[tangovictor]

I payed a small fortune today, and visited Kemble Airshow with some freinds , an excellent show. The only problem being an IDIOT flying into Kemble Air space, during the red arrows display, apparently, he would not answer any radio calls, and eventually the Arrows had to abandon the end of there show,
So, if it was you, flying near Kemble at approx 5pm ish, well done, fool,

[The Nr Fairy]

The CAA take a dim view of people flying into any TRA, but especially one established for the Red Arrows - a year or so ago a Belgian was prosecuted.

See here for the thread at the time.

[EastMids]

As someone who did the same as the original poster - went to the air show at Kemble - (and coincidentally spent quite some time planning a flight to avoid the Queen's birthday flypast on Saturday) I couldn't agree more. What tossers the two who apparently infringed the TRA for the Red Arrows are. Sad when it comes to GA-against-GA, but in cases like this some of the GA community just don't seem to want to help themselves.

Andy

[IO540]

A possibly interesting project would be to visit his instructor and find out whether getting notams (which is not really practical other than through the internet) was taught

[Roffa]

I believe the telephone was invented a little while before the internet.

There's no good reason for not calling 0500 354 802 at the very least.

Sorry, no excuses for the Kemble infringers.

[microlight AV8R]

I'm worried by these all too regular infringements. Apart from the obvious safety concerns I fear a knee-jerk reaction by the authorities. Draconian rules could end up being introduced and the rest of us will suffer.
Maybe some people would suggest more publicity should be circulated about these events, but there really is no excuse as the air law syllabus makes the importance of NOTAMs abundently clear. Very frustrating to keep seeing reports of this nature.

[Aussie Andy]

Well I flew into Kemble around 15:30 and departed just after 16:00 LT on Saturday -- even on Saturday there was quite a bit of actitiviy there, and you'd have to be blind Freddy to miss the NOTAMs affecting Kemble & South Cerney. It really does beggar belief - I can only imagine some people really do just get in their aeroplanes and go without checking anything... If it were a case of "unsure of position" then in that vicinity either Brize or Lyneham would assist readily, and if they were too busy there's always 121.5. Gives us all a bad name...

[J.A.F.O.]

I'm worried that microlight AV8R is right; the all too regular infringements could easily lead to a knee jerk reaction by the government - particularly as that is their speciality.

Come down hard on those that do it, take their licences away, require 5 hours with an instructor and a full GFT before they get them back.

And, if I'm ever stupid enough to do it, then so be it.

I'd like to also thank the red pig for a reminder that the telephone still exists and the whole world doesn't have to have t'internet.

[IO540]

Will 0500 354 802 deliver a route briefing, along a route where you specify a number of waypoints, including IFR waypoints?

Come down hard on those that do it, take their licences away, require 5 hours with an instructor and a full GFT before they get them back

First task would be to find an instructor who teaches pilots to get notams. Far from common, IME.

[Alvin Steele]

It sounded to me like the same perpetrator making repeated infringements.
The leader was heard to say after the first intrusion......"the intruders back again" suggesting it was the same aircraft rather than another blundering through the TRA.
I even wondered if it was deliberate after the third and final breach of the TRA, twas sad to have to end the show on a low note but the public seemed to understand and still applauded the team after they landed.........wonder if they are as forgiving about PPL's? this was another dent to GA's credibility and I felt thoroughly embarrassed as a PPL watching the farce unfold.

[Aussie Andy]

How much of the show was flown and how much had to be cancelled, out of curiosity, e.g. 50/50?

Andy

[Alvin Steele]

It got to the 'Heart and Spear' section (2 aircraft draw the heart and the 3rd spears it) when the intruder was first spotted, the three jets cleared out with the intention of having another go........but abandoned that, next the 'corkscrew' went out the window too......so, maybe about 50% of a display......it was after the third sighting when Red1 called it a day.
The downside for the Reds is that anyone out of earshot of the commentary would have thought it a f$%k up on the part of the team because infringers aren't always visible to the viewing public (unlike the Eastbourne fiasco) and so yesterdays probs wouldnt be readily apparent.

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers -- I suppose another danger is that the Reds themselves might become less interested in displaying at such events, God forbid, should they deem the risk unacceptable... lets hope not.

[Roffa]

Originally Posted by IO540

Will 0500 354 802 deliver a route briefing, along a route where you specify a number of waypoints, including IFR waypoints?

No as it's not a substitue for some proper planning but it does give geographical locations which, for someone out on a VFR flight, should at the very least give a heads up to a possible issue en-route. I assume people do actually look at maps these days before they jump in the aeroplane and fire up the GPS?

And it's a freephone number so what excuse is there not to use it?

[spernkey]

Holier than thou!

Is it just me or are all pprune poster's sanctimonious to**ers!

But hang on that would be jumping to conclusions before one had the facts - wouldn,t it??????

As it happens i routed round Kemble on my way back from Devon just before the Reds got going and the vis was challenging for visual nav. We were 8000 hours experience between the 2 of us - i imagine a lower time ppl(on his/her own?) could easily have planned to miss the TRA and still come unstuck.But of course i don't know the facts either so i'll leave it at that.

Thank god for all the other saintly pilots or where would we be?

This is my last post here as i have finally had enuff of this DRIVEL.

[Roffa]

Originally Posted by spernkey

Is it just me or are all pprune poster's sanctimonious to**ers!

Probably

If this event was a one off fair enough, but in the day job I see traffic infringing CAS and TRA to a greater or lesser degree (and with a few pretty close calls with scheduled traffic) on pretty much a daily basis so it becomes increasingly difficult to remain 100% sympathetic.

And I'm not being sanctimonious when I ask if people look at maps these days because the reports after the fact have shown than in a number of infringements of the airspace I work in maps weren't being looked at, just out of date GPSs.

Whatever, the facts will come out in the wash, but in the meantime there is no harm in publicising any means available for trying to make sure that one is aware of everything that may be happening in the air around you.

Cheerio.

[Saab Dastard]

Is it just me or are all pprune poster's sanctimonious to**ers!

It's just you.

This is my last post here as i have finally had enuff of this DRIVEL.

[englishal]

We should ask why these infringements happen. There seem to be a lot of them, and I reckon it is a problem with the way Notams are disseminated. Even I have trouble wading through 50 pages of A4 textual rubbish and staying awake.

Now is the time for the AIS to release a GRAPHICAL officially endorsed Notam plotter which shows these TRAs etc...without all the other rubbish and allow one to just include today's pertinent Notams. If the author of NotamPlot can do it, I'm sure some boffin in AIS can knock up one in half a day.

Anyway, I'm sure whoever did infringe the display didn't do it deliberately, and will probably suffer a lot more than those who missed half of the red arrows display. (wasn't me, honest, I'm in Norway )

[DFC]

Originally Posted by Porco Rosso

There's no good reason for not calling 0500 354 802 at the very least.

I have never called that number and have no intention of doing so.

To take up IO540's point, it is a legal requirement to properly prepare for a flight including checking NOTAMs, AICs and the AIP etc.

A briefing from AIS will include any TRAs for the red arrows etc as well as all the other information one is legally required to check. The telephone message merely repeats what one has already received in the legally required briefing.

Thus there is no need to ring any freephone numbers if one has obtained a full and proper pre-flight briefing.

Perhaps some pilots think that if they ring the frephone number that they do not to get a full AIS briefing before flight? - Wrong!

---------

IO540,

Agree that many instructors and examiners do not ensure that students/candidates check notams and aip etc pre-flight. Many people obtain PPLs without having ever consulted the AIP. How can that be done?

Of course those former students become instructors and very soon, hardly anyone knows how to brief properly for a flight!

Regards,

DFC

[Roffa]

Originally Posted by DFC

I have never called that number and have no intention of doing so.

To take up IO540's point, it is a legal requirement to properly prepare for a flight including checking NOTAMs, AICs and the AIP etc.

Good for you DFC, I wouldn't have expected anything less.

The point remains however that it is a facility that is there, free of charge, to be made use of.

In the imperfect real world it appears there are still some people flying (talking simple day VFR here) who, for whatever reason, fail to brief themselves properly (if at all) before so doing.

If, at the very least, they just picked up the phone before climbing into the cockpit they would probably be warned about the most likely airspace gotchas that might otherwise embarass them.

It may not fulfil the legal requirements to the letter but it would be a lot better than what seems to be happening too often at the moment.