The UK GA scene - where is it now and where's it going???
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Moving towards GPS or staying with traditional navigation is not the issue.
The issue is how we incentivise people to become pilots AND stay pilots.
The drop out rate of new pilots is extraordinarily high. Hang on to just a small percentage of those who qualify and you more than compensate for fewer people training to become pilots. You start to rejuvenate GA.
Mad girl - you ask are you going to have places to fly to and meet nice people.
Take on step back.
You will find that the majority of new pilots don’t fly to other places. They take friends around the local area - not too far from home. They may venture a little further afield in the local cabbage patch if you are lucky. They then realise the “exciting” places they fly to, they could get to by car. Not only is that a lot cheaper but also a great deal more convenient.
The thrill of flying the club spam can in the same way around the same area also starts to diminish at around the same time they are adding up all the costs of flying.
The end is close.
Mad girl - this is the scenario you need to avoid.
Find a good club. Join a good group as soon as you can. Latch on to another pilot or instructor who welcomes your company and go fly. Take on some longer journeys as soon as you can. Find interesting places to go - there are plenty - to which you would prefer not to drive. Try a few different types. You may find your thrills come from aerobatics, or flying an open cockpit. Find your reasons to keep on flying and you will help keep GA alive.
When you have done that, you will also realise that GA must embrace everyone. It must embrace the traditionalist. It must embrace the modernists with their new fangled GPS sets. It must embrace those who want an IR to enable them to fly for business. It must realise that if costs, red tape, and elitism continue to grow, then flying will become so elite there will not be any pilots left to pay.
So are you going to have places to fly .. .. .. Yes, but we are coming towards the end of the golden age of aviation. The biggest problem will be the increasing cost of fuel. Not today, or tomorrow but in the next forty or fifty years GA will need to change out of all recognition if it is to continue. Make the most of it now!
The issue is how we incentivise people to become pilots AND stay pilots.
The drop out rate of new pilots is extraordinarily high. Hang on to just a small percentage of those who qualify and you more than compensate for fewer people training to become pilots. You start to rejuvenate GA.
Mad girl - you ask are you going to have places to fly to and meet nice people.
Take on step back.
You will find that the majority of new pilots don’t fly to other places. They take friends around the local area - not too far from home. They may venture a little further afield in the local cabbage patch if you are lucky. They then realise the “exciting” places they fly to, they could get to by car. Not only is that a lot cheaper but also a great deal more convenient.
The thrill of flying the club spam can in the same way around the same area also starts to diminish at around the same time they are adding up all the costs of flying.
The end is close.
Mad girl - this is the scenario you need to avoid.
Find a good club. Join a good group as soon as you can. Latch on to another pilot or instructor who welcomes your company and go fly. Take on some longer journeys as soon as you can. Find interesting places to go - there are plenty - to which you would prefer not to drive. Try a few different types. You may find your thrills come from aerobatics, or flying an open cockpit. Find your reasons to keep on flying and you will help keep GA alive.
When you have done that, you will also realise that GA must embrace everyone. It must embrace the traditionalist. It must embrace the modernists with their new fangled GPS sets. It must embrace those who want an IR to enable them to fly for business. It must realise that if costs, red tape, and elitism continue to grow, then flying will become so elite there will not be any pilots left to pay.
So are you going to have places to fly .. .. .. Yes, but we are coming towards the end of the golden age of aviation. The biggest problem will be the increasing cost of fuel. Not today, or tomorrow but in the next forty or fifty years GA will need to change out of all recognition if it is to continue. Make the most of it now!
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Find interesting places to go - there are plenty - to which you would prefer not to drive. Try a few different types.
I go to the US almost every year and the oppurtunities for flying there are amazing! Imagine getting San Francisco or Las Vegas in your logbook next to your local airfield - give you something to look back on.
Its a completely different holiday when you realise that you are not now restricted to a few miles within your holiday destination. It also throws people off at work when you say you are off to California and they ask
"Are you hiring a car"
"No actually, I am hiring a 182T with Twin G1000s and taking my mates to Vegas for the weekend"
If you just stay flying in the UK, again as Fuji says, dont get yourself stuck in the circuit or you could become another drop statistic!
J.
Spicy Meatball
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Julian - how dare you put such expensive outbound ideas in my head! 
I fancy organising a week or two away in the states, kind of like a 'flying holiday' where you go abroad with just a bag and a PPL/Passport - hire a plane and go anywhere....
Anyone up for it
I fancy organising a week or two away in the states, kind of like a 'flying holiday' where you go abroad with just a bag and a PPL/Passport - hire a plane and go anywhere....
Anyone up for it
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Maz,
Already booked mate, I am there from 10th July for 3 wks.
Current itiniery is
Long Beach - San Diego - Palm Springs - Scottsdale - Las Vegas - San Francisco.
No doubt this will change as it always does when other pilots mention places they have flown into and its a case of you just have to try it. Heehee.
I may spend the final week letting someone else do the flying and catch a commercial flight over to Maui but not fixed in stone.
In fact, another good reason to get your licence Madgirl, you are not tied to someone elses itiniery!!!
J.
Already booked mate, I am there from 10th July for 3 wks.
Current itiniery is
Long Beach - San Diego - Palm Springs - Scottsdale - Las Vegas - San Francisco.
No doubt this will change as it always does when other pilots mention places they have flown into and its a case of you just have to try it. Heehee.
I may spend the final week letting someone else do the flying and catch a commercial flight over to Maui but not fixed in stone.
In fact, another good reason to get your licence Madgirl, you are not tied to someone elses itiniery!!!
J.
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Julian,
There is a very experienced Pitts instructor in Scottsdale, I'd recommend an hour or two with him - you'll learn lots!
="http://www.airbum.com"
Stik
3 goes at editting the link, sorry!!
There is a very experienced Pitts instructor in Scottsdale, I'd recommend an hour or two with him - you'll learn lots!
="http://www.airbum.com"
Stik
3 goes at editting the link, sorry!!
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Stik,
A Pitts is something I have always wanted to have a go in. I have done some aeros (Cap 10B) but told these are a whole new ball game.
Thanks for the link, you may have just cost me some $$$$$$$$$
J.
A Pitts is something I have always wanted to have a go in. I have done some aeros (Cap 10B) but told these are a whole new ball game.
Thanks for the link, you may have just cost me some $$$$$$$$$
J.
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Originally Posted by Fuji Abound
You may find your thrills come from aerobatics, or flying an open cockpit. Find your reasons to keep on flying and you will help keep GA alive.
. So... I already know one of the things that I want to do but I'm always willing to learn more.
Also, my partner has tried Aero's once and thoroughly enjoyed it but is unlikely to want to whizz about upside down all the time - hence the GA question.
Hi Stik - We're still going to Leicester this weekend are you?? Is it a case of if I find your 'plane I'll find you??
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I really don't think joining a group or syndicate is absolutely necessary in order to be able to expand one's horizons.
It may be desirable so to do, if one has the available capital to tie up in such an arrangement. Personally, I have other things to do with what capital is available, so I hire. Hiring has not stopped me planning and executing longer and more ambitious touring as time goes on, though it might be the case that I would have done more flying as such.
The point is to have some sort of incentive to develop. In this activity, it os probably the case that one has to devise and act on one's own incentive - rather than have it set by others. Nevertheless, it is possible to do so either inside a group or without it. Hiring for me provides an incentive to make the hiring time count in some way beneficial to development.
Having said that, the options available for hiring are limited as soon as one starts to wish for aircraft somewhat better equipped than standard club fare. That is undeniable, and perhaps a gap in the market (though I would be amongst the first to point out my own ignorance of market conditions). Still, though, the fact remains that one has to find one's own path through the various available options to develop one's own flying - or give up. For me the path is hiring, for others it is group or single ownership. None is more valid than another.
It may be desirable so to do, if one has the available capital to tie up in such an arrangement. Personally, I have other things to do with what capital is available, so I hire. Hiring has not stopped me planning and executing longer and more ambitious touring as time goes on, though it might be the case that I would have done more flying as such.
The point is to have some sort of incentive to develop. In this activity, it os probably the case that one has to devise and act on one's own incentive - rather than have it set by others. Nevertheless, it is possible to do so either inside a group or without it. Hiring for me provides an incentive to make the hiring time count in some way beneficial to development.
Having said that, the options available for hiring are limited as soon as one starts to wish for aircraft somewhat better equipped than standard club fare. That is undeniable, and perhaps a gap in the market (though I would be amongst the first to point out my own ignorance of market conditions). Still, though, the fact remains that one has to find one's own path through the various available options to develop one's own flying - or give up. For me the path is hiring, for others it is group or single ownership. None is more valid than another.
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MG - If you find my aeroplane this weekend, you'll be at my house!!
Unfortunately I shan't be attending the Leicester comp as my "charge" has had to scratch and I believe that he wants me to repair his broken aeroplane.
Bodmin next weekend though. I need to go and fly the sequence a few times before I head down to the West Country.
No doubt we'll bump into each other somewhere. You've got a PM.
Stik
Unfortunately I shan't be attending the Leicester comp as my "charge" has had to scratch and I believe that he wants me to repair his broken aeroplane.
Bodmin next weekend though. I need to go and fly the sequence a few times before I head down to the West Country.
No doubt we'll bump into each other somewhere. You've got a PM.
Stik
The Original Whirly
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6% of PPLs are female, and 2-3% of commercial pilots
I think those numbers are set to change. My small and empirical perception is that about 15-20% (and rising) of CPL trainees and instructors are are women.
I think those numbers are set to change. My small and empirical perception is that about 15-20% (and rising) of CPL trainees and instructors are are women.
Cut & Paste Intellectual
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This virgin flyer would like to know the truth about the big blue yonder out there….
Pre qualification your progress will be carefully mentored but after that the big blue yonder tends to be full of weather, somewhat indiscernible regulation, lots of adaptation and strategic problem solving.
I found that from the first flight to where I am now – is as much a reflection of how I faired in life. If you look inside yourself – you will know what lies out in the big blue yonder.
It’s a glorious ride and fast or slow, distant or close – irreducibly memorable.
Pre qualification your progress will be carefully mentored but after that the big blue yonder tends to be full of weather, somewhat indiscernible regulation, lots of adaptation and strategic problem solving.
I found that from the first flight to where I am now – is as much a reflection of how I faired in life. If you look inside yourself – you will know what lies out in the big blue yonder.
It’s a glorious ride and fast or slow, distant or close – irreducibly memorable.
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I think Mad Girl has been lucky to find her feet in a friendly aviation environment. She has much the same experience of the people in GA that I have - friendly, open and more than the rest of society willing to talk to a stranger, and be welcoming and helpful. Along with a fair share of anoraks, usually harmless enough.
Not sure where IO flies, but he seems to have little patience with other aviators who don't want to do things his way. I think that is a pity, as I gather from his posts he has an advanced aircraft with some very modern kit. It is available to GA, so I cannot see why he is not satisfied. The US IR he presumably holds still allows him to fly in the UK under IFR in most circumstances, and I believe it should carry on like that (despite not being as challenging flying as the JAA IR - according to those I know who have both qualifications this is the case).
I would agree if he is suggesting that EASA should come up with some equivalent of the US IR, but the problem is that by tradition US commercial pilots don't fly larger aircraft until they have many more hours, so the IR does not have to prepare them as thoroughly. The JAA IR is aimed at people going straight onto a type rating, or after another 40 hours IFR into single-crew IFR commercial flying on as few as 400 hours TT! Perhaps it is time to have a totally seperate "PPL IR" - an EASA IMC rating if you like, but allowing IFR in class A. That would be good for GA, in IO's IFR tourer class. The same issue doesn't apply to the groundschool as all the commercials go ATPL not IR, so perhaps the reform process there should be hurried, as a start.
He has presumably never had a GPS fail. I have, on a Garmin set, on several occasions - some apparently due to lack of reception, some due to the set actually crashing and needing power interupt to restart. One particular area that it doesn't like is around Cherbourg, where there are some small gaps to fly between danger and restricted areas.
And we have the main reason for the use of "outdated" techniques - they are tried and tested, and modes of failure are known and the contingencies well-established. In other words they work and have proved safe.
Clearly I do not have a brain, despite the qualifications, as I would say that the circular slide rule is still used because it is actually better than most other techniques, and for most of its functions as easy as an electronic calculator for those that bother to learn it thoroughly. It is also far easier to spot errors, as it forces the user to have an idea of the answer before starting. I think the term IO is looking for is not "easier" but "more familiar", which an electronic calculator certainly is nowadays.
Not sure where IO flies, but he seems to have little patience with other aviators who don't want to do things his way. I think that is a pity, as I gather from his posts he has an advanced aircraft with some very modern kit. It is available to GA, so I cannot see why he is not satisfied. The US IR he presumably holds still allows him to fly in the UK under IFR in most circumstances, and I believe it should carry on like that (despite not being as challenging flying as the JAA IR - according to those I know who have both qualifications this is the case).
I would agree if he is suggesting that EASA should come up with some equivalent of the US IR, but the problem is that by tradition US commercial pilots don't fly larger aircraft until they have many more hours, so the IR does not have to prepare them as thoroughly. The JAA IR is aimed at people going straight onto a type rating, or after another 40 hours IFR into single-crew IFR commercial flying on as few as 400 hours TT! Perhaps it is time to have a totally seperate "PPL IR" - an EASA IMC rating if you like, but allowing IFR in class A. That would be good for GA, in IO's IFR tourer class. The same issue doesn't apply to the groundschool as all the commercials go ATPL not IR, so perhaps the reform process there should be hurried, as a start.
He has presumably never had a GPS fail. I have, on a Garmin set, on several occasions - some apparently due to lack of reception, some due to the set actually crashing and needing power interupt to restart. One particular area that it doesn't like is around Cherbourg, where there are some small gaps to fly between danger and restricted areas.
And we have the main reason for the use of "outdated" techniques - they are tried and tested, and modes of failure are known and the contingencies well-established. In other words they work and have proved safe.
Clearly I do not have a brain, despite the qualifications, as I would say that the circular slide rule is still used because it is actually better than most other techniques, and for most of its functions as easy as an electronic calculator for those that bother to learn it thoroughly. It is also far easier to spot errors, as it forces the user to have an idea of the answer before starting. I think the term IO is looking for is not "easier" but "more familiar", which an electronic calculator certainly is nowadays.
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I have to profess to not understanding the great IR debate that's going on - No doubt my flying nut instructor would enlighten me if I asked him - send me a PM please Boss (words of one syllabel) - he's good like that!!!.
I already know I want to do my night and IMC rating when I eventually get out of the "aaaaagh" circuits and start flying about again and get my license, but is what they're talking about going to affect this??
I'm slightly reassured that some of you feel that there are good places that I could fly into and make "instant" friends.
One thing I haven't mentioned... as some are talking about groups/shares....My club is also trying to make GA more accessable for many people by organising shares in C42's - cheap enough to enable all flyers to get time in and be owners. How many clubs are doing this???
Thankfully, I'm going to be able to buy into a small group or maybe even own outright after I've got my license - depends if I go the aero's route or the more normal route and hire an aero's 'plane for playing in.
Life's very open at the moment and I don't want to close down any routes - just making sure that the aviation scene is ready for another nutter!!!
I appreciate the offer of RH seats as I have a lot to learn and may visit wsmempson as you're not too far away unless you'd like to come to me and see the club - PM me?
I already know I want to do my night and IMC rating when I eventually get out of the "aaaaagh" circuits and start flying about again and get my license, but is what they're talking about going to affect this??
I'm slightly reassured that some of you feel that there are good places that I could fly into and make "instant" friends.
One thing I haven't mentioned... as some are talking about groups/shares....My club is also trying to make GA more accessable for many people by organising shares in C42's - cheap enough to enable all flyers to get time in and be owners. How many clubs are doing this???
Thankfully, I'm going to be able to buy into a small group or maybe even own outright after I've got my license - depends if I go the aero's route or the more normal route and hire an aero's 'plane for playing in.
Life's very open at the moment and I don't want to close down any routes - just making sure that the aviation scene is ready for another nutter!!!
I appreciate the offer of RH seats as I have a lot to learn and may visit wsmempson as you're not too far away unless you'd like to come to me and see the club - PM me?
Last edited by Mad Girl; 15th Jun 2006 at 19:36.
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I don’t believe many informed observers object to the flying component of the IR of whatever complexion. The objection is to the theory, much of which is irrelevant to the PPL/IR.
You are wrong to suggest one IR is better or worse than the other. The consensus is that each has its advantages and disadvantages. Both ensure the candidate obtains a satisfactory standard.
The approach of commercial pilots in this country and the intention of the IR is not as you suggest. The majority of commercial pilots spent a great many hours in light aircraft, usually hour building whilst teaching. Airlines would rarely consider pilots with less than 600 hours to their credit. The route for a private pilot to a European IR was more straight forward. Changes to practically preclude a private pilot obtaining a European IR are recent. It is for this reason the number issued each year to pilots with no commercial intentions can be counted on a hand or two. It is also the reason why so many private pilots now hold an FAA IR. I believe around 40% of all private pilots in the States hold an IR, I guess it is way less than 5% in Europe. This depressing statistic should alone tell us something, particularly when you consider a lot of pilots in this country hold or would like to hold an IMCR because they recognise it contributes to making them a safer pilot.
In an aircraft, pilots place their trust in a range of equipment, much of which is complex. The map and slide rule are the most basic equipment and the most unlikely to fail. Many derive great satisfaction from "traditional" navigation. However, and this has been debated very often in the past, there is little doubt moving map GPS offers some advantages. Some of us feel aviation should embrace the "old" and the "new". Some feel that in Europe the regulators have been slow to adopt new technology or to be receptive to the needs of GA. Comparisons are bound to be made with the States where GA remains in a good state of health and in Europe where IMHO that is increasingly less true.
The challenge for Madgirl and other new pilots is to embrace and understand the needs of everyone in GA, and to resist the regulatory demands for ever more restrictive practices, for if we fail to do so GA will irreparably damaged.
There are those who would tell you instrument pilots are the elite. There are those who will tell you they have no place in GA unless they hold a commercial license. I cannot imagine a more short sight attitude in a country where the weather is a constant challenge. GA must embrace the pilot who only wants to fly his Auster in 10K viz from one grass strip to another with a map and a slide rule. It must also embrace the new and far more capable aircraft like the Diamond Stars with EFIS and a Garmin 1,000 fit, because these aircraft are capable of safe and fast point to point transport in a wider ranger of conditions. If it fails to do so manufacturers such as Diamond will move their operations to America or where ever they can sell their wares.
In short as the old adage goes, move with the times or get left behind.
I don’t believe many informed observers object to the flying component of the IR of whatever complexion. The objection is to the theory, much of which is irrelevant to the PPL/IR.
You are wrong to suggest one IR is better or worse than the other. The consensus is that each has its advantages and disadvantages. Both ensure the candidate obtains a satisfactory standard.
The approach of commercial pilots in this country and the intention of the IR is not as you suggest. The majority of commercial pilots spent a great many hours in light aircraft, usually hour building whilst teaching. Airlines would rarely consider pilots with less than 600 hours to their credit. The route for a private pilot to a European IR was more straight forward. Changes to practically preclude a private pilot obtaining a European IR are recent. It is for this reason the number issued each year to pilots with no commercial intentions can be counted on a hand or two. It is also the reason why so many private pilots now hold an FAA IR. I believe around 40% of all private pilots in the States hold an IR, I guess it is way less than 5% in Europe. This depressing statistic should alone tell us something, particularly when you consider a lot of pilots in this country hold or would like to hold an IMCR because they recognise it contributes to making them a safer pilot.
In an aircraft, pilots place their trust in a range of equipment, much of which is complex. The map and slide rule are the most basic equipment and the most unlikely to fail. Many derive great satisfaction from "traditional" navigation. However, and this has been debated very often in the past, there is little doubt moving map GPS offers some advantages. Some of us feel aviation should embrace the "old" and the "new". Some feel that in Europe the regulators have been slow to adopt new technology or to be receptive to the needs of GA. Comparisons are bound to be made with the States where GA remains in a good state of health and in Europe where IMHO that is increasingly less true.
The challenge for Madgirl and other new pilots is to embrace and understand the needs of everyone in GA, and to resist the regulatory demands for ever more restrictive practices, for if we fail to do so GA will irreparably damaged.
There are those who would tell you instrument pilots are the elite. There are those who will tell you they have no place in GA unless they hold a commercial license. I cannot imagine a more short sight attitude in a country where the weather is a constant challenge. GA must embrace the pilot who only wants to fly his Auster in 10K viz from one grass strip to another with a map and a slide rule. It must also embrace the new and far more capable aircraft like the Diamond Stars with EFIS and a Garmin 1,000 fit, because these aircraft are capable of safe and fast point to point transport in a wider ranger of conditions. If it fails to do so manufacturers such as Diamond will move their operations to America or where ever they can sell their wares.
In short as the old adage goes, move with the times or get left behind.
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The great IR debate..........
Put simply, the full instrument rating allows you to fly in any airspace, subject to any restrictions placed on the type of aircraft. In effect it is what you need to fly in the main airway system, into major airports and internationally. Generally considered a professional qualification by the regulator, but is available to the ppl, although at commercial terms ie loads of ground school, twin engines etc. The ground school is extensive and teaches a load of stuff that you might never need again, but then again it is designed to filter out budding commerical pilots rather than educate the finer art of instrument flying.
The IMC rating will allow you to fly in most of the UK airspace and into almost all big airports IFR.
So what it boils down to is what sort of flying you want to do and how far you want to go and what level of weather dependancy you can live with.
Those that debate the IR are those wishing to do extended touring in Europe and get home in time to go back to work. I reckon it is a conspiracy to put GA aviation off IFR to avoid melt down of the airspace co-ordination system!!
Put simply, the full instrument rating allows you to fly in any airspace, subject to any restrictions placed on the type of aircraft. In effect it is what you need to fly in the main airway system, into major airports and internationally. Generally considered a professional qualification by the regulator, but is available to the ppl, although at commercial terms ie loads of ground school, twin engines etc. The ground school is extensive and teaches a load of stuff that you might never need again, but then again it is designed to filter out budding commerical pilots rather than educate the finer art of instrument flying.
The IMC rating will allow you to fly in most of the UK airspace and into almost all big airports IFR.
So what it boils down to is what sort of flying you want to do and how far you want to go and what level of weather dependancy you can live with.
Those that debate the IR are those wishing to do extended touring in Europe and get home in time to go back to work. I reckon it is a conspiracy to put GA aviation off IFR to avoid melt down of the airspace co-ordination system!!
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There is absolutely zero risk of an airways melt-down, simply because so few pilots can afford planes of the required standard & equipment level. Also very few with the money to pull off the aforementioned have also got the time to get an IR. Even the FAA one is a long haul.
The low traffic argument is obvious to anybody who flies say 800nm in any direction out of the UK. Once past the UK FIR boundary, there is far less GA traffic, and in some countries there is close to none at all. Just some microlights pottering about way down below, perhaps.
I think a much more likely explanation for the very hard Euro IR is simply that the powers in charge don't care about GA. In Europe, GA is regarded as a sport and IFR GA doesn't really feature on the event horizon of the GA administrators. No suprise, there is no effective GA lobby. The PPL/IR group www.pplir.org do good work but they don't have the USD 30M or so budget of the US AOPA. Here, the IR is used solely as a route to the ATPL and that's why they don't see a problem with throwing a chunk of several jet type ratings into it.
There is also a great deal of elitism, especially when it comes to the USA who tend to be regarded by the "intellectual Europeans" as a bunch of stupid cowboys. Never underestimate simple factors like this!
The low traffic argument is obvious to anybody who flies say 800nm in any direction out of the UK. Once past the UK FIR boundary, there is far less GA traffic, and in some countries there is close to none at all. Just some microlights pottering about way down below, perhaps.
I think a much more likely explanation for the very hard Euro IR is simply that the powers in charge don't care about GA. In Europe, GA is regarded as a sport and IFR GA doesn't really feature on the event horizon of the GA administrators. No suprise, there is no effective GA lobby. The PPL/IR group www.pplir.org do good work but they don't have the USD 30M or so budget of the US AOPA. Here, the IR is used solely as a route to the ATPL and that's why they don't see a problem with throwing a chunk of several jet type ratings into it.
There is also a great deal of elitism, especially when it comes to the USA who tend to be regarded by the "intellectual Europeans" as a bunch of stupid cowboys. Never underestimate simple factors like this!
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Fuji
I have absolutely no experience of the FAA IR. I can only go by the judgement of friends who hold one as well as a CAA or JAA IR. The universal comment is that the JAA is more difficult in flying. The most definite opinion of that comes from a friend who teaches JAA IR and CAA IMC ratings, and compares the FAA IR to an IMC rating.
I am sorry but that is simply untrue, although it would have been closer to the truth 7 years ago. I know a lot of pilots who have entered the airlines with far fewer than 600 hours, many as few as 2-300, and most don't ever instruct. It is common in the UK - and the reason that some single-crew operators have had difficulty recruiting, as they require 400-1000 hours minimum (depending on the operation).
I agree that a moving-map GPS has many advantages - I use one most days. However it also has disadvantages, some of which are most evident when I am flying fuel-critical legs in poor weather, others of which always apply. All can be overcome, but only by use of traditional tools alongside the GPS. The biggest disadvantage is made obvious when you're in the cruise in an airway and the signal suddenly drops out - as has happened to me. Fortunately I only use the GPS to back up my VOR/DME-based navigation. So the traditional methods must still be taught, before the new.
I also agree that aviation is over-regulated in Europe, and stifled by excessive costs. The US has a much better attitude, with aviation encouraged as being a normal part of life, rather than something special and different.
IO540
I would dispute that few people can afford planes of the right equipment. I have flown in one club that had airways equipment in all its PA28s and I think it's 172 (euch, don't like 172s so I don't know for that one), and one that had it in half of its aircraft. They were no more expensive to hire than most clubs in the area. The block is the difficulty of obtaining an IR which you point out, and that should be addressed, but I don't think it will be. The regulators are to blame. Maybe Droopy is right, that they don't want more in the airways. They can get pretty busy in places sometimes.
I have absolutely no experience of the FAA IR. I can only go by the judgement of friends who hold one as well as a CAA or JAA IR. The universal comment is that the JAA is more difficult in flying. The most definite opinion of that comes from a friend who teaches JAA IR and CAA IMC ratings, and compares the FAA IR to an IMC rating.
The majority of commercial pilots spent a great many hours in light aircraft, usually hour building whilst teaching. Airlines would rarely consider pilots with less than 600 hours to their credit.
I agree that a moving-map GPS has many advantages - I use one most days. However it also has disadvantages, some of which are most evident when I am flying fuel-critical legs in poor weather, others of which always apply. All can be overcome, but only by use of traditional tools alongside the GPS. The biggest disadvantage is made obvious when you're in the cruise in an airway and the signal suddenly drops out - as has happened to me. Fortunately I only use the GPS to back up my VOR/DME-based navigation. So the traditional methods must still be taught, before the new.
I also agree that aviation is over-regulated in Europe, and stifled by excessive costs. The US has a much better attitude, with aviation encouraged as being a normal part of life, rather than something special and different.
IO540
I would dispute that few people can afford planes of the right equipment. I have flown in one club that had airways equipment in all its PA28s and I think it's 172 (euch, don't like 172s so I don't know for that one), and one that had it in half of its aircraft. They were no more expensive to hire than most clubs in the area. The block is the difficulty of obtaining an IR which you point out, and that should be addressed, but I don't think it will be. The regulators are to blame. Maybe Droopy is right, that they don't want more in the airways. They can get pretty busy in places sometimes.
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The problem with airway flight as you describe (VOR as primary) is that ATC often sends you to waypoints that just happen to be navaids (VORs or NDBs) but are much too far away for reception. That's why RNAV capability is mandatory at typical airway levels. I know you can get a KNS80 FM-immune (with an antenna filter) and BRNAV certified but it won't be much good most of the time because you willbe outside the DOC. And I don't know how else you are complying with the BRNAV requirements that apply at typical European airway MEAs - the only other option is an INS! Without a BRNAV GPS, you must be referring to an RNAV box like a KNS80, and they are nearly useless now.
If you don't use a big moving map IFR GPS you are seriously doing yourself out of situational awareness. This is not the same as arguing VOR nav should not be trained, which I am not saying at all. A GPS receiver, like any other piece of kit, can fail.
Another factor re aircraft equipment isn't just the gear it carries. BTW, do all these PA28s have Mode S?? It's also performance. I know a Warrior will climb to FL100, did that in my IR, but it takes for ever and then some extra. If you find yourself in IMC in N Europe at FL80-120 you will probably be collecting ice. One needs a plane that can do VMC on top, say FL150, or you have to hang around waiting for clear-ish skies to cover the whole area. The other week I was collecting ice at FL120 and had to climb to 140. I wouldn't even think of airways flight around Europe without FL150-180 capability (which rules out the PA28/Cessna trainer scene) and while any decent tourer will do that it also means oxygen.
Re the relative difficulty of flight training in the JAA and FAA IR, not many people have actually done both. This is because if you have FAA then the JAA needs doing it all again (and very very few people have done that, and what did they say? - I know of some of these and do know what they say), and if you have JAA you can get the FAA with 1 exam, 1 oral, 1 checkride.
There is a huge difference in style of training; with FAA you can get a deal where you fly around the USA with an instructor for 2 wks and then, having flown every imaginable approach etc, you have your oral and checkride, which will be realtively easy because you have been living the real stuff for 2 wks. This would never be accepted in the much more formal CAA/JAA training where you can do the whole IR in a sim and then banging away between Cranfield and Cambridge.
The problem with airway flight as you describe (VOR as primary) is that ATC often sends you to waypoints that just happen to be navaids (VORs or NDBs) but are much too far away for reception. That's why RNAV capability is mandatory at typical airway levels. I know you can get a KNS80 FM-immune (with an antenna filter) and BRNAV certified but it won't be much good most of the time because you willbe outside the DOC. And I don't know how else you are complying with the BRNAV requirements that apply at typical European airway MEAs - the only other option is an INS! Without a BRNAV GPS, you must be referring to an RNAV box like a KNS80, and they are nearly useless now.
If you don't use a big moving map IFR GPS you are seriously doing yourself out of situational awareness. This is not the same as arguing VOR nav should not be trained, which I am not saying at all. A GPS receiver, like any other piece of kit, can fail.
Another factor re aircraft equipment isn't just the gear it carries. BTW, do all these PA28s have Mode S?? It's also performance. I know a Warrior will climb to FL100, did that in my IR, but it takes for ever and then some extra. If you find yourself in IMC in N Europe at FL80-120 you will probably be collecting ice. One needs a plane that can do VMC on top, say FL150, or you have to hang around waiting for clear-ish skies to cover the whole area. The other week I was collecting ice at FL120 and had to climb to 140. I wouldn't even think of airways flight around Europe without FL150-180 capability (which rules out the PA28/Cessna trainer scene) and while any decent tourer will do that it also means oxygen.
Re the relative difficulty of flight training in the JAA and FAA IR, not many people have actually done both. This is because if you have FAA then the JAA needs doing it all again (and very very few people have done that, and what did they say? - I know of some of these and do know what they say), and if you have JAA you can get the FAA with 1 exam, 1 oral, 1 checkride.
There is a huge difference in style of training; with FAA you can get a deal where you fly around the USA with an instructor for 2 wks and then, having flown every imaginable approach etc, you have your oral and checkride, which will be realtively easy because you have been living the real stuff for 2 wks. This would never be accepted in the much more formal CAA/JAA training where you can do the whole IR in a sim and then banging away between Cranfield and Cambridge.