Landing techniques
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From: Daventry
Landing techniques
I am 20 hrs into my ppl,had my solo ( feels great,doesn't it) and had some solo circuit consolidation with crosswinds and turbulence and pretty happy with myself. ( training in a C152).
I have used one or 2 different instructors recently ( when my regular unavailable) and I am getting some conflicting ideas on landing.
I approach trimmed for 75mph and 30 deg flap ( 20 if gusty) then I get varying instructions once over the threshold:
My regular says to gradually reduce power and then pull throttle right back at the flare ( this works ok for me and happy to use this method)
Another guy said once over the threshold,pull throttle right back and glide to the flare ( I didn't like the sudden sink with this).
The one that works best for me and has produced some very smooth landings is that I 'juggle' the throttle and attitude right though the flare and don't completely throttle back until just before touchdown.I have been criticised by another FI that I am trying to land it like a jet.
Is there only one 'right' way as I am keen to get it right on the skills test ( that is some way off of course) and always like to fly solo as accurately as if my FI was there with me.
Any advice welcome
Modelman
I have used one or 2 different instructors recently ( when my regular unavailable) and I am getting some conflicting ideas on landing.
I approach trimmed for 75mph and 30 deg flap ( 20 if gusty) then I get varying instructions once over the threshold:
My regular says to gradually reduce power and then pull throttle right back at the flare ( this works ok for me and happy to use this method)
Another guy said once over the threshold,pull throttle right back and glide to the flare ( I didn't like the sudden sink with this).
The one that works best for me and has produced some very smooth landings is that I 'juggle' the throttle and attitude right though the flare and don't completely throttle back until just before touchdown.I have been criticised by another FI that I am trying to land it like a jet.
Is there only one 'right' way as I am keen to get it right on the skills test ( that is some way off of course) and always like to fly solo as accurately as if my FI was there with me.
Any advice welcome
Modelman
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: In your head.
Sounds like your first option is the best and easiest to use.
But at the end of the day do whatever you feel most comfortable with.
And remember a good landing isn't necessarily a smooth one...touchdown at the right place at the right speed and you wont go far wrong. Once you get a bit more experience you can start to finesse your own technique.
Hope that helps,
CM
But at the end of the day do whatever you feel most comfortable with.
And remember a good landing isn't necessarily a smooth one...touchdown at the right place at the right speed and you wont go far wrong. Once you get a bit more experience you can start to finesse your own technique.
Hope that helps,
CM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
Instructors and "their ways" is very common. I had the same issue at popular flying school/club based just inside the North East quadrant of the M25!
I'm like you, feel much more comfortable with my hands on the throttle 'trickling' the power down slowly all the way until the final milliseconds of the landing. Landings are spot on and much smoother everytime.
I'm like you, feel much more comfortable with my hands on the throttle 'trickling' the power down slowly all the way until the final milliseconds of the landing. Landings are spot on and much smoother everytime.
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Toronto
The instructors at my FTU have a habit of declaring an engine failure just after completion of the downwind checks.
At some point you do need to get used to landing without an engine
At some point you do need to get used to landing without an engine
Joined: May 2003
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From: near hat
The right way is the way that you find works for you,
tell any subsequent instructor this and change if they dont except it , if you are having problems then obviously thats different, give it a go .
Yes you will have to learn glide approaches but that is a different exercise which will help to expand your skills in the relatively unlikely event that the donkey stops (and for your test of course) one step at a time.
T2
tell any subsequent instructor this and change if they dont except it , if you are having problems then obviously thats different, give it a go .
Yes you will have to learn glide approaches but that is a different exercise which will help to expand your skills in the relatively unlikely event that the donkey stops (and for your test of course) one step at a time.
T2
Joined: May 2006
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From: Saraksh
stoopid question, but i would like to know your experienca with c172 landing. What is most simple technique for that airplane? I'm very afraid to loose speed when i am too high and my mistake, that i land with a bit higher speed and it is bad landings
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: moon
My expereince is that all instructors do things slightly differently. I'm a low time pilot myself, but for what its worth, here is my experience.
Rule Number One: READ THE PILOTS OPERATING HANDBOOK
Instructors and flying schools al have variations on approach speeds and suchlike, but the best advice in my opinion is to follow the POH.
Usual approach speed is 1.2, 1.3 Vs. Why? Because not only does it give some gust protection, if you have an engine failure on base or final you can retract a stage of flaps to stretch your glide without stalling.
Tricycle aircraft all have one common issue - protecting the nosewheel. The C150/152 has a pretty strong undercarriage (Thank God). The C172 and 182 nosegear is not as robust. Its attached directly to the firewall.
So anyway my point is whatever you do, don't arrive too fast over the threshold. For a C172 I try and arrive at 60 knots, for a C150, dunno I've forgotten, but maybe 55knots. Arrow, probably 65 knots. Once over the threshold, stop looking inside at ASI or dials, you are at 50 feet or less and should be looking up the runway, keeping centred and working out when to start your flair. Power setting depends on aircraft type. C172/150 etc. you normally land power off - chop throttle at threshold. Heavier aircrraft like an Arrow/ Tobago/182, you gently reduce power and land with a little power on.
What happens if you land too fast - you will either float, or (worse) bounce and float. What normally happens with a C172 is that you then get a pilot induced oscillation in which you are trying to keep up with the aircraft and never quite make it. On the third bounce you bend the firewall and are $1500 poorer. Never ever push forward in close proxiity to the ground. The accepted technique for a C150/172/182 is to keep pulling back as far as you can go to keep the aircraft flying and it will then land when its good and ready.
OK, everyone can now tear me to bits as usual.
Also read the (rambling) thoughts on the link which I very strongly recommend - it helped me a lot with landings and taught me some stuff that young grade one instructors don't seem to know.
http://www.whittsflying.com/
Rule Number One: READ THE PILOTS OPERATING HANDBOOK
Instructors and flying schools al have variations on approach speeds and suchlike, but the best advice in my opinion is to follow the POH.
Usual approach speed is 1.2, 1.3 Vs. Why? Because not only does it give some gust protection, if you have an engine failure on base or final you can retract a stage of flaps to stretch your glide without stalling.
Tricycle aircraft all have one common issue - protecting the nosewheel. The C150/152 has a pretty strong undercarriage (Thank God). The C172 and 182 nosegear is not as robust. Its attached directly to the firewall.
So anyway my point is whatever you do, don't arrive too fast over the threshold. For a C172 I try and arrive at 60 knots, for a C150, dunno I've forgotten, but maybe 55knots. Arrow, probably 65 knots. Once over the threshold, stop looking inside at ASI or dials, you are at 50 feet or less and should be looking up the runway, keeping centred and working out when to start your flair. Power setting depends on aircraft type. C172/150 etc. you normally land power off - chop throttle at threshold. Heavier aircrraft like an Arrow/ Tobago/182, you gently reduce power and land with a little power on.
What happens if you land too fast - you will either float, or (worse) bounce and float. What normally happens with a C172 is that you then get a pilot induced oscillation in which you are trying to keep up with the aircraft and never quite make it. On the third bounce you bend the firewall and are $1500 poorer. Never ever push forward in close proxiity to the ground. The accepted technique for a C150/172/182 is to keep pulling back as far as you can go to keep the aircraft flying and it will then land when its good and ready.
OK, everyone can now tear me to bits as usual.
Also read the (rambling) thoughts on the link which I very strongly recommend - it helped me a lot with landings and taught me some stuff that young grade one instructors don't seem to know.
http://www.whittsflying.com/
Joined: Oct 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Walthamstow
Originally Posted by Sunfish
Also read the (rambling) thoughts on the link which I very strongly recommend - it helped me a lot with landings and taught me some stuff that young grade one instructors don't seem to know.
http://www.whittsflying.com/
http://www.whittsflying.com/
Joined: Dec 1998
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
No manual for any light aircraft I've flown (some 40 types from C150s to C90 Kingairs) advises leaving a trickle of power on. They all - including arrows & Tobagos as I recall - specify flying through the screen height in a glide as the book technique to achieve the landing chart distances. Apart from that consideration there are numerous variations on the theme to try to land a greaser.
Depending on turbulence & windshear, headwind/tailwind component, configuration, temp. & weight then reducing power earlier, later &/or at a different rate to achieve an aiming point can make difference to landing point & smoothness.
When I was flying in Shetland into 380m strips in gale force winds with strong shear & turbulance I would use full to idle power and anywhere in between as often as necessary to consistantly achieve a touchdown in the same 10 m area but always getting the power off as fast as possible once the wheel were on. Now that I'm flying in the US into mostly 4000' to 9000' runways then will usually trickle the power off during the flare to give a smooth touchdown, often touching down with some small amount of power still on & needing to be soon after.
Is it IAW with the landing chart's specified technique? Of course not. But one instance was in rather extreme conditions, and the other has more runway that the chart considers. But if I have to operate into a limiting strip then my technique closely mirrors the book - albeit with some judgement developed through experience about rates of throttle closure & exactly when.
Depending on turbulence & windshear, headwind/tailwind component, configuration, temp. & weight then reducing power earlier, later &/or at a different rate to achieve an aiming point can make difference to landing point & smoothness.
When I was flying in Shetland into 380m strips in gale force winds with strong shear & turbulance I would use full to idle power and anywhere in between as often as necessary to consistantly achieve a touchdown in the same 10 m area but always getting the power off as fast as possible once the wheel were on. Now that I'm flying in the US into mostly 4000' to 9000' runways then will usually trickle the power off during the flare to give a smooth touchdown, often touching down with some small amount of power still on & needing to be soon after.
Is it IAW with the landing chart's specified technique? Of course not. But one instance was in rather extreme conditions, and the other has more runway that the chart considers. But if I have to operate into a limiting strip then my technique closely mirrors the book - albeit with some judgement developed through experience about rates of throttle closure & exactly when.
Joined: Dec 1998
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
couldn't edit without crashing. That's what I get for using M$ Windoze today...
There are numerous ways to get the a/c on the ground. Some you'll find easier than others. For now use whatever method you get the most success with but bear in mind that it might not be the method the manufacturer specifies to achieve book figures nor might it be the 'best' method for the conditions.
As you gain experience & skill you'll be able to modify your technique to have a broader range of methods to suit a range of conditions.
There are numerous ways to get the a/c on the ground. Some you'll find easier than others. For now use whatever method you get the most success with but bear in mind that it might not be the method the manufacturer specifies to achieve book figures nor might it be the 'best' method for the conditions.
As you gain experience & skill you'll be able to modify your technique to have a broader range of methods to suit a range of conditions.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Instructors who insist on things being done THEIR WAY should be shot!!!! One of those was responsible for me taking hours and hours and hours to learn to land. He insisted that as soon as I came over the hedge I cut the power. Having poorish depth perception - I know now that was my main problem - I could never get the flare height exactly right. A few weeks later, poorer by several hundred pounds and my confidence at an all-time low, I finally flew with another instructor, who told me it was OK to keep a bit of power on as long as I liked if I found that easier, so long as it was off when I landed. Hey presto - I could judge my landings! Yes, eventually I had to learn glide approaches, but that's another story.
There are many ways to skin a cat. If your instructor can't accept that, or give you a good reason for doing it His Way, change instructor.
There are many ways to skin a cat. If your instructor can't accept that, or give you a good reason for doing it His Way, change instructor.
