Transiting zones in quick succession
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Transiting zones in quick succession
How do people overcome the problem of trying to transit zones which are close together, in terms of giving the appropriate unit enough prior warning.
For example: your route takes you through an ATZ and then a MATZ, but the two are seperated by only a few miles. Obviously it would be a poor show to call up the MATZ controller a couple of miles from the boundary, but as we can't talk to two units at the same time, what's the best option?
For example: your route takes you through an ATZ and then a MATZ, but the two are seperated by only a few miles. Obviously it would be a poor show to call up the MATZ controller a couple of miles from the boundary, but as we can't talk to two units at the same time, what's the best option?
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You call up the first zone with "request radar information service, and a handover to [name of 2nd zone] later please".
If the two zones are actually joined they will do it. If there is say a 20 mile gap they might not, if the 2nd one is busy.
Also helps if you tell them you are IFR
If the two zones are actually joined they will do it. If there is say a 20 mile gap they might not, if the 2nd one is busy.
Also helps if you tell them you are IFR
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Also - what type of service is provided by the ATZ?
If it's ATC - they'll probably pass on your details to the Mil and transfer you across at a convenient time for the both of them. MATZ will be expecting you so no problems
If it's A/G / FISO - Rules of the Air only require you to obtain information sufficient to transit the ATZ safely. With that in mind get the information and transfer yourself across as soon as you're through the airfields overhead.
If it's ATC - they'll probably pass on your details to the Mil and transfer you across at a convenient time for the both of them. MATZ will be expecting you so no problems
If it's A/G / FISO - Rules of the Air only require you to obtain information sufficient to transit the ATZ safely. With that in mind get the information and transfer yourself across as soon as you're through the airfields overhead.
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There are two situations -
1. ATZ quickly followed by MATZ.
Call up the MATZ frequency well in advance and establish a service. Make the MATZ transit request. Ask to leave the frequency temporarily to transit the separate ATZ. As soon as finished with the ATZ re-establish comms with the MATZ.
2. MATZ quickly followed by ATZ
Get the MATZ transit in the usual way and then at an appropriate time ask to leave the frequency temporarily to transit the separate ATZ.
Remember that a standalone ATZ is class G. There is no requirement to give 10 minutes or whatever notice. Just get the required info or clearance prior to entry.
Remember also that an ATZ is a very small piece of airspace if you can't fly over then you could easily fly round.
Remember also that it is mandatory to obtain clearance or information as appropriate before flying in an ATZ. There is no such requirement for a MATZ.
Regards,
DFC
1. ATZ quickly followed by MATZ.
Call up the MATZ frequency well in advance and establish a service. Make the MATZ transit request. Ask to leave the frequency temporarily to transit the separate ATZ. As soon as finished with the ATZ re-establish comms with the MATZ.
2. MATZ quickly followed by ATZ
Get the MATZ transit in the usual way and then at an appropriate time ask to leave the frequency temporarily to transit the separate ATZ.
Remember that a standalone ATZ is class G. There is no requirement to give 10 minutes or whatever notice. Just get the required info or clearance prior to entry.
Remember also that an ATZ is a very small piece of airspace if you can't fly over then you could easily fly round.
Remember also that it is mandatory to obtain clearance or information as appropriate before flying in an ATZ. There is no such requirement for a MATZ.
Regards,
DFC
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Depends on controller workload and friendlyness! Bear in mind the workload is a factor of both controllers, as one has to get through to the other by phone! On a nice VFR day with a FIS, I doubt they'd be offering a handover to another MATZ. If you are on a Radar service, they may offer it, or if you are under particularly high workload, you could ask for it. But be polite - don't waste their resources.
I once flew from Yeovilton to Cranfield in a Beagle Pup and was handed over each time - Lyneham, Brize, Benson - new squawk and "call sign only" even though I was only asking for flight information service. Very satisfying.
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In these situations one must be on the ball and be pro-active, and not let ATC forget.
If the zones are adjacent then a handover should be guaranteed but if there is a gap, the first one could just dump you, leaving you to orbit while trying to call up the next one.
It's a bit like the old debate about what to do if given a vector to the localiser but not yet cleared for the approach... are you authorised to intercept the localiser? Not really, but equally you don't want to fly into a hill, and who is responsible for terrain clearance while being vectored???
If the zones are adjacent then a handover should be guaranteed but if there is a gap, the first one could just dump you, leaving you to orbit while trying to call up the next one.
It's a bit like the old debate about what to do if given a vector to the localiser but not yet cleared for the approach... are you authorised to intercept the localiser? Not really, but equally you don't want to fly into a hill, and who is responsible for terrain clearance while being vectored???
