Filing Flight Plan and Clearance

[172driver]

Well IO540 beat me to it, but to add, www.homebriefing.com really IS a fabulous service, IFR or VFR. And it works worldwide

[Longbow55]

Originally Posted by 172driver

Well IO540 beat me to it, but to add, www.homebriefing.com really IS a fabulous service, IFR or VFR. And it works worldwide

172driver, I am goign to use this system on the 3rd. I did like what I saw initially.

[IO540]

Homebriefing works for VFR too. They then address the flight plan as is normal for VFR:

1. departure

2. destination

3. the FIS of each airspace you pass through provided that you have specified at least one waypoint within that FIR

The gotchas I have found, and anybody in ATC will get these wrong occassionally, is if flying to some small airport in which case 2. is a nearby major one; example: if dest is LEAX the FP should go to LEMG (nobody awake at LEAX anyway). But that's VFR flying; always phone both ends before departure and check they have the FP and often they won't.

I think all this is in some flight plan addressing manual; Homebriefing have this on their computer.

[172driver]

Originally Posted by IO540

Homebriefing works for VFR too. They then address the flight plan as is normal for VFR:
1. departure
2. destination
3. the FIS of each airspace you pass through provided that you have specified at least one waypoint within that FIR
The gotchas I have found, and anybody in ATC will get these wrong occassionally, is if flying to some small airport in which case 2. is a nearby major one; example: if dest is LEAX the FP should go to LEMG (nobody awake at LEAX anyway). But that's VFR flying; always phone both ends before departure and check they have the FP and often they won't.
I think all this is in some flight plan addressing manual; Homebriefing have this on their computer.

IO540, I like the asleep part about LEAX - you seem to know your way round here On a more serious note, however, LEAX is technically a non-towered field, so your problem (if indeed it was one) may stem from that. The only problem I ever had with homebriefing was when using it for the first time out of LEMG. Tower actually called the club and asked if they knew such-and-such pilot (my good self), as they had just received a flight plan via the internet / Eurocontrol and had never seen anything like it. Kinda anticipating something along these lines I had told the guys at the club that I was going to file via homebriefing. Tower duly enlightened, flightplan filed, departed w/o hassle. Did elicit something like 'ah, the internet plan' upon call-up

Longbow55 I'm sure you'l love it! It also got nice route-briefing capabilities (incl NOTAMS), a real asset for long x-countries.

[IO540]

Yes, also one cannot fly direct to a place like LEAX without having done a preceeding inter-Schengen stop, which is probably why this problem is rare. But ATC have no excuse - filing a dest of LEAX should clearly tell them to address it to LEMG.

Does Homebriefing offer an ias.org.uk-line multi-leg narrow route briefing. They didn't use to. I will have a look this weekend; going to Germany.

[atsora]

ifr clearance from minor airfield

for any other pilots who need an IFR clearance to join CAS , and their dep airfield cannot help ! File a F Plan in good time , get airborne but make sure you ROCAS , call London Information and ask for a joining clearance . At weekends and Public Hols this could be very difficult because of the amount of traffic but it is usually OK at all other times . The service is H24 . Your request will receive high priority . L Info have direct telephone lines to ALL sectors in the UK. If there is a problem issuing the clearance they will tell you as soon as possible ! As already stated they will activate the plan as well .

Good luck

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by atsora

At weekends and Public Hols this could be very difficult because of the amount of traffic

And you propose what in that case?

Of course - if you could just convince all the idiots, who call London info for no sensible reason not to, then things would be a lot better.

[DFC]

Longbow55,

I can totally understand the reason why ATC did not think you were qualified to accept an IFR clearance on the airways.

No doubt, you are qualified but your comments make it sound like you do not know what you are doing. Things like opting to stay below the minimum safe altitude and referring to flight levels as altitudes and general lack of knowledge of the system start alarm bells ringing. Obviously not having read the procedures in the flight guide or the AIP for obtaining an ATC clearance etc.

The best thing you could do to ease your progress is to go flying with an experienced IR instructor or an experienced and current IR holder who knows the European system. If that is not an option then get a good briefing from one.

--------

I agree that homebriefing .com is a great service and works for both IFR and VFR. However, in the VFR case, Vienna will only address the FPL to the departure arodrome. It is always the responsibility of the departure aerodrome (or it's parent unit) to transmitt departure flight plans. If the flight plan has been received as departure and not destination is it because the departure aerodrome has not done it's job properly.

---

Chilli,

If the FIR is busy, it is OK to call up on the appropriate sector frequency.

Regards,

DFC

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by DFC

If the FIR is busy, it is OK to call up on the appropriate sector frequency.

And once again DFC shows a complete misunderstanding of UK sectorisation.

How would you know which frequency to call on? - one of the reasons why it would not be ok.

Better advice - and the correct answer would be to call an adjacent ATC unit and get them to do it for you - iaw with the same AIP reference I quoted earlier (which, if you read it, does not say anything about contacting the sector mainly for the reason mentioned above).

[IO540]

DFC

Vienna will only address the FPL to the departure arodrome

Nonsense. From an email from Homebriefing:

"[if] you are flying VFR ... we adress your flightplan normally according your filed points along your intented route"

"you just have to ensure that you have at least one waypoint in each FIR. Our FPL system will recognise this point and generates the necessary adresses for that area. These adresses will be checked by an operator and the FPL will be distributed afterwards."

[DFC]

Originally Posted by Chilli Monster

And once again DFC shows a complete misunderstanding of UK sectorisation.
How would you know which frequency to call on? - one of the reasons why it would not be ok.
Better advice - and the correct answer would be to call an adjacent ATC unit and get them to do it for you - iaw with the same AIP reference I quoted earlier (which, if you read it, does not say anything about contacting the sector mainly for the reason mentioned above).

Not disagreeing that if already talking to an ATC unit, they should the the first place to ask however, my comment was in response to your question of what to do if the FIR is called and they are busy.

Here is a quote from the AIP;

4.1.4.3 Requests for joining clearance of Airways for which the Controlling Authorities are London, Scottish or Manchester Control
should be obtained as follows:
(a) From the ATSU with which the aircraft is already in communication; or
(b) from the appropriate FIR Controller (if different from (a));
or, if it is not possible to obtain any form of clearance using (a) or (b), then
(c) on the published frequency of the Airway Controlling Authority.

If I call the FIR to obtain a joining clearance and they are too busy then according to the above, I call the published frequency of the Airway Controlling Authority.

I know the frequency because it is published in the AIP ENR 3.1 and I will have checked it during planning.

The Jepp enroute charts have the frequencies but the layout is rubbish. Aerads are batter in this respect but the coverage is rubbish. So I am stuck with having to check the AIP ENR section.

Surprised you did not know that!

Regards,

DFC

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by DFC

Things like opting to stay below the minimum safe altitude and referring to flight levels as altitudes and general lack of knowledge of the system start alarm bells ringing. Obviously not having read the procedures in the flight guide or the AIP for obtaining an ATC clearance etc.

Alarm bells? Nonsense -- sounds just like a Continental captain...

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by DFC

I know the frequency because it is published in the AIP ENR 3.1 and I will have checked it during planning.

Of course - everybody has access to a copy of the AIP or internet acces to be able to do that when they are doing this plannning (I keep the AIP of every European country in the aircraft for that very reason - especially when you've just been thrown a change of itinerary with only 10 minutes planning time )

The Jepp enroute charts have the frequencies but the layout is rubbish.

In addition to which the frequency's shown tend to be for a block of airspace, but the sectors themselves are not delineated

Aerads are batter in this respect but the coverage is rubbish.

Ditto above

So I am stuck with having to check the AIP ENR section.
Surprised you did not know that!

I know it all too well - I just tend to answer questions taking into account the practicalities of of what actually happens rather than the textbook ideal world which doesn't always exist