Flight Planning Software
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
Flight Planning Software
I am thinking about buying a VFR flight planning software package such as NavBox or Jeppesen Flightstar VFR. Does anyone have any experience of these or other packages. Do you have any recommendations. Do the packages print out a full flight log? Any other information would be helpful.
Tolka
Tolka
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
Likes: 75
From: uk
I have used Navbox Quickplan for many years and find it excellent value. You can print out a plog for the out and return trips and it is easy to edit or modify. In fact, as long as it is up to date, it gives all the information you require except for NOTAMS and weather. The only improvement I can think of would be heights for controlled airspace and danger areas.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: 7nm N of LARCK
Different Programs
NavBox is good for plotting out plogs. Jepp Flitestar is handy for the vertical profile option and the display of controlled airspace. Flitestar also lets you print out sections of Jepp format charts so you can make a route chart for longer trips.
In the UK the CAA charts in MemoryMap are good as you can rubber band your route to avoid controlled airspace and then download it to the GPS or run with it on a PDA. Just check that you have the latest charts or make allowances for changes in airspace. Flying with the PDA display means that you are on an electronic version of the chart you have on your knee.
I’m just down loading PocketFMS to the PDA, having been out and bought a 1Gb compact flash card. PocketFMS is the cheapest, even if you make the donation and get the upgrade
. You’d probably need broadband to download it to your PC economically.
Just a thought. If you do create a route in one flight planning program and down-load it to your GPS, try the GPS in simulator mode feeding in to a different moving map program (some of the planning programs will work as moving maps). It will show up any nasties before you blunder in to controlled airspace.
Happy Planning & Safe Flying,
Richard W.
In the UK the CAA charts in MemoryMap are good as you can rubber band your route to avoid controlled airspace and then download it to the GPS or run with it on a PDA. Just check that you have the latest charts or make allowances for changes in airspace. Flying with the PDA display means that you are on an electronic version of the chart you have on your knee.
I’m just down loading PocketFMS to the PDA, having been out and bought a 1Gb compact flash card. PocketFMS is the cheapest, even if you make the donation and get the upgrade
. You’d probably need broadband to download it to your PC economically.Just a thought. If you do create a route in one flight planning program and down-load it to your GPS, try the GPS in simulator mode feeding in to a different moving map program (some of the planning programs will work as moving maps). It will show up any nasties before you blunder in to controlled airspace.
Happy Planning & Safe Flying,
Richard W.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
My view, despite being a self confessed fan of electronic gadgets in the cockpit, is that for VFR flight planning one needs to have the printed chart. This chart is then used for planning the terrain and airspace avoidance.
Then it's a case of which software one likes for generating the plog.
I'd steer well away from using any flight planning software for any kind of vertical navigation. The only use of it, IMHO, is in accurately calculating fuel usage through climbs and descents, but you won't be doing that kind of stuff unless you have an accurate flowmeter (linked to the GPS), know the aircraft, know about engine management, and are pushing the range of the (accurately characterised) aircraft. In other words, for typical VFR flying, you won't be doing that anyway
To get VFR charts in Flitestar you need to purchase their Raster Charts add-on, about £200 for Europe. You can then print out en route sections as required. This is an acceptable alternative to the printed charts (both legally and to me) and is cheaper than buying all the charts for Europe. But, IMHO, the CAA charts are much clearer for the UK.
Which takes us to Memory Map. Even though this is the only product which can run the CAA charts officially (Oziexplorer can run any map if you can "obtain" a scanned copy) I'd steer away from it because it is a dead end - unless you never intend to venture outside the UK.
Which is why I use Navbox Pro myself, for VFR, or for UK-style IFR (Class G or D).
IFR (airways) is something else. Flitestar IFR is the only suitable product on the UK market, although Navbox Pro will hack away at it well enough if you stick to routes that get through CFMU without too much work.
Then it's a case of which software one likes for generating the plog.
I'd steer well away from using any flight planning software for any kind of vertical navigation. The only use of it, IMHO, is in accurately calculating fuel usage through climbs and descents, but you won't be doing that kind of stuff unless you have an accurate flowmeter (linked to the GPS), know the aircraft, know about engine management, and are pushing the range of the (accurately characterised) aircraft. In other words, for typical VFR flying, you won't be doing that anyway
To get VFR charts in Flitestar you need to purchase their Raster Charts add-on, about £200 for Europe. You can then print out en route sections as required. This is an acceptable alternative to the printed charts (both legally and to me) and is cheaper than buying all the charts for Europe. But, IMHO, the CAA charts are much clearer for the UK.
Which takes us to Memory Map. Even though this is the only product which can run the CAA charts officially (Oziexplorer can run any map if you can "obtain" a scanned copy) I'd steer away from it because it is a dead end - unless you never intend to venture outside the UK.
Which is why I use Navbox Pro myself, for VFR, or for UK-style IFR (Class G or D).
IFR (airways) is something else. Flitestar IFR is the only suitable product on the UK market, although Navbox Pro will hack away at it well enough if you stick to routes that get through CFMU without too much work.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire
Does Navbox Pro have moving map support for a PDA (pocket PC) ? I know it has this feature on a PC ...
I use a combination of Flitestar/FliteMap on a tablet PC and Memory Map on a PDA ... have looked at Navbox in the past, but was put off by the lack of detail on the maps and lack of PDA support. If it's all much better now, I guess I'll have to look again ...
FF
I use a combination of Flitestar/FliteMap on a tablet PC and Memory Map on a PDA ... have looked at Navbox in the past, but was put off by the lack of detail on the maps and lack of PDA support. If it's all much better now, I guess I'll have to look again ...
FF
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
No pocket/pc version of Navbox. They planned one but it never came.
No detailed maps in Navbox. The maps are more bare than Jepp's base maps, making it less than useful IMHO with a GPS input.
Flitemap (Flitestar with GPS input option) is adequate with the Jepp base data (if you have a printed chart to hand, and correlate the airspace shapes) and pretty slick with their Raster Charts. But it has been discontinued, though data updates are still available (they are the same as for Flitestar).
However, I was once flying along somewhere near Greece and found a ~ 5 mile error between Flitemap, and my KLN94/KMD550. I checked and cross-checked with VORs etc, and a PDA GPS running Oziexplorer. Flitemap was the odd one out. I rebooted the tablet PC and from then on it was fine. Very odd... just that one occassion but it has me worried. I don't know if this bug was quietly fixed with their update patch (on their website) which is meant to fix the "plain text" input mode crashing (and it does).
No detailed maps in Navbox. The maps are more bare than Jepp's base maps, making it less than useful IMHO with a GPS input.
Flitemap (Flitestar with GPS input option) is adequate with the Jepp base data (if you have a printed chart to hand, and correlate the airspace shapes) and pretty slick with their Raster Charts. But it has been discontinued, though data updates are still available (they are the same as for Flitestar).
However, I was once flying along somewhere near Greece and found a ~ 5 mile error between Flitemap, and my KLN94/KMD550. I checked and cross-checked with VORs etc, and a PDA GPS running Oziexplorer. Flitemap was the odd one out. I rebooted the tablet PC and from then on it was fine. Very odd... just that one occassion but it has me worried. I don't know if this bug was quietly fixed with their update patch (on their website) which is meant to fix the "plain text" input mode crashing (and it does).
PPruNaholic!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
From: Buckinghamshire
What additional features does Navbox Pro have for VFR flight which justify the much higher price?
Andy
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Errrr....
Wot's wrong wiv using a proper GPS wiv a proper updatable Jepp database and uploading your route from Navbox? That way you get runway headings, freqs etc.
Being a bear of very little mental capacity I prefer a "track up" orientation so all I have to do is keep the little aeroplane on the line that's running vertically up my screen. Fortunately this is not too difficult so I have plenty of time to indulge in plane-spotting. The downside of Memory Map is that, while it can give you "track up" it can't turn the place names the right way up so you either spend your time figuring whether it's a right or left turn to regain track or else you try to turn your head upside down to work out the name of that airfield in your 2 o'clock.
Oh - and the other thing was that the pocket PC I was using kept crashing (is Windoze the best OS for aviating?)
Mike
Wot's wrong wiv using a proper GPS wiv a proper updatable Jepp database and uploading your route from Navbox? That way you get runway headings, freqs etc.
Being a bear of very little mental capacity I prefer a "track up" orientation so all I have to do is keep the little aeroplane on the line that's running vertically up my screen. Fortunately this is not too difficult so I have plenty of time to indulge in plane-spotting. The downside of Memory Map is that, while it can give you "track up" it can't turn the place names the right way up so you either spend your time figuring whether it's a right or left turn to regain track or else you try to turn your head upside down to work out the name of that airfield in your 2 o'clock.
Oh - and the other thing was that the pocket PC I was using kept crashing (is Windoze the best OS for aviating?)
Mike
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
I agree completely re windoze (or the products running under it, one can never tell) being too unstable for serious usage.
It's just that
a) Dedicated aviation GPSs tend to be rather limited functionally, and
b) Some people want to do other things with the unit, e.g. run windoze-based flight planning software on it, or get internet access for weather etc.
I think far and away the best aviation GPS is the new Avmap EKP IV (about £1050 from Harry M) - the only real drawback is that there is as yet no Navbox interface for it for route download.
I have just bought the Motion LS800 tablet, so watch this space
It's just that
a) Dedicated aviation GPSs tend to be rather limited functionally, and
b) Some people want to do other things with the unit, e.g. run windoze-based flight planning software on it, or get internet access for weather etc.
I think far and away the best aviation GPS is the new Avmap EKP IV (about £1050 from Harry M) - the only real drawback is that there is as yet no Navbox interface for it for route download.
I have just bought the Motion LS800 tablet, so watch this space
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
From: Anywhere
Originally Posted by Mike Cross
Wot's wrong wiv using a proper GPS wiv a proper updatable Jepp database and uploading your route from Navbox? That way you get runway headings, freqs etc.
Therefore no external route upload into systems like GNS430/530.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
It would not take more than a day to reverse engineer the garmin crossfill protocol. You would need an ARINC protocol analyser. Then, potentially any flight planning program could do it.
It would not be legal, but would be a super feature.
It's probably been done, but it's unlikely to be advertised
Being able to plan your route and then view your progress over that same planned route is a major advance in safety, as it eliminates the most common human errors. It's a shame that we live in such an anally retentive world.
Mind you, being able to connect a keypad to these units would go a long way...
It would not be legal, but would be a super feature.
It's probably been done, but it's unlikely to be advertised
Being able to plan your route and then view your progress over that same planned route is a major advance in safety, as it eliminates the most common human errors. It's a shame that we live in such an anally retentive world.
Mind you, being able to connect a keypad to these units would go a long way...
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
I would suggest an embedded OS, as in a proper GPS, is more reliable than either Pocket PC or Windoze mate!
For example my pda is about 2, maybe 3 years old. If I had purchased a Garmin at the time, I'd be looking at the great new models released since then and with all the feature that I don't have. But with PocketFMS, I just download the latest version and instantly have all th new features.
I also feel that the PocketFMS team are much closer to their customers than Garmin, in that they readily take suggestions and incorporate them into the next version.
Reliability was an issue when I first started using it 2-3 years ago, but that seems to be something that is simply a distant memory; at least for me.
But more than anything I would say it's biggest advantages are the layout and clarity of the display, the ability to customise it significantly, and the seamless integration with the PC. All preflight and post flight work can be done on a pc, and simply synced with the PDA.
The major disadvantage is the PDA's screen readability in strong sunlight. I find the Garmins screen to be more readable in direct sunlight. I would also trust the Garmin (Jeppesen) data to a much greater extent, but in the end I wouldn't trust either completely. My routes will always be planned on a paper chart, and the gps is simply to make sure I say on course.
dp
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
PDA problems are
a) screens
The not-cheap polarised screen, variously called "all-view" etc etc and available on tablets, doesn't appear to be out on PDAs yet
b) accidental touching
It is so easy to b*gger up a PDA GPS by touching the screen. I thought about getting a pocket/pc expert friend of mine to write a little driver which (when executed) would capture and dump all keystrokes but in the end I never bothered. Obviously one has to disable all the preprogrammed buttons, but not all buttons can be disabled, IME.
Whereas a tablet PC comes with an inductive screen which can be touched without problems.
a) screens
The not-cheap polarised screen, variously called "all-view" etc etc and available on tablets, doesn't appear to be out on PDAs yet
b) accidental touching
It is so easy to b*gger up a PDA GPS by touching the screen. I thought about getting a pocket/pc expert friend of mine to write a little driver which (when executed) would capture and dump all keystrokes but in the end I never bothered. Obviously one has to disable all the preprogrammed buttons, but not all buttons can be disabled, IME.
Whereas a tablet PC comes with an inductive screen which can be touched without problems.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
CoPilot with FlightMaster for the Palm Pilot devices. CoPilot is the planning application (does W&B and all sorts) and integrates with the Moving Map GPS part which is FlightMaster.
Download from http://www.flight-master.com/download.html
Additional databases available from: http://www.flight-master.com/database.html
Been using it for years and it does the job IMO.
Download from http://www.flight-master.com/download.html
Additional databases available from: http://www.flight-master.com/database.html
Been using it for years and it does the job IMO.