The unspeakable... engine failures!

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

Hey there,

I had an engine failure early last year. Had only been passed 4 months, but it was OK. Landed in a good field and no harm done. But have been excessively nervous about flying ever since. I am tough though and it wont stop me doing the hobby I enjoy so much (afterward!).

Anyone on here had one, and been through a similar experience? Care to share some tips with a newbie?

Cheers.

J

[kevmusic]

I haven't got my PPL yet, but all I can say is........WELL DONE!!
You obviously did all the right things for an event which might occur to most of us at some time during our flying careers. Get your a**e back in the air ASAP!!

Kev

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

Thanks Kev,

Does sound a bit lame doesn't it? Considering it went fine! Am good at field spotting now though remember to keep a good look out. And good luck if you are learning!

ssbs

['India-Mike]

Had one three weeks ago. Chipmunk. Crankshaft failure. Engine stopped instantly and without warning @ 1000'. Beach landing. Airframe undamaged.

My smug self-satisfaction disappeared instantly when I realised I'm only going to be as good as my next one.....and that for me, is the main lesson.

Article in current Gasco pondering why so many forced landings go wrong - an interesting, but in my humble opinion given my recent experience, non-article.

[Send Clowns]

Bl**dy hell mate - I have 1000 hous and I still haven't had a serious problem, let alone the donkey stop on a single! Well done walking away, even bette if the aircraft suffered little damage! Don't think less of yourself for your fears. They are not lame. The thing that nags us all (if we are good pilots) when we fly singles happened, and I know this would make me more nervous; I have been in car crashes - the worst happening with an artic rear-ending me, nothing I could do. Got away with that by luck, and it made me a nervous driver. But I got over it, as I am sure you will your flying nerves.

Happy and safe flying!

[Whirlybird]

Firstly, well done for coping so well. Secondly, I'm not surprised it's made you nervous. It doesn't sound lame at all; it fact I'd be VERY surprised it hadn't affected you that way!!! Any emergency reminds us that flying is potentially dangerous. After an incident early in my flying career, I was so scared of flying solo that a very sympathetic instructor had to fly with me, then get out and let me do one circuit, just like it was a first solo all over again. So don't worry about being scared; that's normal and you'd be very odd if you weren't. But it WILL lessen with time and experience. I was going to say it will pass, but it probably won't, not completely. You will always be aware that something can go wrong, and that will make you a far, far better pilot than people who've never had any emergency, and deep down believe that these things only happen to other people. So keep flying, try to enjoy it, and.....don't try so hard with the stiff upper lip.

[Genghis the Engineer]

You were clearly good at spotting fields, but I'm willing to bet that you'll be a lot better now!

Anyhow, well flown. Out of interest, what were you flying?

G

[Tarq57]

Hi, I've had two engine failures, one taxiing out (carb ice) the other taxiing out (forget to check fuel was turned on). Perhaps there's some tips you could share with me?
When I was much younger I found a stack of accident reports at the local club, and started to peruse. This made me both nervous, but also interested in things technical, things pilot-errory, things weather related etc. Have kept an interest up in how things work and why they sometimes don't ever since. Now I'm not suggesting for a nanosecond that you could have prevented the engine failure, but, if you haven't started doing so already, you might want to turn that nervey stuff into a keen enquiry about what engines like (and not). There are plenty of threads here to start research. That knowledge may not prevent you experiencing another engine failure, but it is very likely to make you realise how unlucky you were to actually experience even one. Most of us don't.
Well done, and get back on the horse.

[Primetime_Joanna]

Good luck mate! I am sure you will get over it in time! Hopefully that should be the only one you get.

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate hearing about similar experiences!

I was in a Thruster microlight. I was at about 1600' so had some good time to get to the ground - though it went really quickly. A valve broke off the head and mashed up a carburettor before throwing 'something' out of the side of the casing. I have been 'very' interested in the workings of engines ever since. And my pre-flights take longer!

I don't intend to give up the hobbie. It cost me too much in the first place! and I have always wanted to do it. And I am sure I will get the old adrenalin rush pre-flight back again!

[Mark 1]

I had a couple of FLs within a short period of time.
It did make me a bit edgy for a little while, and I still tend to be eyeing up fields all the time while flying - probably no bad thing.
The apprehension will soon pass, and it will leave you mentally better prepared in the future. Its much better to rely on experience than luck.

More recently I had a fuel pump failure and ensuing silence. The reactions and drills came more-or-less automatically. Fortunately the boost pump got the fuel flowing again, and it all ended without incident.

Well done for pulling off a successful FL.

[Go Smoke]

I've had 1000's of engine out landings as I'm also a glider pilot.

Flying without an engine and also having to make a handful of genuine field landings every year in gliders certainly hones your situational awareness, ability to pick good fields and engine out handling skillls and judgement

Flying power, I did have the donk stop on me once - heart immediately shot into my mouth and nerves were jangling before I reminded myself that "for goodness sake, you're a glider pilot. This is bread and butter stuff."
Subsequent landing was no problem - was still very relieved to be down safely though.

Actually I'm always relieved to be down safely - even having done a large number of field landings over the years in gliders, the workload is always high and there is always some tension.
Still love the silence and peace that overwhelms as all the motion stops and you flick the power off to hear the birds singing, bees buzzing and smell the cowdung and grass!

Congrats on handling your FL so well - sounds like a job well done.

............................................................ ............................................................ .....

Thought I'd also add that I have also trashed (£16k worth of damage) one glider in a field landing - totally my fault.
It's a deeply unpleasant experience!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by sucksqueezeBANGstop

Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate hearing about similar experiences!
I was in a Thruster microlight. I was at about 1600' so had some good time to get to the ground - though it went really quickly. A valve broke off the head and mashed up a carburettor before throwing 'something' out of the side of the casing. I have been 'very' interested in the workings of engines ever since. And my pre-flights take longer!
I don't intend to give up the hobbie. It cost me too much in the first place! and I have always wanted to do it. And I am sure I will get the old adrenalin rush pre-flight back again!

Well, you at-least managed to pick an aeroplane that would handle a field landing well. I've always been scared of a real one in something like a PA28, which would be much harder.

Seriously, you now know why your instructors were so keen on PFLs! But, use that nervousness to your advantage, let other people learn from your experience, and also make yourself doubly careful - then make that care just part of your flying and get on with enjoying yourself.

And well done,

G

Also been in the odd field with a microlight!

[SATCO Biggin]

With a total engine failure in a single you have to do the best you can and in this example to pilots best efforts resulted in a happy ending. I get more nervous about a partial failure that leaves you with a load of decisions to make.

Several years ago I was taking off from Bembridge in the uphill direction (runway 30 I think its called) in an AA5 when the donkey lost a load of power passing about 50 feet in the climb. I considered closing the power off and landing back on what runway was remaining but there did not look like enough from where I was sitting. So I finally decided to take the problem over the hedge at the end of the strip and see what options lay beyond. Just then the engine picked up full power again and the decision then changed to whether I could trust it to continue or would it die on me somewhere more critical.

To cut a long story short (too late you say) the whole episode only lasted about 5 seconds but was long enough to require several different decisions any of which could have been wrong.

(In the end I climb up over the aerodrome and recovered my confidence in Mr Lycoming before setting off across the shortest stretch of water.)

I still do not like that critical bit of flying that is between ground level and 500 feet.

[AerocatS2A]

I had a pilot induced engine failure once. Aerobatics in a type I hadn't turned upside down before, stall turn the wrong way, a little negative over the top, no fuel to engine, engine stops, no airflow over prop, prop stops, pilot panics.

It was a Tiger Moth so no starter and not enough height for me to be tempted to try to dive to get it windmilling. Runway was directly below, so down we go!

Couldn't have happened in a better aircraft, just set up high then sideslip to bring the aiming point back towards the threshold. Probably did one of my best landings, must have been the extra concentration .

Halfway down I realised I'd been stall turning to the left, against the engine torque, which is why it had been reluctant to go and was tending to (torque) roll wings level as the nose yawed around. This turned the yawing moment into a nose down pitching moment hence the slight negative G followed promptly by fuel starvation.

Had another one in the Tiger Moth but got it going again almost straight away. Had a large passenger in the front who, after dissapearing down into the cockpit from G forces in a loop, turned the fuel off while getting himself comfortable again.

As there's only four engine related controls in the Tiger, fuel, throttle, and two mag switches, it didn't take long to figure out what was wrong and rectify the problem. I'm glad that one worked out, because I wasn't so conveniently placed over a runway .

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

First off, congratulations on a successful forced landing. It’s an invaluable piece of experience.

I’ve had two engine failures, both self-inflicted, over the years. The first was with 80 hours total time and 10 hours in ‘WK (Rans S6). This one involved the seizure of the Rotax 582 over the Yorkshire Moors. It didn’t seize solid and could be re-started, but only kept going for about 20 seconds before grinding to a halt again. At that stage I thought it was a fuel blockage, as the aircraft was new. I made something of a mess of the forced landing, as I wasn’t sure of the wind direction and most of the better fields had livestock in them. The end result was nosed over in a bog, personal indignity confined to wet and muddy feet. The problem was lack of oil, as the sight gauge on the external oil tank was plumbed in so that it never showed less that one third full, even when the tank was empty. No excuses though, the cockpit was plastered with signs saying “Fill Oil Tank Before Each Flight”. Until I’d found the cause of the problem, I was worried about getting back in that aeroplane. Once I knew what the problem was, I was happy to take my expensively won knowledge back in to the air.

The second FL was as a result of running a fuel tank dry and not being able to get the flow going from the other full tank. I landed in a recently harvested field, sorted the problem out and continued en-route. I’d been talking to Finningley at the time, so they kindly directed one of their training aircraft over to see if I was OK. Other folk came out from Sandtoft to see if I needed any help. I didn’t realise that Finningley had advised Bagby, my destination, that I’d had a forced landing. When I arrived there Phil peered at me and said “ Oh, it’s you. You didn’t run out of oil again did you?”

As mentioned above, both incidents were self-inflicted to a greater or lesser extend. After 200 hours on the 582 I changed over to a 912 Rotax. There’s nothing inherently unrelaible about well maintained two strokes, but I’ve just replaced the 912 with a new one at TBO (1,200hrs), it’s been trouble free all the way.

Forced landings that you walk away from are invaluable, better still if the aeroplane is still usable. It’s interesting to watch the instructors face after advising you that you’ll be doing PFL’s and you reply: “Ah, PRACTICE forced landings, that’s nice, all my recent ones have been real!” On an IR training dual cross-country in California my instructor invited me to lift the foggles and have a look around. We were over the middle of the Los Angeles basin, buildings as far as you could see. “Good to tell you’ve never flown behind a two stroke” was my comment.

Safe Flying
Richard W.

[IO540]

Hi, I've had two engine failures, one taxiing out (carb ice) the other taxiing out (forget to check fuel was turned on). Perhaps there's some tips you could share with me?

On the first one, buy a modern fuel injected aircraft.

On the second one, follow the checklist. What matters is that you don't get airborne with the fuel still shut off. The preflight checklist should be arranged to make it impossible to get airborne - but I know it often isn't, or people don't understand why certain items are in a certain order. One should taxi out (to the engine test location) on one tank (typically the less full one), then switch over to the other one and do the engine checks; this should ensure that the engine will stop if the fuel has been shut off all along.

Personally I don't worry about engine failures - they barely feature in the accident stats. Pilot errors are way ahead. As with all flying, always have an escape route, and in this case it involves carrying a proper life raft when over water (jackets are of little use around the UK), and not flying over vast areas of forest.

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

Well, you at-least managed to pick an aeroplane that would handle a field landing well. I've always been scared of a real one in something like a PA28, which would be much harder.

I am just having instruction on the Cessna 152 Aerobat and I do wonder what it would be like to to experience a FL. The Thruster does everything at 55 knots, and is ideal for field landings! They even make them with 'big' tyres now especially for field landings.

And to the glider guy with 1000+ FL. I think that it must be a great discipline to start your flying experience with gliding skills. Never relying on an engine must make FL a bit of doddle, once you have worked out your descent rate!

Thanks

[G-SP0T]

i had one downwind last summer. went up with an instructor just to get my confidance back later the same week. still would never fly tht plane again though!

best of luck if u do get bck up...its the game we play!

[Tarq57]

IO540
My (embarassing) engine-failure examples were designed to illustrate just that - pilot induced (or error). On the first one it restarted fine with lean mix. and carb heat (0320, cold and misty pre-dawn, c172).On the second, well it's amazing how long an 0540 will run on the float chamber. 2min taxi, 4min runup, halfway through a backtrack. If I hadn't done a full runup it would've stopped in the takeoff roll, or maybe just airborne. Not an excuse, but an interesting bit of HF, this is the only aircraft I've ever rented where the fuel is turned off after shutdown (the owners proceedure), all others the tap stays on all the time, making it almost habitual to overlook that important pre-start checklist item. Lesson learned.
On your tip to start on one, run up on the other, I was taught to select fullest tank (if applicable) for start, and not to change it before takeoff. Having seen how long an engine can run on the float chamber illustrates why rather well.
Oh to be able to afford an aeroplane. Fuel injected or not.