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[Frank Poncherello]

Greetings,

Was flying out of LGW yesterday (about 1600) and London Centre was helping out a fella in a four seater a/c who had got lost. We heard he was unable to see the field,........... ended up getting vectors over the field for about 6 fly by's, his voice getting progressively more tense. I think he was unable to maintain VMC.

Any ideas how the story ended?!?!

FP

[DownIn3Green]

Happens all the time, although maybe not always in the London FIR...

I was an ATCO from 1981 to 1984 working the RASZ (Radar Advisory Service Zone) at RAF Upper Heyford. The number of small airfields under our airspace boggled my mind...

Every week or 2 we had "lost" pilots that we had to try to identify by their "raw" data (transponders were not the norm back then), distinguish them from the multitude of gliders operating and vector them to an airfield where they could make a safe recovery...

It was no big deal for us, but usually the local press made us out to be "heroes" and with pomp and circumstance sometimes we actually believed it ourselves...

The difference between training then and now is enormous, but I've often wondered if those fledgling pilots are now better off for their experience in that less regulation era, making them better Commanders of BA (oe whatever airline) Jumbos...?

[cjhants]

it amazes me that the CAA dont make it compulsory for us all to carry at least a hand held GPS. they are available for the cost of about 2 hours flying, work most of the time, and mine is a nice comfort just in case the ground does not seem to correspond to the map. it can point me home, and beep at me if im about to bust someones airspace.
then the CAA could save some cash on 121.5 staff. simple aint it.
already starting to duck incoming

[gowaz]

HE LANDED SAFELY, EVENTUALLY. WITH HELP FROM A "GLOBESPAN" CALLSIGN RELAYING FROM LONDON CENTRE. THE GUY WAS LUCKY...
HE WAS "ADVISED" TO PERHAPS DIVERT TO BIGGIN, BUT PRESSED ON LUCKY NO HIGH GROUND. WEATHER SOUNDED VERY SCUDDY, LOW VIS AND LOW CLOUD. LEARN THE LESSON FROM HIS MISTAKE! .

[Whaledog]

GPS ??? Give me a break. If you don't ALWAYs know where you are Get the hell out of the air and stay on the ground. Aviation is getting a bunch of Gismo wonders as " pilots". What ever happened to basic navigation knowage.
Yes, Gps is a nice tool but anyone how can't naviagte without one should stop flying. And hopfully before they kill someone other than themselves.

[cjhants]

agreed whaledog, it was said very much tongue in cheek. but if i have to carry a second pair of glasses (just in case), i can see some bright spark deciding we need GPS - just in case.
i`ve only been a bit unsure of position once, and managed to sort it out by map and ground, but the memory still scares me.
still glad all ended ok at the weekend.

[Dizzee Rascal]

[quote=gowaz]
HE WAS "ADVISED" TO PERHAPS DIVERT TO BIGGIN, BUT PRESSED ON LUCKY NO HIGH GROUND. quote]

Buggers at TC KK trying to get their own back on us after one of ours got lost in the Gatwick Zone, not this time! Glad this guy managed to sort it out, I'm also glad he didn't divert to us as I was on duty and he may have met the 600ft ground if he was as low as it sounds!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Originally Posted by cjhants

but if i have to carry a second pair of glasses (just in case)

Glasses can and do spontaneously self-destruct. It has happened to me. Not whilst flying, but if it happens in the air next time then the spare pair will be somewhat necessary.

(The spontaneous self-destruction failure mode which has happened to me - twice - is that the spring in the earpiece fails suddenly for no particular reason.)

[HiFranc]

Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat

Glasses can and do spontaneously self-destruct. It has happened to me. Not whilst flying, but if it happens in the air next time then the spare pair will be somewhat necessary.
(The spontaneous self-destruction failure mode which has happened to me - twice - is that the spring in the earpiece fails suddenly for no particular reason.)

The screws connecting the arms to the frame[1] on my glasses have come undone so many times that I've got adept at affecting a temporary repair with a paper clip until I can get to the shop for them to repair them properly.[2] They have a habit of falling apart on the way to work.

[1] Which also means the lens falls out of that side as well.
[2] About once or twice a year.

[chevvron]

Wonder why he called a TC frequency when the local LARS unit could have sorted him out much quicker and more efficiently.
GPS might not have been of much use if he was operating from a strip which wouldn't be on the database.
I had a guy a few weeks ago called up 'uncertain of position'. Couldn't see him on my D/F bearing, so homed him towards me until I saw something; turn for identification THEN he came into SSR coverage, so I gave him a steer for his destination, then handed him over to the LARS unit closest to it. Simple eh?

[jabberwok]

Simple eh?

In that case yes - but it isn't always so.

Some pilots ask us for help very quickly indeed and can be helped because their thinking processes are still sharp. These pilots can be sorted out without any great fuss - sometimes with just a couple of calls.

Other pilots get into a much deeper hole before reaching for the radio. By the time they call us they can be just a couple of steps away from blind panic. I dread these because, in most cases, the pilot's brain has already turned to jelly. The guy is fighting panic, is trying to fly the aircraft (sometimes in miserable weather) and is trying to call for help on the radio. The usual result is that 99% of concentration is now locked onto flying the aircraft (tunnel focus effect) and the radio calls are in horrible, fractured English which may only be marginally comprehensible.

When you get a call like this your heart sinks because you know the situation is already bad. As much as you desparately want to help the pilot you know that he's already mentally overloaded - long pauses between your call and his reply, high pitched voice, far too many "say again's". Once the pilot gets past the ability to comprehend and act then all we can do is watch, with a horrible sick feeling in our gut.

The time taken to reach this "operationally impaired" state can vary enormously and it depends on each individual's crisis point. Some lucky people can build up to this slowly and can recognise the symptoms - and can usually act on these to resolve the issue. For other people this crisis point can happen so quickly that they go from normal, sensibly thinking humans to zombies in a flash. I'm not the only one here who may have seen this happen. A pilot may appear quite relaxed as the pressure builds but then you get no reply and look over to see a very clammy face, frozen and staring out of the window.

If things start getting tough and possibly out of hand I would like to see pilots ask for help earlier. No loss of face here guys - and once you talk to someone else it can reduce your workload and get you thinking again very quickly (half the battle to winning).

For pilots who have reached panic level there is no golden answer - your immediate future is literally in your own hands. If you are really lucky and have a nanosecond of clear thought you may possibly be able to recognise the danger and get the panic under control. Easy to say sitting in my chair but I've overcome panic in the past and saved my life.

If you ever hear a pilot on the radio who is in trouble it can range from almost amusing to absolutely ghastly. If you are in the unenviable position of being the only one to help (other aircraft outside ATC coverage) then forget the films you have seen, put your own thinking cap on and try your best.

If you recognise any level of panic in the voice then accept that instructions are useless. First goal is getting the panic under control so you need to radiate total confidence and reassurance. Get the pilot to believe that you are almost in the seat next to him - nice, assured and relaxing talk needed here. Once the situation becomes less fraught THEN you can start the serious work. No magic stick here either - the answers vary with the situation. Just have a clear mind of your own actions and don't get confused yourself or impart any hint of indecision to the lost pilot.

I hate to say it but sometimes you will simply run out of time.