FAA LICENCE IN THE UK !?!?!

[Jonny2422]

Hello, I obtained my FAA PPL last autumn and I want to go flying in the UK. Ive been my nearest flight school and they think i need to do a conversion. Ive looked at LASORS and the ANO s26 and i cant get a clear answer out of it. HELP PLEASE !

[Founder]

You can use your FAA license as long as you flyg aircraft that are US-Registered... But you are not allowed to fly aircraft with a UK register or any other european registered aircraft...

Best Regards
Tim

[172driver]

Originally Posted by Founder

You can use your FAA license as long as you flyg aircraft that are US-Registered... But you are not allowed to fly aircraft with a UK register or any other european registered aircraft...
Best Regards
Tim

Sorry Founder Tim - you got it completley wrong.

Here are the facts:

You CAN fly any G-reg but are limited to day VFR within the UK ( the UK being the only country in Europe to recognise the FAA ticket w/o any further paperwork).

You CAN fly any European reg, provided you have a 'Certificate of Recognition' (name varies from country to country) from the country of register. These are national certificates that vary in validity (and privileges) from about 8 months (Spain) to indefinite (Austria).

And, of course, you can fly any N-reg to your hearts' delight anywhere on the planet.

So, Jonny, go ahead and enjoy your flying

[Founder]

Originally Posted by 172driver

Sorry Founder Tim - you got it completley wrong.
Here are the facts:
You CAN fly any G-reg but are limited to day VFR within the UK ( the UK being the only country in Europe to recognise the FAA ticket w/o any further paperwork).
You CAN fly any European reg, provided you have a 'Certificate of Recognition' (name varies from country to country) from the country of register. These are national certificates that vary in validity (and privileges) from about 8 months (Spain) to indefinite (Austria).
And, of course, you can fly any N-reg to your hearts' delight anywhere on the planet.
So, Jonny, go ahead and enjoy your flying

Ah didn't know about those rules in the UK, but in Sweden you are not allowed to fly a Swedish registered aircraft without a JAA license, I think it's the same with the rest of the scandinavian countries... I assumed that those rules were standard JAA rules but as in so many other cases, many JAA rules doesn't apply to the UK...

Best Regards
Tim

[172driver]

Tim, that's got nothing to do with the CAA (UK). I'm pretty sure if you called your CAA (whatever name they have) and enquired you'd get an answer along the lines of my post.

Now, something to understand is, that these people don't necessarily volunteer this info! They've got to protect their home market (flying schools), so you may have to dig hard and deep

[Founder]

Originally Posted by 172driver

Tim, that's got nothing to do with the CAA (UK). I'm pretty sure if you called your CAA (whatever name they have) and enquired you'd get an answer along the lines of my post.
Now, something to understand is, that these people don't necessarily volunteer this info! They've got to protect their home market (flying schools), so you may have to dig hard and deep

In Sweden there is no other license or rules other than JAR anymore, the old rules were all made obsolete when a complete transition was made to JAR in the year 2000. The previous rules BCL which were the ones regulating all Swedish aviation were in other words scrapped... There are still some "modifications" made to the JAR in Sweden but they are very few. All training and all licensing is made with JAR...

/Tim

[dublinpilot]

You CAN fly any G-reg but are limited to day VFR within the UK ( the UK being the only country in Europe to recognise the FAA ticket w/o any further paperwork).

No doubt 2 Donkeys will be along shortly to remind you that there is no "Day" restriction. It's simply restricted to VFR.

There is also no "within the UK" restriction. The CAA validates automatically (without paperwork) an FAA licence for flights in a G registered aircraft worldwide, not just the UK.

Also the UK is not the only country that recognises the FAA licence without any further paperwork. The Irish Aviation Authority also recognised the FAA licence without any paperwork, but in this case, there is a Day restriction, and there is a "Republic of Ireland only" geographic restriction.

dp

[2Donkeys]

No doubt 2 Donkeys will be along shortly to remind you that there is no "Day" restriction. It's simply restricted to VFR.

You're doing my job for me!

There is actually no VFR-only restriction either. The holder of an ICAO IR (of which the FAA's IR is an example) is entitled to fly under IFR outside controlled airspace in the UK in a G-reg (regardless of weather conditions), without further ado.

This is quite separate from being able to apply for an IMC rating.

2D

[dublinpilot]

You're doing my job for me!

You say it often enough, it starts to sink in

There is actually no VFR-only restriction either.

You'll need to repeat this one a few times, then it will sink in too

dp

[Henry Hallam]

The reference for this that you can quote is in CAP 393 Air Navigation Order, get the latest version from the CAA website at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF

The bit to look at is Section 1 / Part 4 / Paragraph 26.4.a:
"For the purposes of this Part of this Order:
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a
Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence
or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory, purporting in
either case to authorise the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an
aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot
only, shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a
licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:
(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose
of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he
receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or
(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in
controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the
Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;"

Now... this is all very well but what about the class ratings, how do we find out which aircraft those of us with FAA PPLs can legally fly? Is it defined by the FAA's Single Engine Land class, or by the JAA's Single Engine Piston? What about aircraft only certified in the UK? What about microlights which would be SEL in the US but require a microlight rating in the UK?

Any answers?

[2Donkeys]

To the extent that the licence is rendered valid, the FAA certificate holder can fly any aircraft which he is entitled to fly on his FAA ticket. The fact that a JAA licence holder would have different class-rating restrictions is not relevant.

2D

[Lower the Nose!]

Originally Posted by Henry Hallam

how do we find out which aircraft those of us with FAA PPLs can legally fly? Is it defined by the FAA's Single Engine Land class, or by the JAA's Single Engine Piston? What about aircraft only certified in the UK? What about microlights which would be SEL in the US but require a microlight rating in the UK?

Any answers?

On the microlight question, I was told over the phone by the CAA licensing division a couple of days ago that nobody had ever asked this question before, and I should put it in writing to get a ruling. I have now done so and await the CAA's verdict.

[Julian]

2D,

Would they not still have to undertake differences training for a microlight before being cut lose?

Julian.

[2Donkeys]

An FAA PPL SEL does not give the right to fly Microlights, so far as I am aware... Differences training is not relevant, and would not help since it applies only to JAA licences.

2D

[Lower the Nose!]

Originally Posted by 2Donkeys

An FAA PPL SEL does not give the right to fly Microlights, so far as I am aware... Differences training is not relevant, and would not help since it applies only to JAA licences.
2D

Why wouldn't it? My argument is based on the following from Section A7 of LASORS:

A licence issued by any other ICAO Contracting State
(including a JAA State that has not yet been
recommended for mutual recognition) is also deemed
to be valid under the ANO for the purposes of flying a
UK registered aircraft, providing that the licence and
medical are valid in accordance with the rules/laws of
the issuing State, and the CAA does not in the
particular case give direction to the contrary.

In the US the FAA PPL undoubtedly confers the right to fly microlights. The implication of the above is that this right would also be recognised for the purposes of flying microlights in the UK, if you accept that microlights count under the definition of aircraft. Unless of course the CAA deems otherwise, and the loophole in the regs is clearly available if they choose to use it.

[2Donkeys]

It was my understanding that an FAA SEL-holder was not entitled without additional training to jump into a weight-shift microlight.

Is that not the case?

[Henry Hallam]

LtN, please keep us informed! In my personal case I want to fly a 3-axis microlight, not weight-shift, but would be interested to hear what they have to say for either situation.

[Lower the Nose!]

I am pretty sure that there are no licensing requirements whatsoever to fly single seater, flexwing ultralights in the US (and there are plenty of people over here crazy enough to try it without training).

However I had fixed wing microlights in mind, which in the US are being promoted as sport planes: Jabirus, Ikarus C42 and the like. By all accounts these are comparable to regular single engine piston stuff in performance and handling, which is why the FAA private certificate is considered good enough for them. You would want differences training of course, but then so would you if transitioning from a Cessna to a Piper. I am hopeful common sense will prevail in the halls of the CAA....

[2Donkeys]

Careful with the use of the term "differences training". It has a specific meaning in the context of JAA licences which is not what you intend here.

[Lower the Nose!]

Agreed, and my fear is the CAA could use the requirement for differences training to specify microlights as being excluded from the provision recognising FAA licences. They might argue they can require differences training to be logged against a JAR licence but cannot do so with a foreign licence. Ultimately this comes down almost to a philosophical point: is the CAA inclined to permit something which should not obviously be banned, or will they ban something because it would be bureaucratically difficult to implement?