FAA PPL/IR, G-reg, IFR privileges in Class G
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FAA PPL/IR, G-reg, IFR privileges in Class G
That an FAA PPL/IR holder (with no UK licenses) flying a G-reg has IFR privileges outside CAS appears widely believed but does anyone have a reference?
AIUI it is true abroad also, but isn't terribly useful because e.g. France has so much Class E which is CAS for IFR.
So, he can do an ILS (under real IFR conditions) into Biggin but not into Bournemouth.
Would the pilot need a CAA medical? I don't think so.
I am also aware that such a person could get himself a "piggyback" JAA PPL based on his FAA PPL (what is the process for doing that?) and then purchase the IMCR from the CAA with just a cheque. That would give IFR privileges in Class D also. Would such a pilot need the CAA medical?
AIUI it is true abroad also, but isn't terribly useful because e.g. France has so much Class E which is CAS for IFR.
So, he can do an ILS (under real IFR conditions) into Biggin but not into Bournemouth.
Would the pilot need a CAA medical? I don't think so.
I am also aware that such a person could get himself a "piggyback" JAA PPL based on his FAA PPL (what is the process for doing that?) and then purchase the IMCR from the CAA with just a cheque. That would give IFR privileges in Class D also. Would such a pilot need the CAA medical?
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I've never heard of an FAA I/R pilot having IMC privileges (assuming G reg a/c) without any other formalities.
To answer the second part of your question, in 2002 (the rules may have changed since), I decided to get a JAA PPL off the back of my FAA licenses. I had to do the following:
- Pass 2 writtens (I believe it was air law and human performance). If I had less than 100 hours, I would have been required to take all of the writtens.
- Pass a class 2 CAA medical.
- Pass a radio telephony test (practical and written tests).
- Pass a skills test with an examiner.
The most burdensome aspect of the above was the time it took and learning aspects of air law that bear no relation to one's day to day flying (the PPL confuser was very helpful in this regard). With fees, aircraft rental, medical, etc, there was not much change out of £1,000. With hindsight, having a JAA license has not really allowed me to do anything that I could not already do on my FAA license.
The CAA were very happy to give me an IMC rating valid for 25 months from the date of my last instrument proficiency check (or, if not applicable, from the date of your FAA IFR checkride). They would not, however, validate an IMC on the basis of simply completing 6 approaches.
Don't remember exact fees but they have no doubt increased by the government's usual 15x inflation annual increases.
To answer the second part of your question, in 2002 (the rules may have changed since), I decided to get a JAA PPL off the back of my FAA licenses. I had to do the following:
- Pass 2 writtens (I believe it was air law and human performance). If I had less than 100 hours, I would have been required to take all of the writtens.
- Pass a class 2 CAA medical.
- Pass a radio telephony test (practical and written tests).
- Pass a skills test with an examiner.
The most burdensome aspect of the above was the time it took and learning aspects of air law that bear no relation to one's day to day flying (the PPL confuser was very helpful in this regard). With fees, aircraft rental, medical, etc, there was not much change out of £1,000. With hindsight, having a JAA license has not really allowed me to do anything that I could not already do on my FAA license.
The CAA were very happy to give me an IMC rating valid for 25 months from the date of my last instrument proficiency check (or, if not applicable, from the date of your FAA IFR checkride). They would not, however, validate an IMC on the basis of simply completing 6 approaches.
Don't remember exact fees but they have no doubt increased by the government's usual 15x inflation annual increases.
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Thank you very much for the info, Heliplane. It is along the lines of what I thought. This isn't for me; it's for somebody else.
"I've never heard of an FAA I/R pilot having IMC privileges"
I said IFR privileges
I think you do get IFR privileges OCAS, but I am looking for a reference for this.
"I've never heard of an FAA I/R pilot having IMC privileges"
I said IFR privileges
I think you do get IFR privileges OCAS, but I am looking for a reference for this.
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I think that the reference you are looking for is article 26(4) of the Air Navigation Order 2005 which deals with the validation other Contracting State's licences. The article states that a pilot's licence issued by another Contracting State is deemed to be valid for flying aircraft registered in the UK but this does not (amongst other things) entitle the holder to fly in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules. There is no apparent restriction under IFR outside of controlled airspace.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm#26
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm#26
"So, he can do an ILS (under real IFR conditions) into Biggin but not into Bournemouth."
There is no such thing as "real IFR" Rules are Rules, Conditions refer to the weather, IMC or VMC!
If you enter an ATZ with ATC you are in controlled airspace, if the conditions are IMC you would have to fly IFR and Art 26 forbids that.
"I am also aware that such a person could get himself a "piggyback" JAA PPL based on his FAA PPL (what is the process for doing that?) and then purchase the IMCR from the CAA with just a cheque. That would give IFR privileges in Class D also. Would such a pilot need the CAA medical?
No such thing as a "piggyback" JAA PPL either you get a JAA PPL or you don't it has nothing to do with the FAA PPL, that merely gives you credits towards a JAA PPL! LASORS C1.2 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/SECTION%20C.pdf In order to exercise the privileges of a JAA licence you must have a valid JAA Medical Certificate ANO Art 32.
There is no such thing as "real IFR" Rules are Rules, Conditions refer to the weather, IMC or VMC!
If you enter an ATZ with ATC you are in controlled airspace, if the conditions are IMC you would have to fly IFR and Art 26 forbids that.
"I am also aware that such a person could get himself a "piggyback" JAA PPL based on his FAA PPL (what is the process for doing that?) and then purchase the IMCR from the CAA with just a cheque. That would give IFR privileges in Class D also. Would such a pilot need the CAA medical?
No such thing as a "piggyback" JAA PPL either you get a JAA PPL or you don't it has nothing to do with the FAA PPL, that merely gives you credits towards a JAA PPL! LASORS C1.2 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/SECTION%20C.pdf In order to exercise the privileges of a JAA licence you must have a valid JAA Medical Certificate ANO Art 32.
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Originally Posted by Whopity
"If you enter an ATZ with ATC you are in controlled airspace, if the conditions are IMC you would have to fly IFR and Art 26 forbids that.
An ATZ that is located in Class G airspace is itself Class G, regardless of whether it has ATC or not. And Article 155 of the ANO says that the term 'controlled airspace' within the Order shall be interpreted as 'airspace which has been notified as Class A, Class B, Class C, Class D or Class E'.
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Thank you all for the info.
"There is no such thing as "real IFR" Rules are Rules, Conditions ...."
Well, this is the UK where the rules get just slightly bent. Without wishing to reopen a subject done to death many times, if you turn up at Biggin and ask for an ILS, are you IFR or are you VFR?
Now (let's say you fall into the "obviously IFR" camp) let's transplant that situation to Bournemouth (Class D), imagine the average flying school spamcan, no ADF, no FM immune kit and doing an ILS. Ask no questions, tell no lies, and ATC is not in the business of asking those sorts of questions
Interesting re the diff between a piggyback FAA PPL (based on a UK/JAA PPL, and very common) and a piggyback JAA PPL (based on an FAA PPL). The former is allowed, the latter not. Is it because the Europeans don't consider the FAA good enough?
"There is no such thing as "real IFR" Rules are Rules, Conditions ...."
Well, this is the UK where the rules get just slightly bent. Without wishing to reopen a subject done to death many times, if you turn up at Biggin and ask for an ILS, are you IFR or are you VFR?
Now (let's say you fall into the "obviously IFR" camp) let's transplant that situation to Bournemouth (Class D), imagine the average flying school spamcan, no ADF, no FM immune kit and doing an ILS. Ask no questions, tell no lies, and ATC is not in the business of asking those sorts of questions
Interesting re the diff between a piggyback FAA PPL (based on a UK/JAA PPL, and very common) and a piggyback JAA PPL (based on an FAA PPL). The former is allowed, the latter not. Is it because the Europeans don't consider the FAA good enough?
