Flying in France:This is getting serious!
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FFF tell your german friend not to worry about using English when in Germany.
I have flown there and most pilots seem to want to prove that they can use english. The NATO forces flying around there mean that all controllers are very good at english and I had one who got quite stroppy if everyone in the circuit didn't revert to english as soon as I was airborne. I did say i didn't mind but his reply was "they need the practise".
And to be honest a fishhead can't understand a south german if they arnt' high german speakers. It wasn't uncommon at work for Germans to use english as a common language when both parties had strong regional differences.
I have flown there and most pilots seem to want to prove that they can use english. The NATO forces flying around there mean that all controllers are very good at english and I had one who got quite stroppy if everyone in the circuit didn't revert to english as soon as I was airborne. I did say i didn't mind but his reply was "they need the practise".
And to be honest a fishhead can't understand a south german if they arnt' high german speakers. It wasn't uncommon at work for Germans to use english as a common language when both parties had strong regional differences.
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Several times when arriving at "French-only" airfields I've called up with "XXX bonjour" and my callsign in standard phonetics (with a French bias - "Yonkee" rather than "Yankee" etc).
As often as not, they reply in English. Usually there's no other traffic about anyway.
The only really scary moment was going into Toussus, speaking English to the Tower: I was on final to 07 right and an aircraft shot across in front of me a couple of hundred yards ahead and a few feet lower, and turned final for 07 left. That really shook me; when I told the controller about it, he explained that English-speakers were being given 07 right, and French speakers 07 left. Scary!
As often as not, they reply in English. Usually there's no other traffic about anyway.
The only really scary moment was going into Toussus, speaking English to the Tower: I was on final to 07 right and an aircraft shot across in front of me a couple of hundred yards ahead and a few feet lower, and turned final for 07 left. That really shook me; when I told the controller about it, he explained that English-speakers were being given 07 right, and French speakers 07 left. Scary!
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The old 45 degree approach
Originally Posted by MikeGodsell
Similarly there are some peculiar French circuit joining methods involving 45-degree approaches to the middle of the downwind leg from the outside....MG
- Tim
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Tim-CPL
If I remember right, the reason for the DGAC action was accident statistics by the BEA (French accident investigation agency) which showed the most likely place for a midair was overhead an uncontrolled airfield.
They tried to standardise and simplify circuit joining, by making the start of the downwind leg the only integration point. They also banned the 45 degree join ("chaussette" or "sock") because it involved too many sharp turns at low level.
What they wanted was to encourage use of the "auto-information" 123.5 frequency, so that pilots could get runway info from each other, thus avoiding the need to do an overhead join.
As another poster put it.."trying to tell French pilots not to do something guarantees they will do it!" However 123.5 is used very much now, and is probably the main reason the French don't bump into each other; but also why they are so concerned about non-french speakers flying into their uncontrolled airfields.
MG
If I remember right, the reason for the DGAC action was accident statistics by the BEA (French accident investigation agency) which showed the most likely place for a midair was overhead an uncontrolled airfield.
They tried to standardise and simplify circuit joining, by making the start of the downwind leg the only integration point. They also banned the 45 degree join ("chaussette" or "sock") because it involved too many sharp turns at low level.
What they wanted was to encourage use of the "auto-information" 123.5 frequency, so that pilots could get runway info from each other, thus avoiding the need to do an overhead join.
As another poster put it.."trying to tell French pilots not to do something guarantees they will do it!" However 123.5 is used very much now, and is probably the main reason the French don't bump into each other; but also why they are so concerned about non-french speakers flying into their uncontrolled airfields.
MG
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"the most likely place for a midair was overhead an uncontrolled airfield."
They should have told the CAA.
I agree totally; the OHJ is a stupid idea, dating as it does from pre-radio WW1 signals square days.
What we need is WW3; then the CAA could update the syllabus to WW2 and they had radios in WW2
Sadly, with the nuclear deterrent in place, we aren't likely to get that option (despite some peoples' best efforts) so aviation will just have to make do....
They should have told the CAA.
I agree totally; the OHJ is a stupid idea, dating as it does from pre-radio WW1 signals square days.
What we need is WW3; then the CAA could update the syllabus to WW2 and they had radios in WW2
Sadly, with the nuclear deterrent in place, we aren't likely to get that option (despite some peoples' best efforts) so aviation will just have to make do....
I do speak fluent French, but as someone else said, you still have to learn the proper vocabulary for things like "upwind" and "base". I learned to ski in French, and I'm still not sure of the English for some things.
I flew at Mandelieu (near Cannes), with an instructor, mainly to get the hang of doing the radio in French and other quirks of flying in France. But it wasn't a huge success because Mandelieu (which is towered) is largely used by French pilots as a place to improve their English!
John
I flew at Mandelieu (near Cannes), with an instructor, mainly to get the hang of doing the radio in French and other quirks of flying in France. But it wasn't a huge success because Mandelieu (which is towered) is largely used by French pilots as a place to improve their English!
John
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I have not yet got my ppl, but do intend to fly accross to France. That is once I got a few hours and confidence behind me. Now my French is non existant, however my partner is a native French speaker. Can I get her to do the radio calls. ie. I instruct her what to say. Is this legal?
Sorry if this is a stupid question, sure it is answered in the training manuals somewhere, but not got to that yet
Thanking you all in advance
Sorry if this is a stupid question, sure it is answered in the training manuals somewhere, but not got to that yet
Thanking you all in advance
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Originally Posted by MikeGodsell
They also banned the 45 degree join ("chaussette" or "sock") because it involved too many sharp turns at low level.MG
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172 driver
I am not familiar with the US 45' join, but suspect it is different to the French version. Have a look in Delage or Pooleys and you will see that the "Sock" involves three 45' legs and three tight descending turns.
coodem
Your partner could be very helpful if you venture into rural France.
But she would need to learn the language of aviation. Even a native French speaker would be flummoxed by aviation french. Perhaps she should join you on the PPL course!?
MG
I am not familiar with the US 45' join, but suspect it is different to the French version. Have a look in Delage or Pooleys and you will see that the "Sock" involves three 45' legs and three tight descending turns.
coodem
Your partner could be very helpful if you venture into rural France.
But she would need to learn the language of aviation. Even a native French speaker would be flummoxed by aviation french. Perhaps she should join you on the PPL course!?
MG
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Even a native French speaker would be flummoxed by aviation french.
dp
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Call me an ignorant pig who doesn't take sufficient interest in other cultures 
but that is the 2nd reason why I stick to international airports when going abroad (the 1st one is to avoid arrest).
Radio talk is a whole language, which like any other is highly context specific. You have to know more or less what is being said in order to understand it. This is why most PPL students go into instant brain overload when they are asked to fly the plane as well as do the radio.
Note also that non-international (i.e. domestic) French airfield data is deliberately excluded from the notam data made available to ais.org.uk, so if you fly to one of those (obviously legal only on an internal flight) then you have to get notams from France (or perhaps more accurately from any notam source within Schengen). Whereas if you stick to international airports, ais.org.uk will do just fine.
but that is the 2nd reason why I stick to international airports when going abroad (the 1st one is to avoid arrest).Radio talk is a whole language, which like any other is highly context specific. You have to know more or less what is being said in order to understand it. This is why most PPL students go into instant brain overload when they are asked to fly the plane as well as do the radio.
Note also that non-international (i.e. domestic) French airfield data is deliberately excluded from the notam data made available to ais.org.uk, so if you fly to one of those (obviously legal only on an internal flight) then you have to get notams from France (or perhaps more accurately from any notam source within Schengen). Whereas if you stick to international airports, ais.org.uk will do just fine.
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Originally Posted by MikeGodsell
172 driver
I am not familiar with the US 45' join, but suspect it is different to the French version. Have a look in Delage or Pooleys and you will see that the "Sock" involves three 45' legs and three tight descending turns.
MG
I am not familiar with the US 45' join, but suspect it is different to the French version. Have a look in Delage or Pooleys and you will see that the "Sock" involves three 45' legs and three tight descending turns.
MG
Don't have the Delage and my (UK) Pooley doesn't contain this info. Any website where I could educate myself?
On a different note, I would concur with IO540 here - radiospeak IS a different language. I speak fluent French (having lived there for years) but would most probably struggle to do the radio there!
