Electronic artificial horizons
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Electronic artificial horizons
Does anyone have any experience of electronic artificial horizons?
I have seen both specific units and also ones that work with PDAs.
I am interested in how well they work and how reliable they are for use in a permit aircraft.
Many thanks
I have seen both specific units and also ones that work with PDAs.
I am interested in how well they work and how reliable they are for use in a permit aircraft.
Many thanks
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: S Warwickshire
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
I presume you really mean electronic and not electric horizons (the difference is lost on a lot of people).
I have come across the Dynon D-10 unit which uses solid-state gyros (RLGs) to provide the attitude and heading reference system in conjunction with a flux-gate compass to update the heading.
There has recently come onto the market a "pseudo-horizon" which seems to use turn-rate for bank and vertical speed for pitch. I see this as having potential dangers for mis-interpretation.
The Dynon unit has had lots of good reports and looks like a good option, especially for a small panel.
I believe the electronic gyros are essentially rate-gyros, but use electronic integrators and long interval averaging to correct for drift.
I have come across the Dynon D-10 unit which uses solid-state gyros (RLGs) to provide the attitude and heading reference system in conjunction with a flux-gate compass to update the heading.
There has recently come onto the market a "pseudo-horizon" which seems to use turn-rate for bank and vertical speed for pitch. I see this as having potential dangers for mis-interpretation.
The Dynon unit has had lots of good reports and looks like a good option, especially for a small panel.
I believe the electronic gyros are essentially rate-gyros, but use electronic integrators and long interval averaging to correct for drift.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Yes, I do mean the electronic solid state ones. The PDA ones look cheaper, easily installed and movable but I'm not sure how well they work.
I have had several PDAs and some worked well and some locked up and I wondered whether anyone had experience of them as a horizon.
I have had several PDAs and some worked well and some locked up and I wondered whether anyone had experience of them as a horizon.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
I have the PDA version of the PC Flight Systems e-gyro installed in my as yet unfinished MRC-01. Hope to have it in the air in the next 4 – 8 weeks. Have flown with an E-Gyro in a CT and was very impressed, but do not try to run the map s/w as well as it will make the system unstable.
PC flight systems have sold a lot of units and have a complete range of options from “specialist” all in one to PDA systems.
If you put WWW the full name with no spaces then the .com you will find full details! (I understand we cannot post direct links anymore).
Rod1
PC flight systems have sold a lot of units and have a complete range of options from “specialist” all in one to PDA systems.
If you put WWW the full name with no spaces then the .com you will find full details! (I understand we cannot post direct links anymore).
Rod1
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Wales / Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
I have a Dynon D10 installed with about 5 hours experience in use. A brilliant piece of kit, not just an artificial horizon, but also HI,ASI,Alt,Rate of climb,Angle of attack,OAT,battery state and the ability to hold 5 check lists. Internal battery provides 2 hrs backup and now available with a 7 inch screen.
With the Dynon the only other requirements are Backup Magnetic compass, Altimeter and ASI.
Time to spare, go by air
Hen Ddraig
With the Dynon the only other requirements are Backup Magnetic compass, Altimeter and ASI.
Time to spare, go by air
Hen Ddraig
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Age: 44
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
I take it that for angle of attack and oat you need to install electronic sensors? 'Twould be great to have alpha info - could save lives too
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Oh no ZA, this is not a ploy to allow you to use your IMC rating and get above the clouds to practice for Indeterminate later this year, is it?
Stik
Stik
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
What a great idea!!
Actually its to help me get to competitions.
Not sure about indeterminate as I've been grounded since 20 Nov as prop is away for overhaul at Skycraft and there is no ETA yet.
See you at Sywell Sat?
Actually its to help me get to competitions.
Not sure about indeterminate as I've been grounded since 20 Nov as prop is away for overhaul at Skycraft and there is no ETA yet.
See you at Sywell Sat?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Wales / Ontario
Age: 84
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Dynon supply OAT probe and two port pitot for AoA, also available is a remote compass module which can be mounted well away from the large lumps of metal found behind the prop.
Time to spare, go by air.
Hen Ddraig
Time to spare, go by air.
Hen Ddraig
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
I'm very interested in these for an entirely different reason.
Just how accurate are they? I ask, because a solid-state rate gyro that I was looking at for another application had quoted short-term accuracy of one degree per second, which wouldn't be much help in an AI. It also had "output noise" equivalent to +/- 3 degrees or so.
Some of that could be taken of by using integrators and averaging, but I'm still apprehensive.
To get the sort of accuracy needed for IFR flight, the inference was that you need either electric (mechanical) gyros, or ring laser ones. The latter are excellent, but scarily expensive.
So how do these devices do it, or are they also scarily expensive?
Just how accurate are they? I ask, because a solid-state rate gyro that I was looking at for another application had quoted short-term accuracy of one degree per second, which wouldn't be much help in an AI. It also had "output noise" equivalent to +/- 3 degrees or so.
Some of that could be taken of by using integrators and averaging, but I'm still apprehensive.
To get the sort of accuracy needed for IFR flight, the inference was that you need either electric (mechanical) gyros, or ring laser ones. The latter are excellent, but scarily expensive.
So how do these devices do it, or are they also scarily expensive?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Keef,
The D10A artificial horizon from Dynon which goes in your panel is around $2200 see http://www.dynonavionics.com
Their website implies better accuracy than you quote for the sensors. Not sure how they do this but they mention three angular rate (gyro) sensors; three accelerometers and three magnetic field strength sensors. Maybe there is some clever software trickery to keep it all from drifting.
I have also seen some artificial horizons that use a PDA with a cable to the sensor box. These can then be used in the Aircraft with a piece of velcro. I am interested in how good these really are. I have met one person who had one in his Extra and he said it was very good. I was hoping to get some pruners who could provide additional user feedback
The D10A artificial horizon from Dynon which goes in your panel is around $2200 see http://www.dynonavionics.com
Their website implies better accuracy than you quote for the sensors. Not sure how they do this but they mention three angular rate (gyro) sensors; three accelerometers and three magnetic field strength sensors. Maybe there is some clever software trickery to keep it all from drifting.
I have also seen some artificial horizons that use a PDA with a cable to the sensor box. These can then be used in the Aircraft with a piece of velcro. I am interested in how good these really are. I have met one person who had one in his Extra and he said it was very good. I was hoping to get some pruners who could provide additional user feedback
Last edited by Zulu Alpha; 15th Jan 2006 at 22:13.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
keef, I think there are a few solid state devices out there which have met FAA TSOs. Never used one but they look really neat.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: S Warwickshire
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
The main enabler for these devices is that the same sensors are being used in cars for stability control. This has allowed volume production of sensors to bring the costs down.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Keef, I didn't know you were interested - if you want to borrow my PDA-linked PCEFIS you are welcome to try it. System originally cost about £1300 for the EFIS box and leads, say £300 for PDA if one didn't already have one, and £2-300 for a Garmin 89 or 90 for the GPS driver (it might work with others too, else could need a different lead for the GPS bit if you want to display that at the same time as attitude data).
Regards - Chris.
Regards - Chris.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Electronic artificial horizons
Thanks Chris - I'm working on a project to develop non-visual attitude, heading, etc information. I started by looking at piezo gyros, but the cheapo ones weren't up the job. I'm about to get stuck in with an (old) electric turn and slip with autopilot outputs. I may take you up on your offer later if that doesn't do the job.