Risky business . . .
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Risky business . . .
I've recently started my PPL at Coventry, love it to bits, but the inherent risk in flying has really been brought home to me by the tragic accidents (unconnected) that occured not too far from here recently over Northants and Gloucs.
As someone with a wife and two young kids back home, I appreciated the risk element when I started out, but thought it unlikely that anything serious would happen, so I went for it. Now I'm wondering whether this really is such a good idea, particularly at this stage of my life. Yes I love flying and yes, I know that there's statistically more likelihood of getting seriously injured (or worse still) driving down the A45 on the way to the airfield. But flying IS (or at least is perceived to be) a hazardous activity, viz:
mortgage protection policies generally don't cover flying, neither will accidental life polices (confirmed to me this week). If anything was to happen to the insured (and main breadwinner), the consequences for the family are dire.
I got some career advice recently which included omitting 'Flying' and 'skiing' from my CV (under personal/interests) as they could send out the wrong signals to any prospective employer.
I have friends who say they simply wouldn't allow their partners fly '"cos it's too bl00dy dangerous".
What I'd like to know is how much consideration folks give to this - do we really give much thought to 'what might/could happen'? What do we do to 'insure' and/or to minimise the risks? Is it a case of "well if we really thought about it, we'd never get out of bed in the morning"? Are there insurance policies out there which cover recreational flying? Or is it best not to think too much and just get on and enjoy the experience?
Cheers,
HW
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As someone with a wife and two young kids back home, I appreciated the risk element when I started out, but thought it unlikely that anything serious would happen, so I went for it. Now I'm wondering whether this really is such a good idea, particularly at this stage of my life. Yes I love flying and yes, I know that there's statistically more likelihood of getting seriously injured (or worse still) driving down the A45 on the way to the airfield. But flying IS (or at least is perceived to be) a hazardous activity, viz:
mortgage protection policies generally don't cover flying, neither will accidental life polices (confirmed to me this week). If anything was to happen to the insured (and main breadwinner), the consequences for the family are dire.
I got some career advice recently which included omitting 'Flying' and 'skiing' from my CV (under personal/interests) as they could send out the wrong signals to any prospective employer.
I have friends who say they simply wouldn't allow their partners fly '"cos it's too bl00dy dangerous".
What I'd like to know is how much consideration folks give to this - do we really give much thought to 'what might/could happen'? What do we do to 'insure' and/or to minimise the risks? Is it a case of "well if we really thought about it, we'd never get out of bed in the morning"? Are there insurance policies out there which cover recreational flying? Or is it best not to think too much and just get on and enjoy the experience?
Cheers,
HW
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Flying like many recreational sports
Scuba Diving
Climbing
Skiing
Motor racing
etc
is not without its risks. However it is possible to get the necessary life cover to protect your dependents in case the worst should happen, you just need to go to a specialist broker see the flying mags.
Scuba Diving
Climbing
Skiing
Motor racing
etc
is not without its risks. However it is possible to get the necessary life cover to protect your dependents in case the worst should happen, you just need to go to a specialist broker see the flying mags.
Spicy Meatball
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HW I totally understand where you are coming from - I too have had these thoughts, however this is my point of view on it.......
I do feel that because flying is such a passion for me, that I will not let thoughts like this get in the way of fulfilling my dreams. When I see my close family (the older generation) becoming ill and passing away, it makes me quickly realise that life is very, very short.
It is dangerous (no matter how good/safe you are), but then are so many other things in life. Do what you are good at and enjoy every minute of it. When my girlfriend drives to work (she's a nurse) on a cold winter night, I worry about her on the roads and hope that she gets to work safely - as there are so many idiots on the road these days. I am sure she worries about me when I fly (well, who knows
) but if we thought like this too often, then we would never leave the house (saying that, in your house you can be drowned, burned, poisoned, gassed, and just about anything!!)
Safe flying,
Maz
PS. I am interested to know what the advice given to you was, regarding the CV? I do include a PPL on my CV at the bottom in the interests section - what were the reasons for taking it out?
I do feel that because flying is such a passion for me, that I will not let thoughts like this get in the way of fulfilling my dreams. When I see my close family (the older generation) becoming ill and passing away, it makes me quickly realise that life is very, very short.
It is dangerous (no matter how good/safe you are), but then are so many other things in life. Do what you are good at and enjoy every minute of it. When my girlfriend drives to work (she's a nurse) on a cold winter night, I worry about her on the roads and hope that she gets to work safely - as there are so many idiots on the road these days. I am sure she worries about me when I fly (well, who knows
) but if we thought like this too often, then we would never leave the house (saying that, in your house you can be drowned, burned, poisoned, gassed, and just about anything!!)Safe flying,
Maz
PS. I am interested to know what the advice given to you was, regarding the CV? I do include a PPL on my CV at the bottom in the interests section - what were the reasons for taking it out?
Interesting one this. I had occasion to check the real statistics for various leisure activities a year or two ago, only to find that horse riding was one of the most dangerous.............
The bizarre thing is that insurance companies often simply don't bother to correctly calculate true risk for minority activities, so one ends up paying large premiums by default.
If you hunt around you will get cover though. I managed to persuade two companies to provide full mortgage life cover, with only a modest premium increase, when flying in bits of the Queens military hardware.
VP
The bizarre thing is that insurance companies often simply don't bother to correctly calculate true risk for minority activities, so one ends up paying large premiums by default.
If you hunt around you will get cover though. I managed to persuade two companies to provide full mortgage life cover, with only a modest premium increase, when flying in bits of the Queens military hardware.
VP
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It is extremley healthy to be aware of the risks associated with flying, and I commend you on your approach. But if you think about it too much you could expose yourself to becoming fixated upon the dangers, which could lead to problems with anxiety and fear whilst flying. If every time you fly you allow statistics to haunt you, your enjoyment will be ruined.
You seem like quite an analytical sort of person, so maybe the best thing for you is to establish the accident stastistics for GA flying, and understand the contributing factors. This will give you a balanced view on the risk distribution. Based upon this info, you can then configure your flying approach.
Most GA accidents happen as a result of pilot error, a lot of these are either caused by very low currency an/or over confidence.
Low currency in terms of instrument flying is deadly, over confidence encourages drift from reccomended procedures, such as not checking the fuel levels, weight & balance, poor planning etc etc.
Your risk assumption may find that flying microlights is the prefered option over spamcams, as this approach would reduce your chances of being tempted to fly in poor weather. Or you may find that training for an instrument qualification will increase your overall pilot skills.
One over-riding fact is true, if you choose a good flying school, and maintain regular training post PPL, you will find yourself in a much lower risk bracket.
Accidents caused by mid air collision, or mechanical/structural failure are very rare (although recent accidents are exceptions). These risks can also be reduced by the choice airfield, aircraft and maintenance setup.
I suspect that as you progress with your flying training, you will establish a much clearer view and will start to experience your flying boundaries. Just take it easy, relax with it, and soon the family will be desperate to go up with you.
Good airmanship is the main risk reducer.
You seem like quite an analytical sort of person, so maybe the best thing for you is to establish the accident stastistics for GA flying, and understand the contributing factors. This will give you a balanced view on the risk distribution. Based upon this info, you can then configure your flying approach.
Most GA accidents happen as a result of pilot error, a lot of these are either caused by very low currency an/or over confidence.
Low currency in terms of instrument flying is deadly, over confidence encourages drift from reccomended procedures, such as not checking the fuel levels, weight & balance, poor planning etc etc.
Your risk assumption may find that flying microlights is the prefered option over spamcams, as this approach would reduce your chances of being tempted to fly in poor weather. Or you may find that training for an instrument qualification will increase your overall pilot skills.
One over-riding fact is true, if you choose a good flying school, and maintain regular training post PPL, you will find yourself in a much lower risk bracket.
Accidents caused by mid air collision, or mechanical/structural failure are very rare (although recent accidents are exceptions). These risks can also be reduced by the choice airfield, aircraft and maintenance setup.
I suspect that as you progress with your flying training, you will establish a much clearer view and will start to experience your flying boundaries. Just take it easy, relax with it, and soon the family will be desperate to go up with you.
Good airmanship is the main risk reducer.
I agree with yawning dog - a good summary.
My take is that most accidents are pilot error and by being a careful pilot I can avoid that. Accidents from mechanical failure or other circumstances beyond the pilot's control are rare. Even then with careful attention to the weather forecasts and with the route when flight planning, a careful pilot can minimise the risk of injury. I feel more at risk driving the car or crossing the road.
Someone mentioned microlights as an alternative. I gain comfort from the high maintenance standards that are mandated in GA - it gives me greater confidence with the aircraft than what I would have in a microlight.
As far as the financial risk goes, if you cannot carry it personally, talk to an insurance broker. But dont get paranoic about the risk. It is not high if you are careful. Flying is NOT inherently dangerous. It can be unforgiving to the careless.
Bentleg
My take is that most accidents are pilot error and by being a careful pilot I can avoid that. Accidents from mechanical failure or other circumstances beyond the pilot's control are rare. Even then with careful attention to the weather forecasts and with the route when flight planning, a careful pilot can minimise the risk of injury. I feel more at risk driving the car or crossing the road.
Someone mentioned microlights as an alternative. I gain comfort from the high maintenance standards that are mandated in GA - it gives me greater confidence with the aircraft than what I would have in a microlight.
As far as the financial risk goes, if you cannot carry it personally, talk to an insurance broker. But dont get paranoic about the risk. It is not high if you are careful. Flying is NOT inherently dangerous. It can be unforgiving to the careless.
Bentleg
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mortgage protection policies generally don't cover flying, neither will accidental life polices
I am in the process of moving and have told my mortgage protection insurer that I fly. They have sent me a form to fill in asking what types / how often / in what capacity, etc, as did my previous insurer.
RC
Learning to fly is one of the safest activities in personal aviation.
Once you get your license the trick is to conduct your flying as you have been trained.
Oh yes, the weekend trip to an interesting destination -- a good weather forecast for the time of the return trip is perhaps more important than the the forecast for the departure
Once you get your license the trick is to conduct your flying as you have been trained.
- Remain within weight and balance limits
- Use the checklist
- Use adequate runways -- botched takeoffs on short runways are deadly
- Have adequate fuel and oil
- Stay out of weather your instructor would not let you fly in
- Ensure the a/c has been properly maintained
Oh yes, the weekend trip to an interesting destination -- a good weather forecast for the time of the return trip is perhaps more important than the the forecast for the departure
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Agree with most of the sentiments stated here. Just to add to RBF's line about schedule, I was also told by my instructors "there's no Monday morning job in the world worth dying for" ie, don't push on in marginal conditions, even if you do "have to get back" as it's a hired plane or work tomorrow.
Also, when we took our mortgage out with the Virgin One account I made a big point about my flying, and they included it at no extra charge - I believe most policies will cover you, but may charge a bit more.
Life's not a rehearsal, enjoy it - and to me there's nothing more enjoyable than flying.... oh alright, maybe one other thing!
DW
Also, when we took our mortgage out with the Virgin One account I made a big point about my flying, and they included it at no extra charge - I believe most policies will cover you, but may charge a bit more.
Life's not a rehearsal, enjoy it - and to me there's nothing more enjoyable than flying.... oh alright, maybe one other thing!
DW
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Happy wanderer,
Many , if not all pilots have had the kind of doubts you are having, I certainly did.
My advice is to read "The killing zone"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...361619-2717226
This book is invaluable in helping to understand the causes of many GA accidents and in understanding we can improve our airmanship and have a better chance of avoiding the same mistakes.
Many , if not all pilots have had the kind of doubts you are having, I certainly did.
My advice is to read "The killing zone"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...361619-2717226
This book is invaluable in helping to understand the causes of many GA accidents and in understanding we can improve our airmanship and have a better chance of avoiding the same mistakes.
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Agree with Yorks - I read this a month or so after getting my PPL earlier this year - gives some great insights and advice. it's also stunning to see how some people approach flying!
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Thing is, we all read these books and accident reports and so on, and think to ourselves, where appropriate, "well, I wouldn't be that stupid, would I, so I'm not going to get killed that way".
What we don't know is whether the accident victims thought the same.
Oh, and there are positive steps you can take. After reading about an accident in which a failed ASI may have been a contributory factor I realised that I had never flown a circuit and landing with no ASI, so next time I was up with an instructor I got him to cover the ASI to see how I would cope. With that experience I would not now expect a real ASI failure to throw me into such a panic that I crashed the aircraft.
What we don't know is whether the accident victims thought the same.
Oh, and there are positive steps you can take. After reading about an accident in which a failed ASI may have been a contributory factor I realised that I had never flown a circuit and landing with no ASI, so next time I was up with an instructor I got him to cover the ASI to see how I would cope. With that experience I would not now expect a real ASI failure to throw me into such a panic that I crashed the aircraft.
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Happy Wanderer,
Good advice above, basically if you kill yourself when flying a small airplane it's very very likely going to be your fault. So you are in control, but you should never get complacent. Everybody says they will never run out of fuel but then quite a lot do, it could happen to any of us if we get lazy.
What I tell people is that it's a lot safer than riding a motorcycle and a bit more dangerous than driving a car. Do I have statistics to prove that? Not really, but it feels about right, and statistics on this subject are not clear anyway.
Insurance companies can be frustrating as they will happily insure you to ride a motorcycle with no loading, but not a light aircraft. There are solutions to this as outlined above.
Good advice above, basically if you kill yourself when flying a small airplane it's very very likely going to be your fault. So you are in control, but you should never get complacent. Everybody says they will never run out of fuel but then quite a lot do, it could happen to any of us if we get lazy.
What I tell people is that it's a lot safer than riding a motorcycle and a bit more dangerous than driving a car. Do I have statistics to prove that? Not really, but it feels about right, and statistics on this subject are not clear anyway.
Insurance companies can be frustrating as they will happily insure you to ride a motorcycle with no loading, but not a light aircraft. There are solutions to this as outlined above.
In my experience there was no problem with Life Assurance for a PPL holder. I made a declaration when applying, was asked to fill out an "Aviation Questionnaire" (just bog standard questions about experience, types of aircraft flown, details of any accidents/incidents etc). Sent it off, they acknowledged receipt and that was the last I heard (no significant additional charges that I'm aware of).
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Fate is the hunter....when your numbers come up, they come up. The best thing to do is try and minimise this by being as well trained as possible and not take silly risks.....Anyway had you NOT gone flying, you might have been killed by a runaway lorry or fallen off your roof adjusting the TV aerial.
My view (after reading loads of books on quantum physics) is that Space Time exists, and therefor we exist elsewhere in space time and therefor our future already co-exists elsewhere in space time with the past.....so there is not a damn thing you can do about it anyway
My view (after reading loads of books on quantum physics) is that Space Time exists, and therefor we exist elsewhere in space time and therefor our future already co-exists elsewhere in space time with the past.....so there is not a damn thing you can do about it anyway
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I seem to remember someone on here did the numbers about a year ago and concluded that it was about the same risk as riding a motorcyle - which might be seen as a bit 'mid-life crisis' at your age, but not as suicidal risk-taking.
Agree insurance can be iffy: but my extra premium for life assurance with Scottish Provident was 12p/month, so they get the thumbs up, as do Traffords for travel insurance which allows me to fly e.g. in the US when on holiday.
Tim
Agree insurance can be iffy: but my extra premium for life assurance with Scottish Provident was 12p/month, so they get the thumbs up, as do Traffords for travel insurance which allows me to fly e.g. in the US when on holiday.
Tim
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My view (after reading loads of books on quantum physics) is that Space Time exists, and therefor we exist elsewhere in space time and therefor our future already co-exists elsewhere in space time with the past.....so there is not a damn thing you can do about it anyway
Eh?
As a newly-wed, I sometimes get a sinking, guilty feeling on my way to the airfield when it occurs to me that I might be shirking my responsibility to my loved ones to look after myself. It was the thought of what would go through my parents' heads if I died needlessly that started me wearing cycle helmets and defying peer pressure; this is a similar kind of thought process.
I know my husband worries about whether there's a chance he may not see me again when I go off to fly without him but it is a measure of his trust in me that he doesn't try to stop me - and a sign of his love that he would rather I was doing what makes me me and happy.
After witnessing the horrific accident at Kemble earlier this year, this all became much more immediate. I don't think I really understood about the shocking, raw violence of death before that.
After that, probabilities and logical reasoning as a means of justification became a bit meaningless. My way of dealing with the risk psychologically is more to accept it, try and minimise it and decide for myself ultimately whether or not I think it worthwhile. I'm with Mazzy so far, though I reserve the right to change my mind one day if I decide to!
NB - My recent careers advisor (outplacement support...
) drooled all over my CV complete with flying achievements and looked at me as if I was loony when I asked if i should get rid of that bit! Guess it's a matter of taste.