Risky business . . .
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DFC
"Microlights in the UK are required to meet a minimum design flight envelope of +6 and -3 G. In the flight manual this is limited to a operatin limit of +4 and -2G."
You didn't read I wrote "within the operating envelope".
Next time, compare the build quality of the structures and the control linkages between say a £30k (new) aircraft and a £300k (new) aircraft. There is no comparison.
One could build a £80k carbon fibre homebuilt which is far stronger in every way than a £300k certified metal plane, but commercially it would be a dead end.
"Microlights in the UK are required to meet a minimum design flight envelope of +6 and -3 G. In the flight manual this is limited to a operatin limit of +4 and -2G."
You didn't read I wrote "within the operating envelope".
Next time, compare the build quality of the structures and the control linkages between say a £30k (new) aircraft and a £300k (new) aircraft. There is no comparison.
One could build a £80k carbon fibre homebuilt which is far stronger in every way than a £300k certified metal plane, but commercially it would be a dead end.
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Re: Risky business . . .
The reson why one aircraft produced by as a good example a CAA A1 approved factory costs 30K and one produced by a CAA A1 approved factory costs 300K is the certification process. Same aircraft, same factory, same quality but different certification requirements different price.
Regards,
DFC
Regards,
DFC
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Re: Risky business . . .
I'm yet another one right up there with you on the 'nervous' stakes. I fly rotary, about 100 hours, & I would say at least 50% of the similar hours rotary pilots I know are the same (but then who wouldn't be in an R22! 
). We all talk about it!
My approach to reducing risk at present is:
- I don't fly local if there is sub 1000ft cloud base, few, scattered or otherwise: it's just not worth it. For long flights I like 2000ft base.
- I don't fly anywhere near dusk or in any rain
- I don't take passengers unless they are pilots - this will change when I've got more hrs
- I try to read every accident report and as much background as I can
- I try to get an instructed training flight in once a month.
These can all be relaxed as I get more hours, but wtf, I'm not a CPL & it's only for fun so why take any risks at all when this inexperienced?
But you can worry yourself to death. I would bet you're a lot happier once you're in the air than in the 2 hours before a flight.
Use the situation to your advantage by becoming as good as you can be and I am sure we will both come out great private pilots.
BW
). We all talk about it!My approach to reducing risk at present is:
- I don't fly local if there is sub 1000ft cloud base, few, scattered or otherwise: it's just not worth it. For long flights I like 2000ft base.
- I don't fly anywhere near dusk or in any rain
- I don't take passengers unless they are pilots - this will change when I've got more hrs
- I try to read every accident report and as much background as I can
- I try to get an instructed training flight in once a month.
These can all be relaxed as I get more hours, but wtf, I'm not a CPL & it's only for fun so why take any risks at all when this inexperienced?
But you can worry yourself to death. I would bet you're a lot happier once you're in the air than in the 2 hours before a flight.
Use the situation to your advantage by becoming as good as you can be and I am sure we will both come out great private pilots.
BW
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Re: Risky business . . .
There are very different levels of risk in flying; if you are not the first person testflying a new high-performance fighter or night decklanding on a pitching deck then the adrenaline levels should remain within safe limits! Regarding the latter - the three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and, a good bowel movement. The night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities in life where you get to experience all three at the same time!!!:
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Re: Risky business . . .
Intresting Thread.
I starting my PPL training in April 2005 and have completed 34 hours (incl 4 solo). Of late, I have become completely spooked with solo flying.
The onset of this phobia can be tracked to when my wife first asked if I needed additional Life Assurance coverage for flying. She later insisted that I have it in place before I next set out to fly. I did check this with my current assurers and it came back in writing that I am indeed covered and there is no requirement for additional premiums.
While away from the air field I remain hyper sensitive to solo flying but find that when I sit in the cockpit and start the pre flights I become focused and less obsessed with impending fate.
I starting my PPL training in April 2005 and have completed 34 hours (incl 4 solo). Of late, I have become completely spooked with solo flying.
The onset of this phobia can be tracked to when my wife first asked if I needed additional Life Assurance coverage for flying. She later insisted that I have it in place before I next set out to fly. I did check this with my current assurers and it came back in writing that I am indeed covered and there is no requirement for additional premiums.
While away from the air field I remain hyper sensitive to solo flying but find that when I sit in the cockpit and start the pre flights I become focused and less obsessed with impending fate.
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Re: Risky business . . .
Ah risk - the essential frisson of life itself.
Life is not about the minimising of all risks, but the minimisation of risk within certain parameters. Does flying contain a risk element? Of course. Is it worth that risk element? Absolutely. Will being the best prepared pilot you possibly can be, affect the enjoyment of your flying? No.
I understand the concerns of some. I have a young son, but when's he's older I will introduce him to flying and hope that he gets the same buzz from it that I do. Although this will add a microscopic risk factor to him dying early, it will also hopefully be part of teaching him that life is there for the taking and to be enjoyed.
Now base jumping - that's just for loonies.
Edited to say that there may be some risk in DFC and I0540 having a real life scrap, but I think they should get it on!
Life is not about the minimising of all risks, but the minimisation of risk within certain parameters. Does flying contain a risk element? Of course. Is it worth that risk element? Absolutely. Will being the best prepared pilot you possibly can be, affect the enjoyment of your flying? No.
I understand the concerns of some. I have a young son, but when's he's older I will introduce him to flying and hope that he gets the same buzz from it that I do. Although this will add a microscopic risk factor to him dying early, it will also hopefully be part of teaching him that life is there for the taking and to be enjoyed.
Now base jumping - that's just for loonies.
Edited to say that there may be some risk in DFC and I0540 having a real life scrap, but I think they should get it on!
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Re: Risky business . . .
As one of the most cautious, careful, but regrettably also incompetent pilots, I too have wondered about all this. Just occasionally, I look out at the wings at 5000' (as if the excess over 200' makes much difference) and realize how small I am, and that it's up to me to get the thing back on the ground.
In over 20 years of gliding (and one of power flying, together with a number of trips in balloons and the odd skirmish in a microlight), I have known one acquaintance who was killed in a gliding accident: a very experienced, very steady pilot, so particularly sobering. However, in that time, three pilots I knew have died through heart attacks and brain cancer. So I rather feel that, while I'm still as careful as ever, I'd like to get some flying done before my number comes up. It's too much fun, and a delight and priviledge.
I am, however, fishing around for additional life (and permanent disability) insurance at the moment, so would be very pleased to hear of suggestions or recommendations!
Happy flying,
Windrusher
In over 20 years of gliding (and one of power flying, together with a number of trips in balloons and the odd skirmish in a microlight), I have known one acquaintance who was killed in a gliding accident: a very experienced, very steady pilot, so particularly sobering. However, in that time, three pilots I knew have died through heart attacks and brain cancer. So I rather feel that, while I'm still as careful as ever, I'd like to get some flying done before my number comes up. It's too much fun, and a delight and priviledge.
I am, however, fishing around for additional life (and permanent disability) insurance at the moment, so would be very pleased to hear of suggestions or recommendations!
Happy flying,
Windrusher
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Re: Risky business . . .
Me, I'm nervous every time before I fly but the moment I get the engine started I just enjoy it.
Why do you think we all read accident statistics, read all the articles in the flying mags about safety? Because of our concerns we (well most of us) make it part of our hobby to take into account the hazards of flying GA.
When did you last see a car driver check his oil, his tyres? Do car mags have articles on safety and safe driving techniques? Car accidents always happen to other people, in GA we are a smaller community and relate more closely to events when an accident occurs.
You're certainly not alone but life without risk is life without value.
Why do you think we all read accident statistics, read all the articles in the flying mags about safety? Because of our concerns we (well most of us) make it part of our hobby to take into account the hazards of flying GA.
When did you last see a car driver check his oil, his tyres? Do car mags have articles on safety and safe driving techniques? Car accidents always happen to other people, in GA we are a smaller community and relate more closely to events when an accident occurs.
You're certainly not alone but life without risk is life without value.
sua cuique voluptas
Re: Risky business . . .
Originally Posted by funfly
Me, I'm nervous every time before I fly but the moment I get the engine started I just enjoy it.
I asked my grizzled old instructor what he felt and I've never forgotten his answer. "The day I don't get that feeling is the day I give up flying: it's Nature's way of keeping you alive!"
Years later, even before a flight in light winds (especially in light winds!) in my balloon, I still get this. As you say it goes away as soon as she "goes Light and Live".
Stay safe. I've seldom seen as much collective wisdom in a thread.
Ripline
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Re: Risky business . . .
this is truely a great thread. makes a very intresting read indeed. having had 3 lessons towards a PPL (started at a bad time! should have waited for better weather..) i must admit i thought i was the only one who has these thoughts and worrys. its nice to know im not alone, and that there are many safety consciouse pilots out there.
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Re: Risky business . . .
I started flying 8 years ago, at 49. During training I always had the ‘butterflies’ before each flight. About then, I read in “West with the Night” Beryl Markham’s comment that she had over 150 hours before she stopped getting them before a flight. I wondered how many hours I would have by the time they stopped for me.
I have over 450 flight hours now, I own my plane, and I still get them. Every time. They begin before I leave the house to drive to the airport; they stay with me during the pull out, and the preflight. They end when the engine fires up. Occasionally they reappear briefly, before what I think might be a challenging landing, but by the time I turn on final they are gone.
They are nature’s way of reminding you to pay attention to what you are doing, they are quite natural.
Is flying risky? I think IO 540 is right; riding a motorcycle in the U.K. is probably more deadly. Everything has its risks.
Here are two thoughts:
1. If I could change anything in my life, I wish I could have taken up flying earlier.
2. Nobody lives forever, nobody.
Enjoy life; it’s a one way trip. If you really want to do something, get on with it. Read # 2 again.
Regards,
W.B.
I have over 450 flight hours now, I own my plane, and I still get them. Every time. They begin before I leave the house to drive to the airport; they stay with me during the pull out, and the preflight. They end when the engine fires up. Occasionally they reappear briefly, before what I think might be a challenging landing, but by the time I turn on final they are gone.
They are nature’s way of reminding you to pay attention to what you are doing, they are quite natural.
Is flying risky? I think IO 540 is right; riding a motorcycle in the U.K. is probably more deadly. Everything has its risks.
Here are two thoughts:
1. If I could change anything in my life, I wish I could have taken up flying earlier.
2. Nobody lives forever, nobody.
Enjoy life; it’s a one way trip. If you really want to do something, get on with it. Read # 2 again.
Regards,
W.B.
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Re: Risky business . . .
Couldn't agree more.
I am quite worried on the ground. The slightest lapse in concentration and your wingtip touches another one and...... a £5000 bill. As with car accidents, the other party is likely to make the most of it.
The best single thing one can do for safety is to get instrument training, and buy the best GPS one can, and use it all the time, for primary navigation (with navaid backup if poss). The reduced cockpit workload means one can think about all the other stuff.
I also think that there is such a broad spectrum of pilot currency, maintenance standards (I mean actual maintenance skills, not paper standards), aircraft ages, aircraft conditions, that the statistics cannot be very meaningful. The averages are published but the standard deviation isn't and I am sure the SD in this business is massive. This means that a pilot who is reasonably careful is going to be subjected to a much lower risk than the average.
I am quite worried on the ground. The slightest lapse in concentration and your wingtip touches another one and...... a £5000 bill. As with car accidents, the other party is likely to make the most of it.
The best single thing one can do for safety is to get instrument training, and buy the best GPS one can, and use it all the time, for primary navigation (with navaid backup if poss). The reduced cockpit workload means one can think about all the other stuff.
I also think that there is such a broad spectrum of pilot currency, maintenance standards (I mean actual maintenance skills, not paper standards), aircraft ages, aircraft conditions, that the statistics cannot be very meaningful. The averages are published but the standard deviation isn't and I am sure the SD in this business is massive. This means that a pilot who is reasonably careful is going to be subjected to a much lower risk than the average.
