What the ####s happening at Oban?
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Great I thought I had missed the Oban flyin and even better news is the dates as I am on holiday for the 7/8th so count me in and I will contact my buddies at the Glasgow Helibase to see if I can get Helimed 5 to come out to play too.
I know that Tam and the rest love to stop at Oban for Jammy Dodgers.
Paul needs all the support he can get and I cant believe the council cant see what a brilliant job he was doing in attracting new custom to the airfield.
Maybe they can and dont like his success! The Green Eyed Monster has raised its ugly head
John.
I know that Tam and the rest love to stop at Oban for Jammy Dodgers.
Paul needs all the support he can get and I cant believe the council cant see what a brilliant job he was doing in attracting new custom to the airfield.
Maybe they can and dont like his success! The Green Eyed Monster has raised its ugly head
John.
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14th it is then, with the option of the 15th if weather looks dodgy.
If anyone wants to go but hasn't got an a/c, then we can take about 6/7 people in the Islander from Cumbernauld.
If anyone wants to go but hasn't got an a/c, then we can take about 6/7 people in the Islander from Cumbernauld.
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Bloody Outrageous!!!! 
Paul is a great guy always made me and my crews feel very welcome, many a night stop in oban, this will be a great loss to the west coast of Scotland.
Typical bloody politics and people running things they neither care or understand into the ground for a few coffers.
Paul is a great guy always made me and my crews feel very welcome, many a night stop in oban, this will be a great loss to the west coast of Scotland.
Typical bloody politics and people running things they neither care or understand into the ground for a few coffers.
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Sounds like a good idea, but will Paul & Brian still be there in Jan?
See other Oban threads (sorry no link)
I would have liked to join in but going on Hols 8th to 15th.
I'll check this thread on return incase the fly-in date moves back though.
See other Oban threads (sorry no link)
I would have liked to join in but going on Hols 8th to 15th.
I'll check this thread on return incase the fly-in date moves back though.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
Only been a couple of times to Oban, the first to explore the locality, i.e., the Scottish Islands. Paul & Brian are the best ambassadors for that part of the world, bar NONE!! The hospitality and helpful attitude is an education for most other airfields in the UK. If this all goes ahead, it will be worst case of nose cutting off this century. Can't the council see what they're going to lose??
We'll do our best to be there on the 14th/15th.... Suffering jammy doger withdrawall symptoms already!
We'll do our best to be there on the 14th/15th.... Suffering jammy doger withdrawall symptoms already!
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
The happenings at Oban made me so incensed that I finally got around to registering on this site!
Count me in for the fly-in! I will be coming from Suffolk and will try to arrange some other aircraft aswell. Hope the weather will be ok!
SAS, I have pm'd you.
Count me in for the fly-in! I will be coming from Suffolk and will try to arrange some other aircraft aswell. Hope the weather will be ok!
SAS, I have pm'd you.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
So, are we going for the 14th, with 15th as weather option? Need to know to let the chaps know here. Should be able to get 1-4 aeroplanes from this end - that includes you, PH-UKU. You can leave the tin-pushing to others that weekend!
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
The goings on at Oban and, especially, this thread have propelled me at long last into registering on PPRuNe.
I know Paul Keegan quite well and I had a long telephone conversation with him this afternoon. I'd like to share with you the upshot of this conversation, at least as far as it relates to a possible flyin. I make no recommendations, I merely provide material for discussion.
Paul is far from happy that a flyin, especially at this time, would aid his cause, or that of a GA friendly Oban.
1. PPR is a concern. You have to contact the council and pay in advance. Otherwise you don't have PPR. Large numbers of GA pilots turning up without proper PPR could be very viewed in a very negative light by the council.
2. There is no radio at Oban. This clearly has safety implications, especially if the WX is less than friendly, as it often is at this time of the year. Yes, we can use the Oban frequency as a sort of SafetyCom but that has its own legality issues. An example of Paul's concern is if the wind is calm and people try landing on 01 and 19 simultaneously! Yes, I know we wouldn't do that... would we?
3. Negotiations are at a delicate stage and there is much ground to cover, both for Paul and for the council. A flyin at such a time could be perceived as being provocative by certain factions.
Paul would love to sell us all some AvGas and, of course, there's no problem with small numbers of aircraft, correctly PPR'd, etc. A mass rally at Oban might not be quite such a good idea.
I have my aircraft booked for next Saturday and am as game as anyone else to fly up to Oban. We ought to carefully think what it is that we are trying to achieve and consider whether a mass flyin will further our cause.
John.
G-JLIN - Carlisle
I know Paul Keegan quite well and I had a long telephone conversation with him this afternoon. I'd like to share with you the upshot of this conversation, at least as far as it relates to a possible flyin. I make no recommendations, I merely provide material for discussion.
Paul is far from happy that a flyin, especially at this time, would aid his cause, or that of a GA friendly Oban.
1. PPR is a concern. You have to contact the council and pay in advance. Otherwise you don't have PPR. Large numbers of GA pilots turning up without proper PPR could be very viewed in a very negative light by the council.
2. There is no radio at Oban. This clearly has safety implications, especially if the WX is less than friendly, as it often is at this time of the year. Yes, we can use the Oban frequency as a sort of SafetyCom but that has its own legality issues. An example of Paul's concern is if the wind is calm and people try landing on 01 and 19 simultaneously! Yes, I know we wouldn't do that... would we?
3. Negotiations are at a delicate stage and there is much ground to cover, both for Paul and for the council. A flyin at such a time could be perceived as being provocative by certain factions.
Paul would love to sell us all some AvGas and, of course, there's no problem with small numbers of aircraft, correctly PPR'd, etc. A mass rally at Oban might not be quite such a good idea.
I have my aircraft booked for next Saturday and am as game as anyone else to fly up to Oban. We ought to carefully think what it is that we are trying to achieve and consider whether a mass flyin will further our cause.
John.
G-JLIN - Carlisle
Last edited by The Westmorland Flye; 7th Jan 2006 at 17:38.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
Originally Posted by The Westmorland Flye
You have to contact the council and pay in advance. Otherwise you don't have PPR.
I'm struggling to think of anywhere else in the UK (world??) where you have to 'pay in advance' ???
Contracturally, if you then do not use the facility that has been paid for, how can a UK public body accept payments for services that are not supplied?
AND if you were to crash en route in poor or declining met conditions due pressonitis because you had paid for a service that you could not reclaim if you did not use it, would Oban Council be liable ??
Confirms for me all of the worst rumours about politicians the world over.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
Sounds like a fly-in is off.
Now where can I take the Chippy next weekend, then....Need a grass refamil.....Mull is the best in the locale. Aircraft might be a 22A but it'll still need fuel to get back home. Hmmm.
Now where can I take the Chippy next weekend, then....Need a grass refamil.....Mull is the best in the locale. Aircraft might be a 22A but it'll still need fuel to get back home. Hmmm.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
I think a thorough rethink is necessary, the sheer volume of people wishing to attend has turned this into something that needs to be done properly, rather than any ad-hoc fly-in, especially with upto 50 a/c at an uncontrolled and non radio field.
I know Paul has reservations and at the moment so do I. If there were any incidents or problems it would play directly into the hands of those who seemingly want to wreck Oban as it is.
I've had a few ideas and I'll check on the feasibility of them over the next couple of days, but this is something that while it may be a morale booster, could actually be a hindrance in the long term.
Stay tuned though, something WILL be sorted out to show Paul our support, but it needs to be appropriate.
Sorry for the change at a late stage, but this needs to be done correctly. I'll keep you all updated over the next couple of days.
I know Paul has reservations and at the moment so do I. If there were any incidents or problems it would play directly into the hands of those who seemingly want to wreck Oban as it is.
I've had a few ideas and I'll check on the feasibility of them over the next couple of days, but this is something that while it may be a morale booster, could actually be a hindrance in the long term.
Stay tuned though, something WILL be sorted out to show Paul our support, but it needs to be appropriate.
Sorry for the change at a late stage, but this needs to be done correctly. I'll keep you all updated over the next couple of days.
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Re: What the ####s happening at Oban?
We have a strikingly similar situation here in Pemberton.
Twenty odd years ago the government spent millions building an airport as part of a regional development plan. A few years later they spent a bucket load more upgrading and building a smart terminal so we could have a local airline. Result: One very nice, very expensive, and very empty terminal.
Then they spent another bucket load installing the answer to all our problems, a microwave landing system. Did not work that well and no one used it so they took it away.
For many years the local council have not allowed anyone to start anything on the airport because they were "waiting to see what important development" would happen. Of course none did.
As nearby Whistler desperately needs some decent air access Pemberton has been touted as the answer. The problem is there is a bloody great mountain 400 yds off the end of the runway and the approach would be 400 ft over the village with a turn at late finals that coincides with wind shear from the inflow from two valleys. You can't come in the other way because that leaves you without an overshoot. The valley is steep and clouded down to the ground 50% of the days in Winter, I don't even bother counting the times I have literally driven into a wall of cloud just as I turn the bend into the valley on my way to the airport. A regular 737 service, which is what the local council wants, is just not going to happen.
Last year they commissioned a consultant. Consultant said the runway could be lengthened to 737 useable length (towards the hill!) and drew pretty plans showing little housing lots abutting the taxiway. He commented that he did not know if the approach clearances to the golf club etc would be acceptable and he did not even mention minima as a problem (what were they paying him $40,000 for?) and everyone on council said "What a wonderful report, this could be 'the big one,' now we must have some more discussion."
Oh yes, did I mention that they have just built a big new sewage works just next to and on part of where the housing lots are projected because they needed it in a hurry and the council already owned the airport. Crown land was available just a little further away but they did not want to wait for the application and granting process.
In the meantime they have skipped so many small simple opportunities that would make the airport more attractive that it makes you cry. (No public toilets because they are in the airport building which is locked up, no access to the municipal golf club (which does a decent breakfast) even though it is just a few yards away. No new small business on the airport as mentioned above, no snow clearing.
I suspect they will still be looking for "the big one" in another twenty years time. Funnily enough (well it's not funny really) Squamish, which is about the same distancee the other way (South) is in almost exactly the same position, (except that I don't think they have commissioned the $40,000 consultant's report yet.) Same approach (different hill!), same lack of facilities, same attitude, same answers to locals who want to do something there.
It is almost surreal.
Twenty odd years ago the government spent millions building an airport as part of a regional development plan. A few years later they spent a bucket load more upgrading and building a smart terminal so we could have a local airline. Result: One very nice, very expensive, and very empty terminal.
Then they spent another bucket load installing the answer to all our problems, a microwave landing system. Did not work that well and no one used it so they took it away.
For many years the local council have not allowed anyone to start anything on the airport because they were "waiting to see what important development" would happen. Of course none did.
As nearby Whistler desperately needs some decent air access Pemberton has been touted as the answer. The problem is there is a bloody great mountain 400 yds off the end of the runway and the approach would be 400 ft over the village with a turn at late finals that coincides with wind shear from the inflow from two valleys. You can't come in the other way because that leaves you without an overshoot. The valley is steep and clouded down to the ground 50% of the days in Winter, I don't even bother counting the times I have literally driven into a wall of cloud just as I turn the bend into the valley on my way to the airport. A regular 737 service, which is what the local council wants, is just not going to happen.
Last year they commissioned a consultant. Consultant said the runway could be lengthened to 737 useable length (towards the hill!) and drew pretty plans showing little housing lots abutting the taxiway. He commented that he did not know if the approach clearances to the golf club etc would be acceptable and he did not even mention minima as a problem (what were they paying him $40,000 for?) and everyone on council said "What a wonderful report, this could be 'the big one,' now we must have some more discussion."
Oh yes, did I mention that they have just built a big new sewage works just next to and on part of where the housing lots are projected because they needed it in a hurry and the council already owned the airport. Crown land was available just a little further away but they did not want to wait for the application and granting process.
In the meantime they have skipped so many small simple opportunities that would make the airport more attractive that it makes you cry. (No public toilets because they are in the airport building which is locked up, no access to the municipal golf club (which does a decent breakfast) even though it is just a few yards away. No new small business on the airport as mentioned above, no snow clearing.
I suspect they will still be looking for "the big one" in another twenty years time. Funnily enough (well it's not funny really) Squamish, which is about the same distancee the other way (South) is in almost exactly the same position, (except that I don't think they have commissioned the $40,000 consultant's report yet.) Same approach (different hill!), same lack of facilities, same attitude, same answers to locals who want to do something there.
It is almost surreal.
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Just looking at these posts, and thinking forward to summer flights in the glens, the least I should do for that A1 aviation gentleman Paul Keegan is to write to Argyll Council & complain about how matters are going downhill
. Can someone tell me who the relevant person is, the chairman or whatever of the council?
. Can someone tell me who the relevant person is, the chairman or whatever of the council?
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Flew into Oban a couple of years ago and arrived at the same time as a gaggle of Shadows. Two particularly beautiful examples of the Shadow, one Sky Blue and the other Yellow just took off after we landed and the sight of them sprinting off towards Glenforsa was spectacular. Presumably to unload the gallons of hot coffee forced on them by the lads at Oban.
Great time had by all and Paul was just so friendly and helpful. There seemed to be a lot of Paul's friendly helpers around for advice on just about anything, especially the safest routes around the West of Scotland for the novices among us. Spectacular scenery.
T'would be a shame if Oban falls to the great capitalist venture !
Great time had by all and Paul was just so friendly and helpful. There seemed to be a lot of Paul's friendly helpers around for advice on just about anything, especially the safest routes around the West of Scotland for the novices among us. Spectacular scenery.
T'would be a shame if Oban falls to the great capitalist venture !
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I think it may be wise to stop letting heart rule head as Westmoreland Flyer suggests.
There are a number of very experienced GA operators on this forum I wonder if any of them feel willing to approach the council with words of free advice in everyone's best interests?
Notwithstanding the long term aims, they have created a short term problem but if PK feels willing to enter into a short term commercial arrangement to manage the interregnum it would have beneficial impact on his fuel sales, beneficial impact on the utilisation of the airfield and consequent revenue and we might even create a forum where the Council's plans can be assisted without bu66ering up GA in the Highlands.
The big question is there a senior officer in the Council who might listen and then advise the members?
There are a number of very experienced GA operators on this forum I wonder if any of them feel willing to approach the council with words of free advice in everyone's best interests?
Notwithstanding the long term aims, they have created a short term problem but if PK feels willing to enter into a short term commercial arrangement to manage the interregnum it would have beneficial impact on his fuel sales, beneficial impact on the utilisation of the airfield and consequent revenue and we might even create a forum where the Council's plans can be assisted without bu66ering up GA in the Highlands.
The big question is there a senior officer in the Council who might listen and then advise the members?
Jammy Dodgers!!!!!
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I notice that in today's Flight International, Argyll and Bute council are advertising for an airfield development manager for Oban Coll and Colonsay , (£41000 if anyone is interested) Does anyone have any idea whether Paul Keegan has applied for the post?
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The chap who was originally given the job turned it down at the last minute. He was supposed to have started this week.
I spoke to Paul on Monday and there are a few developments, for a start it seems the council forgot about a small piece of legislation called TUPE, which of course they have been reminded of now.
We really need to have a letter writing campaign otherwise I can see the end of GA at Oban for the forseeable future and that isn't acceptable.
I spoke to Paul on Monday and there are a few developments, for a start it seems the council forgot about a small piece of legislation called TUPE, which of course they have been reminded of now.
We really need to have a letter writing campaign otherwise I can see the end of GA at Oban for the forseeable future and that isn't acceptable.
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I have already emailed various parties about this fiasco when it was first publicised in the mags, but would be very happy to keep writing to anyone and everyone if anything can be done to save this little scottish jewel from further dilapidation. Does anyone know who specifically to write to about this ridiculous malarky?