Danger areas??
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Depends...
Are you a real flier or a simmer?
If you're a real flier (profile says UK) then many danger areas can be crossed. You don't have to talk to anyone, just fly straight across them. However, they're probably called danger areas for a reason! Check your half mil chart - the danger areas are listed in the key, along with the station to call for a crossing service. Its worth it because you can often cross even when the areas are listed as active. I guess the military take a lot of tea breaks!
However, be careful because some of the danger areas are also prohibited or restricted. You can get a chart which states which are, and details are also in the AIP. I'm not sure which ones 'cos I'm an ATCO, not a pilot.
Are you a real flier or a simmer?
If you're a real flier (profile says UK) then many danger areas can be crossed. You don't have to talk to anyone, just fly straight across them. However, they're probably called danger areas for a reason! Check your half mil chart - the danger areas are listed in the key, along with the station to call for a crossing service. Its worth it because you can often cross even when the areas are listed as active. I guess the military take a lot of tea breaks!
However, be careful because some of the danger areas are also prohibited or restricted. You can get a chart which states which are, and details are also in the AIP. I'm not sure which ones 'cos I'm an ATCO, not a pilot.
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Machlimeter99
By their very nature, danger areas tend to be outside of controlled airspace.
Despite what the charts may appear to display, danger areas are not permanent but exist for periods and to altitudes that change on a daily basis.
If you are concerned that your proposed flight will take you into or close to a danger area then I suggest that you visit www.ais.org.uk click on pre-prepared PIB then on your particular area of interest ( works only for the uk ).
This gives a daily briefing of expected danger area activity. athough I would still always countenance calling any danger area activity frequency to double check.
As mentioned before, restricted and prohibited areas are different and their restrictions to flying are permanent.
Hope this helps
Wheely
Despite what the charts may appear to display, danger areas are not permanent but exist for periods and to altitudes that change on a daily basis.
If you are concerned that your proposed flight will take you into or close to a danger area then I suggest that you visit www.ais.org.uk click on pre-prepared PIB then on your particular area of interest ( works only for the uk ).
This gives a daily briefing of expected danger area activity. athough I would still always countenance calling any danger area activity frequency to double check.
As mentioned before, restricted and prohibited areas are different and their restrictions to flying are permanent.
Hope this helps
Wheely
Some UK DA's have byelaws which make it an offence to enter when active; these are listed in the UK AIP.
I know of cases where Salisbury Plain DA's have been entered at a weekend by civil aircraft, and they have been traced and prosecuted for 'endangering the safety of an aircraft'.
If the DA is a firing range with a hazard in excess of 500ft agl, they will normally have 'air sentries' posted whose specific job is to make note and warn the Range Conducting Officer (RCO) of any aircraft they see which might infringe the safety trace; the RCO could then pass these details on to the relevant authorities for trace action.
I know of cases where Salisbury Plain DA's have been entered at a weekend by civil aircraft, and they have been traced and prosecuted for 'endangering the safety of an aircraft'.
If the DA is a firing range with a hazard in excess of 500ft agl, they will normally have 'air sentries' posted whose specific job is to make note and warn the Range Conducting Officer (RCO) of any aircraft they see which might infringe the safety trace; the RCO could then pass these details on to the relevant authorities for trace action.
CDB
Are you really condoning flying through active danger areas without talking to anyone?!
I have to say that, as I mil pilot, I am more than a little horrified by that statement.
I can only speak for military ops, but if I wish to transit a danger area I will ask London Military to co-ordinate it, ie crossing Donna Nook or Holbeach on an RTB.
However, taking an a/c through an area where I can guarantee people are busy doing some wacky flying and not expecting stangers is not a good idea. Not such a problem in the north sea MDA's where guys are receiving a service but a different story in other areas.
Hopefully I have just strayed onto the wrong forum and not grabbed the right end of the stick here.
Standing by for additionals.
BV
I have to say that, as I mil pilot, I am more than a little horrified by that statement.
I can only speak for military ops, but if I wish to transit a danger area I will ask London Military to co-ordinate it, ie crossing Donna Nook or Holbeach on an RTB.
However, taking an a/c through an area where I can guarantee people are busy doing some wacky flying and not expecting stangers is not a good idea. Not such a problem in the north sea MDA's where guys are receiving a service but a different story in other areas.
Hopefully I have just strayed onto the wrong forum and not grabbed the right end of the stick here.
Standing by for additionals.
BV
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A civil pilot is not breaking the law by entering a Danger Area without talking to anybody. This is because the vast majority of danger areas are marked on charts for your information and have no special status. The same is true for parachute DZs, Gliding Sites and many other similar symbols on Aeronatical charts.
However, as has been noted, certain Danger Areas are established by Byelaws. Entering such a danger area will expose the pilot to the risk of action under the byelaw concerned.
Entering any danger area exposes the pilot to the risk of CAA action under the ANO on the basis of his having endangered an aircraft an its occupants.
Perhaps more importantly than all of this though, is the common sense position that if you enter an active danger area without obtaining a Danger Area Crossing Service, then you are a fool.
2D
However, as has been noted, certain Danger Areas are established by Byelaws. Entering such a danger area will expose the pilot to the risk of action under the byelaw concerned.
Entering any danger area exposes the pilot to the risk of CAA action under the ANO on the basis of his having endangered an aircraft an its occupants.
Perhaps more importantly than all of this though, is the common sense position that if you enter an active danger area without obtaining a Danger Area Crossing Service, then you are a fool.
2D
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 7th Dec 2005 at 10:16.
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You don't have to talk to anyone, just fly straight across them.
Apparently, the most infringed DA is D138, just to the east of Southend. It protected the Foulness firing ranges and there's not much possibilty of your average SEP going over the top of it as the ceiling is "35.0 ONCL 60.0"
DAs and MATZs - ask before you enter.
Hythe Ranges (Kent) are also frequently infringed - presumably by the 'let's go to Calais for sunday lunch' brigade.
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I agree with all that's been said, and as a UK PPL I have been trained to get a DAAIS or DACS (Danger Area Activity Information or Crossing Service, respectively) before entereing, and if I can't find out from DAAIS or DACS or London Info, I don't enter (unless NOTAM'd as inactive / or only activated by NOTAM and not currently so, etc).
However, it's worth bearing in mind that foreign pilots can be confused by the way Danger Areas are treated in the UK: In Australia for instance (caveat: I have very few hrs flying time in Australia except when home on holidays) they seem to have more of a "Warning" status, e.g. civilian training areas west of Sydney are "Danger" areas, as is the section of Sydney harbour where the sea-planes operate. Often in foreign jurisdictions, MIL use airspace is otherwise classified as e.g. Prohibited or Restricted, or some local variant, not "just" Danger.
Andy
However, it's worth bearing in mind that foreign pilots can be confused by the way Danger Areas are treated in the UK: In Australia for instance (caveat: I have very few hrs flying time in Australia except when home on holidays) they seem to have more of a "Warning" status, e.g. civilian training areas west of Sydney are "Danger" areas, as is the section of Sydney harbour where the sea-planes operate. Often in foreign jurisdictions, MIL use airspace is otherwise classified as e.g. Prohibited or Restricted, or some local variant, not "just" Danger.
Andy
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A civil pilot is not breaking the law by entering a Danger Area without talking to anybody
Case is point:
A flight lead of an US Army UH60 2 ship decided to fly into one of the DA we have in our TMA without coordination. (You have to call Range Control on UHF, so only possible for MIL chaps) His reason was, that "they are probably not firing, and I'm just gonna cut the corner".
Do you think he was thinking differently, when he 3 minutes later crossed a ridgeline, and flew over 6 well camo'ed 155mm artillery pieces just as they let of a salvo????
Brow trouser moment that!
Why do it if it's not fun?
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While I agree with pretty much all the answers so far, I'm pretty confused by the bits and bobs of information! Can I try to tidy this thread up with an attempt at a complete answer, from the UK point of view if nothing else?
There is nothing in the ANO which prevents you from flying through a danger area. (Unlike a prohibited area or a restricted area, both of which are out of bounds unless specifically stated otherwise.) However, it is generally considered to be pretty stupid to fly through danger areas without speaking to anyone first, in the same way as it is considered stupid to fly through a MATZ or a parachute site without talking to anyone, but it's not illegal to do so.
There are exceptions to this. There are a significant number of danger areas where, although the ANO does not prohibit flight through them, local bye-laws do prohibit you from going there when they are active. These are indicated on the charts by a "*" symbol immediately prior to the danger areas' identifiers.
Many danger areas have frequencies or phone numbers which can be used to get information about the area. The information is classed as either a Danger Area Activity Information Service - DAAIS, in which case they will tell you whether or not the danger area is active, or maybe if the area is active but not right the way up to its upper limits; or a Danger Area Crossing Service, in which case they will maintain contact with you while you cross the danger area, and liase with whomever is carrying out the dangerous operation to ensure that you are safe.
A DAAIS is indicated on the chart by a squiggly symbol, a DACS is indicated by a cross - both of these appear on the chart immediately before the areas' identifiers (together the "*", if appropriate, to indicate that it is illegal to enter the area if it is active). Details of the frequencies or phone numbers from which the DAAIS or the DACS is actually obtained can be found in the notes at the bottom of the chart.
Hopefully that's pulled together all the answers so far, and added a couple of missing bits?
The DAAIS and DACS, by the way, are extremely useful. Many danger areas are often not active. If I find a danger area on my direct track somewhere, and there is a DACS or DAAIS available, I will always plan to contact the relevant service and go straight through the danger area - although obviously with the backup plan of going around it if it turns out to be active.
FFF
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There is nothing in the ANO which prevents you from flying through a danger area. (Unlike a prohibited area or a restricted area, both of which are out of bounds unless specifically stated otherwise.) However, it is generally considered to be pretty stupid to fly through danger areas without speaking to anyone first, in the same way as it is considered stupid to fly through a MATZ or a parachute site without talking to anyone, but it's not illegal to do so.
There are exceptions to this. There are a significant number of danger areas where, although the ANO does not prohibit flight through them, local bye-laws do prohibit you from going there when they are active. These are indicated on the charts by a "*" symbol immediately prior to the danger areas' identifiers.
Many danger areas have frequencies or phone numbers which can be used to get information about the area. The information is classed as either a Danger Area Activity Information Service - DAAIS, in which case they will tell you whether or not the danger area is active, or maybe if the area is active but not right the way up to its upper limits; or a Danger Area Crossing Service, in which case they will maintain contact with you while you cross the danger area, and liase with whomever is carrying out the dangerous operation to ensure that you are safe.
A DAAIS is indicated on the chart by a squiggly symbol, a DACS is indicated by a cross - both of these appear on the chart immediately before the areas' identifiers (together the "*", if appropriate, to indicate that it is illegal to enter the area if it is active). Details of the frequencies or phone numbers from which the DAAIS or the DACS is actually obtained can be found in the notes at the bottom of the chart.
Hopefully that's pulled together all the answers so far, and added a couple of missing bits?
The DAAIS and DACS, by the way, are extremely useful. Many danger areas are often not active. If I find a danger area on my direct track somewhere, and there is a DACS or DAAIS available, I will always plan to contact the relevant service and go straight through the danger area - although obviously with the backup plan of going around it if it turns out to be active.
FFF
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PPruNaholic!
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Nicely summarised FFF... I have a question:
What would be the disadvantage of having these designated as Prohibited or Restricted areas? Would this not be a more "ICAO standard" approach than an exception by bye-law, which I suspect is poorly understood by locals let alone Johnie Foreigner!
Andy
There are a significant number of danger areas where, although the ANO does not prohibit flight through them, local bye-laws do prohibit you from going there when they are active. These are indicated on the charts by a "*" symbol immediately prior to the danger areas' identifiers.
Andy
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Good question, Andy.
I don't know a definitive answer, but I have an observation which may be an answer.
In the case of danger areas marked with a "*", the prohibition from entering the danger area only applies when the danger area is active. If a DAAIS is available and you can establish that it is not active, you can enter it.
This would immediately prevent it from being designated a prohibited area, since entry is not prohibited.
As for designating the area as a restricted area, my observation of restricted areas is that they are restricted with regards to the type of traffic allowed in them (e.g. only traffic on the ILS to airport XXX and then only above a certain height, or only helicopters in/out of the heliport located in the restricted area), rather by time of day or activity on the ground.
Maybe someone else has a more definitive answer though?
FFF
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I don't know a definitive answer, but I have an observation which may be an answer.
In the case of danger areas marked with a "*", the prohibition from entering the danger area only applies when the danger area is active. If a DAAIS is available and you can establish that it is not active, you can enter it.
This would immediately prevent it from being designated a prohibited area, since entry is not prohibited.
As for designating the area as a restricted area, my observation of restricted areas is that they are restricted with regards to the type of traffic allowed in them (e.g. only traffic on the ILS to airport XXX and then only above a certain height, or only helicopters in/out of the heliport located in the restricted area), rather by time of day or activity on the ground.
Maybe someone else has a more definitive answer though?
FFF
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I am horified cdb's response. A danger area is a danger area for a very good reason. Do not under any circumstances cross without checking with the notified ATC unit if it is active.
There maybe UAV's, military fast jets, large and small ordinance being fired.
If you fly through an active area, the chances are a radar unit will track you, or someone on the ground will spot you. If you are LUCKY to get through the other side, you will receive some kind of letter.
IF IN DOUBT STAY OUT!
Sorry if thats a bit in your face, but I hope gets my point across.
Safe flying!
There maybe UAV's, military fast jets, large and small ordinance being fired.
If you fly through an active area, the chances are a radar unit will track you, or someone on the ground will spot you. If you are LUCKY to get through the other side, you will receive some kind of letter.
IF IN DOUBT STAY OUT!
Sorry if thats a bit in your face, but I hope gets my point across.
Safe flying!
OK, I'll admit to having been "in charge" of several danger areas over the years.
There is no obligation in air law to avoid them, plain and simple. Sure it's stupid to fly through an air to ground or air to air range, or even to cross an artillery range that's firing a few thousand feet up into the air, but the obligation is on the danger area authority to ensure that their airspace is clear before they fire/fly/release or whatever.
The procedure under which all danger areas operate is usually referred to as the "clear range procedure". The onus is placed fairly and squarely on the controller of the danger area to ensure that the area is clear of conflicting traffic before anything takes place.
I frequently had private aircraft crossing one area I was responsible for. All I could do was get my controller to "politely" ask them to vacate the area. I recall that the military aircraft operating in the said danger area often got impatient at the delays this procedure induced, so would occasionally bounce the errant light aircraft to get it to take the hint.............
Despite all this talk of the regulations and law, it is plain stupid to fly through a danger area without a clear and specific clearance. Given that many marked danger areas are only active for limited periods, there is a very good chance that a call to the relevant danger area crossing service will let you go straight through, albeit with a request to report once you are clear.
VP
There is no obligation in air law to avoid them, plain and simple. Sure it's stupid to fly through an air to ground or air to air range, or even to cross an artillery range that's firing a few thousand feet up into the air, but the obligation is on the danger area authority to ensure that their airspace is clear before they fire/fly/release or whatever.
The procedure under which all danger areas operate is usually referred to as the "clear range procedure". The onus is placed fairly and squarely on the controller of the danger area to ensure that the area is clear of conflicting traffic before anything takes place.
I frequently had private aircraft crossing one area I was responsible for. All I could do was get my controller to "politely" ask them to vacate the area. I recall that the military aircraft operating in the said danger area often got impatient at the delays this procedure induced, so would occasionally bounce the errant light aircraft to get it to take the hint.............
Despite all this talk of the regulations and law, it is plain stupid to fly through a danger area without a clear and specific clearance. Given that many marked danger areas are only active for limited periods, there is a very good chance that a call to the relevant danger area crossing service will let you go straight through, albeit with a request to report once you are clear.
VP
