F16s intercept Cessna

[Lon More]

ANP has just released a story that a Cessna - no type or flight conditions mentioned - was intercepted last night by two F16s from Leeuwarden after entering Dutch airspace without making R/T contact. After the interception R/T contact was established.
In the first six months of this year five such interceptions have been made. The total for 2004 was ten.
Further info from Air Force press release.It was Luxemburg registered on a flight from Norway to Paris.

[M609]

Well with high AoA and flaps deployed, they would still overtake if it was a slow Cessna. I've seen a F-16 in formation with a Lynx helo once, so it's not impossible.

(Lynx stading on it's nose, F-16 on it's tail.......)

[mazzy1026]

[/NON TECHNICAL GUESS TYPE APPROACH]

I seem to recall from my cadet days, chatting to one of the F16 pilots (from USA) at the Mildenhall Air Show and he explained about a device in between the elevators at the back of the aircraft, either side of the engine, which when set to a certain angle would allow the aircraft to fly extremely slow, at a high angle of attack with enough power to create a kind of "hover" state (I fear this was something only done at airshows though, and was a device to help prevent the aircraft from staling, and doubt whether this would be done when trying to intercept a Cessna!)

[NON TECHNICAL GUESS TYPE APPROACH/]

Maz

[Megaton]

Mazzy,

'Fraid not. I think you're referring to the Viper's airbrakes which can be seen in the middle picture of these:

F16s

[mazzy1026]

That's the one mate - not sure which part I am wrong about, but have seen this manoeuvre done a few times with the use of such air-brakes

[Herbie-TZ]

Questions arise like:

* For an international flight the Cessna should have had a flightplan why were the authorities not aware of that?

* Were they totally without communications?

* Who has spotted them and where?

* Is there no verification first whether this airplane was on a flightplan?

* Who is guilty here?

And last but not least:
Who is gonna pay for the expenses and what are the further possible penalties and so...

I hope I will never get into this situation....


Grtz, Herbie

[outoftheblue]

Cessna make jets aswell!

At least Saska is awake! It wouldn't have been a 172 flying Norway - Paris would it?!

[LN-ATC]

The 172 from Norway to Paris, are we talking of mid June?

(No it wasn't me, but I might know who it was.)

[Lon More]

Herbie-TZ Unfortunately I'm out of the loop these days, however as it happened at night we can assume it was on an IFR flight, on Airways

For an international flight the Cessna should have had a flightplan why were the authorities not aware of that?

Flight Plan compulsory so they would be aware.

Were they totally without communications?

There was no R/T contact. Standard practice is to call on available frequencies plus 121.5 plus asking previous ATC unit to call again.

Who has spotted them and where

Assuming IFR Flight he would be on a discrete Mode A squawk, so any involved ATC unit would see the track.

Is there no verification first whether this airplane was on a flightplan

?? see above

Who is guilty here?

Not a question of guilt; R/F maybe, wrong freq. selected possibly. However, it requires a rather simplistic mindset, what my old flying instructor called TUBMIN - Thumb Up Bum, Mind In Neutral - to believe you can fly through some of Europe's busiest airspace without anyone talking to you for more than about 10 minutes. I've known many pilots call for a frequency check if they were not spoken to for about 10-15 minutes although they could hear conversations all around them.

Who is gonna pay for the expenses and what are the further possible penalties

At the moment the state pays. However there were plans afoot to charge it to the pilot/operator concerned, You might also expect an unscheduled landing and later a rather unfriendly arrival at your destination and a close scrutiny of all your paperwork cargo, passengers etc.

[None]

>A380focal Must be pretty tricky for an F-16 to intercept a cessna - surely the F-16 has to fly at least five times as fast?

Think about the scenario where a fighter-type is tasked with escorting a C-130 (or the like) into a higher threat area. The fighter is not going to be in that airspace at less than combat speed, which is quite a bit faster than a C-130 could manage, so a tactic for that scenario is developed. Along those lines, a tactic for intercepting a very slow mover is developed. As the environment is not hostile for a Cessna intercept, airspeed is a performance problem, not a tactical problem.

[Complex_Type]

With flaps down, nose up, full power and a decent headwind you can fly a C150 backwards. I've done it once or twice to confuse people on the ground. Should confuse an F16 enough.

[Avoiding Action]

Fly backwards you may well be able to do, but I suspect that your F16 driver will treat the warning shots he fires across your nose just the same as if he was strafing a ground target!

[BeechNut]

* For an international flight the Cessna should have had a flightplan why were the authorities not aware of that? etc.

Well yesterday I was flying through the Montreal class C terminal area and heard the controller chew out a Cessna driver for having busted class C airspace without a clearance. He flew out of an airport under the base of the Class C and climbed into the class C asking for clearance AFTER entering it. Didn't help that he was in an area where airliners are being vectored down for the approaches to CYUL.

Heard this sort of stuff so often that I'm not all that surprised at some of the stunts our private flying brethren pull off.

Beech.

[Lon More]

FWIW and better late than never;

It was a Luxembourg registered C550 from ENGM to LFPB @ FL360
Ater the a/c left EKCH airspace he didnt talk to anyone and at about PAM he came on the DECO freq but by then 2F16s were in his six about 5 thousand feet below, he said Copenhagen hadn't put him over to Maastricht. Everyone was best of friends and the dutch went home.