Joining a Super Cub syndicate
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Joining a Super Cub syndicate
After much consideration I've decided to look at buying a share. I've seen share in a Super Cub and I've arranged to look at it soon.
What questions should I be asking and what should I look out for?
Any advice on both Super Cub's and general group ownership would be appreciated.
What questions should I be asking and what should I look out for?
Any advice on both Super Cub's and general group ownership would be appreciated.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Good aircraft and good choice, unless you want to go touring.
Have you had tailwheel experience? If not, you'll have to go through the differences training
I think in previous threads it is clear we all go into a group filled with joy and optimism. What we don't prepare ourselves for, is the exit strategy - how to get your money out,
It's a bit like a marriage really, but it is always good to look at the pre-nuptial agreement to be sure you don't get trapped.
Finally, look at the group itself. Do you like/respect the other members. After all they will be using the plane when you aren't and they could be sloppy, accident-prone or just plain greedy. How is group run, what are your responsibilities and does the group has rules and proper accounts.
Don't scimp on the research, but if you are happy with all of that, a Cub is a great plane
Have you had tailwheel experience? If not, you'll have to go through the differences training
I think in previous threads it is clear we all go into a group filled with joy and optimism. What we don't prepare ourselves for, is the exit strategy - how to get your money out,
It's a bit like a marriage really, but it is always good to look at the pre-nuptial agreement to be sure you don't get trapped.
Finally, look at the group itself. Do you like/respect the other members. After all they will be using the plane when you aren't and they could be sloppy, accident-prone or just plain greedy. How is group run, what are your responsibilities and does the group has rules and proper accounts.
Don't scimp on the research, but if you are happy with all of that, a Cub is a great plane
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Looking at your Jodel D9 question I believe you are a low time pilot looking to build hours, and nothing wrong with that!
A supercub is a fine machine, one of the best, and you will never want to fly a spamcan again. It will teach you how to fly "properly"
However as well as you interviewing the group, they will want to interview you. I looked into several UK based taildragger syndicates a few years back, and every one of them was initially only interested in how many taildragger hours I had. All of them said there was high pilot interest in their syndicate, but finding somebody with acceptable taildragger hours was a problem for them. So prepare to be grilled on your experience and don't get upset if somebody doesn't want a lowtime hour builder.
So given that, have a look at this thread. There is also a good book which I cannot find on my bookshelf and have forgotten its name, but you can buy from transair, which tells you obvious things which you need to know about buying into a group.
Good luck.
A supercub is a fine machine, one of the best, and you will never want to fly a spamcan again. It will teach you how to fly "properly"
However as well as you interviewing the group, they will want to interview you. I looked into several UK based taildragger syndicates a few years back, and every one of them was initially only interested in how many taildragger hours I had. All of them said there was high pilot interest in their syndicate, but finding somebody with acceptable taildragger hours was a problem for them. So prepare to be grilled on your experience and don't get upset if somebody doesn't want a lowtime hour builder.So given that, have a look at this thread. There is also a good book which I cannot find on my bookshelf and have forgotten its name, but you can buy from transair, which tells you obvious things which you need to know about buying into a group.
Good luck.
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Super cub is a great machine - just need to learn how to use your feet - and taxi correctly!!!! - Flying it is a sinch
I used to run G-BUBA PA 18 - 150 for banner towing, photo's and glider towing and have a heap of hours on them - so if you need a conversion or want some experienced farm strip flying then pm me and we'll get you sorted. - im only driving a Stearman now
I used to run G-BUBA PA 18 - 150 for banner towing, photo's and glider towing and have a heap of hours on them - so if you need a conversion or want some experienced farm strip flying then pm me and we'll get you sorted. - im only driving a Stearman now
Join Date: Jan 2001
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What you need to do is work out what you want to get out from flying little planes. Are you are purely timebuilding for a job in the airlines, or do you want to keep flying little planes while you are flying big planes as a career? You might not know the proper answer yet, in which case if I was you I'd work on the assumption you were not going to continue flying little planes. You can always change your mind later.
I am sure cost is important to you, so I dug out a spreadsheet I used to make some rough calculations of hourly costs when I was looking into UK taildragger syndicates a couple of years back. I compared cost of UK group flying a cheap taildragger like a Jodel and a larger taildragger like a supercub. I've now put in the current cost of renting a supercub in the states, and also renting something like a C150 in the states.
For US figures I've included the cost of getting over there and accomodation for a couple of weeks in a cheap and cheerful motel. I've also included an estimated cost of getting to a UK airfield by car, which with the price of petrol now is not cheap and quite significant. I haven't included UK landing fees away from your home field (again significant if you are paying cheap group hourly costs) but have included them for your home field. For the US supercub I've included 15 hours instruction for your tailwheel endorsement.
So. The group figures are rough and ready and others may quite legitimately have different numbers. It all depends on how well groups are run as you might get unexpected nasty bills, hangerage, how much money goes into an engine fund, how many hours you fly per mission, where you go etc etc etc. The figures are worth what you paid for them, which is nowt
For 50 hours a year, a UK group Jodel works out at around £45/hour. UK group supercub around £65 per hour. US supercub around £65 hour, US spamcan £50 per hour.
For 100 hours a year, UK group Jodel £35/hour, UK supercub £50/hour, US supercub £55/hour, US spamcan £40 hour.
So the figures I use say that even if you do significant flying then UK groups are not that cheap compared to US renting. Other countries might beat the US on price, but I am familiar with the US so have used US figures. The US has pros and cons, with the pros outweighing the cons by a significant margin, IMO. The cheapest flying in the UK is on simple permit aircraft,
What I would do in your shoes is go over to the US and hour build on supercubs. If you like it, which most people do, you can come back with 50-100 tailwheel hours and join a supercub group. If you don't like it then you have the hours, but haven't spent thousands of pounds of capital outlay on a UK group plane which you might not be able to liquidate quickly if you get bored of flying, and you also avoided a commitment to monthly payments. Others on here have hour built very cheaply indeed by purchasing a plane, search for posts by Flyingforfun and Genghis Engineer has some experience in very cheap flying. The wannabees forum also has plenty of info on time building.
Anyway, my 2cents worth. Again, the numbers given are worth what you paid for it.
What you need to do is work out what you want to get out from flying little planes. Are you are purely timebuilding for a job in the airlines, or do you want to keep flying little planes while you are flying big planes as a career? You might not know the proper answer yet, in which case if I was you I'd work on the assumption you were not going to continue flying little planes. You can always change your mind later.
I am sure cost is important to you, so I dug out a spreadsheet I used to make some rough calculations of hourly costs when I was looking into UK taildragger syndicates a couple of years back. I compared cost of UK group flying a cheap taildragger like a Jodel and a larger taildragger like a supercub. I've now put in the current cost of renting a supercub in the states, and also renting something like a C150 in the states.
For US figures I've included the cost of getting over there and accomodation for a couple of weeks in a cheap and cheerful motel. I've also included an estimated cost of getting to a UK airfield by car, which with the price of petrol now is not cheap and quite significant. I haven't included UK landing fees away from your home field (again significant if you are paying cheap group hourly costs) but have included them for your home field. For the US supercub I've included 15 hours instruction for your tailwheel endorsement.
So. The group figures are rough and ready and others may quite legitimately have different numbers. It all depends on how well groups are run as you might get unexpected nasty bills, hangerage, how much money goes into an engine fund, how many hours you fly per mission, where you go etc etc etc. The figures are worth what you paid for them, which is nowt
For 50 hours a year, a UK group Jodel works out at around £45/hour. UK group supercub around £65 per hour. US supercub around £65 hour, US spamcan £50 per hour.
For 100 hours a year, UK group Jodel £35/hour, UK supercub £50/hour, US supercub £55/hour, US spamcan £40 hour.
So the figures I use say that even if you do significant flying then UK groups are not that cheap compared to US renting. Other countries might beat the US on price, but I am familiar with the US so have used US figures. The US has pros and cons, with the pros outweighing the cons by a significant margin, IMO. The cheapest flying in the UK is on simple permit aircraft,
What I would do in your shoes is go over to the US and hour build on supercubs. If you like it, which most people do, you can come back with 50-100 tailwheel hours and join a supercub group. If you don't like it then you have the hours, but haven't spent thousands of pounds of capital outlay on a UK group plane which you might not be able to liquidate quickly if you get bored of flying, and you also avoided a commitment to monthly payments. Others on here have hour built very cheaply indeed by purchasing a plane, search for posts by Flyingforfun and Genghis Engineer has some experience in very cheap flying. The wannabees forum also has plenty of info on time building.
Anyway, my 2cents worth. Again, the numbers given are worth what you paid for it.
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You may find that there is a minimum flight 'time' requirment from the insurers. In effect, if you don't have say 100 hrs P1, then you don't stand a chance. When you do, then the insurers will ask for a tail wheel course and something like 15 hrs dual with one of the group before you are allowed solo.
Of course, when you have some tail wheel time, then things are a bit more relaxed.
A Super Cub is quite good for a bit of touring as it will have at least 4 hrs flying time. A 90 hp Super Cub is I think ideal (no flaps) but a 135 HP is still good. The biggest engine (150?) is relatively uneconomical and perhaps is really only suited for glider towing.
Expect the aircraft to live in a hangar due to protecting the fabric.
Of course, when you have some tail wheel time, then things are a bit more relaxed.
A Super Cub is quite good for a bit of touring as it will have at least 4 hrs flying time. A 90 hp Super Cub is I think ideal (no flaps) but a 135 HP is still good. The biggest engine (150?) is relatively uneconomical and perhaps is really only suited for glider towing.
Expect the aircraft to live in a hangar due to protecting the fabric.
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A few things to check.
1,The status of the wing lift struts, are they sealed units or are they the un-sealed type if so they require a 2 yearly NDT check to ensure AD compliance.
2, If the cub has lived out, check for corrosion of the rear fuselage tubes and stern tube they corrode badly.
3, That all the flying control, wing and tail under surfaces have drain holes and that the holes are un obstructed. ( I once found one with a very heavy aileron, Full of water)
4, what type of whell brake units does it have? discs ok but drums can be hard to get spares for.
5 if it has a hook on it it will have worked hard.
hope this helps.
They are great aircraft to fly but not as nice as a J3/L4H
1,The status of the wing lift struts, are they sealed units or are they the un-sealed type if so they require a 2 yearly NDT check to ensure AD compliance.
2, If the cub has lived out, check for corrosion of the rear fuselage tubes and stern tube they corrode badly.
3, That all the flying control, wing and tail under surfaces have drain holes and that the holes are un obstructed. ( I once found one with a very heavy aileron, Full of water)
4, what type of whell brake units does it have? discs ok but drums can be hard to get spares for.
5 if it has a hook on it it will have worked hard.
hope this helps.
They are great aircraft to fly but not as nice as a J3/L4H
Join Date: Jun 2002
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The 90 is a very good machine, extremely economical. The 135 I would avoid as it has an O-290 for which parts are a problem. The 150 is great, loads of grunt and will get you in or out of anything, BUT it does use a lot of fuel.
I have been to Switzerland in my 150 and it is glorious for touring. We were two up with full camping gear, bags, camera etc. No problem even at 3500foot elevation strips in 33 degrees of heat. Super machine. I adore it.
QDM
I have been to Switzerland in my 150 and it is glorious for touring. We were two up with full camping gear, bags, camera etc. No problem even at 3500foot elevation strips in 33 degrees of heat. Super machine. I adore it.
QDM
