Ppl Examination Changes
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Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Ppl Examination Changes
Those studying for the PPL may wish to note that many of the current exams will be replaced shortly and will not be acceptable for any exams sat after 1 Nov 05. Of course if you've already passed them before 1 Nov 05, they will be valid for the full period of validity for licence issue.
So don't just rely on parrot-learning the PPL Confuser!
So don't just rely on parrot-learning the PPL Confuser!
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Over the hill
Hi BEagle,
Have you got anymore information on this? For instance where/how you found out about it?
I'm taking an educated guess here in saying that I assume the only exam where the examined content has changed is airlaw - especially with respect to rule 5. I suspect the rest will just be new questions.
splatt
PS. Thinking publically here: Interestingly the PPL confuser comment implies that the exams could have been passed simply by learning the PPL confuser. For that to be the case the confuser must be a copy or, at best, a rewording of the actual exam questions - something that I find difficult to believe from the standpoint of producing safe pilots. I should hope that nobody has just parrot learned from the PPL confuser (now out of date with regard to Rule 5 anyway since April 2005!) or other practice exams! I would be really annoyed to find out that people I am sharing airspace with have huge gaps in their knowledge but managed to pass the written exams because they learned the answers to the questions and nothing else!!
Have you got anymore information on this? For instance where/how you found out about it?
I'm taking an educated guess here in saying that I assume the only exam where the examined content has changed is airlaw - especially with respect to rule 5. I suspect the rest will just be new questions.
splatt
PS. Thinking publically here: Interestingly the PPL confuser comment implies that the exams could have been passed simply by learning the PPL confuser. For that to be the case the confuser must be a copy or, at best, a rewording of the actual exam questions - something that I find difficult to believe from the standpoint of producing safe pilots. I should hope that nobody has just parrot learned from the PPL confuser (now out of date with regard to Rule 5 anyway since April 2005!) or other practice exams! I would be really annoyed to find out that people I am sharing airspace with have huge gaps in their knowledge but managed to pass the written exams because they learned the answers to the questions and nothing else!!
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From: Over the hill
Good to hear it DRJAD 
I've done a bit of digging around the CAA website this morning. Section 2.5.5 of Flight Crew Licensing Standards Document 11 Version 5 seems to point to the changes BEagle refers to.
splatt
I've done a bit of digging around the CAA website this morning. Section 2.5.5 of Flight Crew Licensing Standards Document 11 Version 5 seems to point to the changes BEagle refers to.
splatt
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: UK
I also agree however I spent a month learning to fly on a residential course sharing rooms with other student pilots. Some of the young students put huge faith in the idea that learning the confuser would produce results. I did try to tell them it wouldn't, but they did tend to scrape through their exams.
The sky is a more scary place every time someone with that mindset passes.....
BW
The sky is a more scary place every time someone with that mindset passes.....
BW
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From: EuroGA.org
Each CAA exam is 25 questions. The PPL Confuser has about 100 questions for each exam.
IMV anyone who can manage the astonishing feat of memorising the correct letter for each multiple choice answer for each of 100 questions (300 choices in all) deserves an ATPL
And that's assuming they swot up just one exam at a time. Also, the questions aren't exact copies, they are just very similar, so even bringing the book into the exam room would be of little help.
I did actually understand the material but still found the PPC Confuser invaluable as a revision material. Much of the stuff is dross anyway, not relevant to flying.
Ultimately, the problem is the lack of ground school in the PPL. I doubt most schools would want to run it anyway, because there's a lot more money to be made renting out a plane, with an ATPL hour builder instructor, paid say £15/hour, in the RH seat.
IMV anyone who can manage the astonishing feat of memorising the correct letter for each multiple choice answer for each of 100 questions (300 choices in all) deserves an ATPL
And that's assuming they swot up just one exam at a time. Also, the questions aren't exact copies, they are just very similar, so even bringing the book into the exam room would be of little help.I did actually understand the material but still found the PPC Confuser invaluable as a revision material. Much of the stuff is dross anyway, not relevant to flying.
Ultimately, the problem is the lack of ground school in the PPL. I doubt most schools would want to run it anyway, because there's a lot more money to be made renting out a plane, with an ATPL hour builder instructor, paid say £15/hour, in the RH seat.
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From: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
I would be really annoyed to find out that people I am sharing airspace with have huge gaps in their knowledge but managed to pass the written exams because they learned the answers to the questions and nothing else!!
Still I suppose it's no difference to driving on the roads - I have not read the Highway Code for 40 years and often wonder what some of the strange road signs and markings mean.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
There is another change in the latest Standards Document 11 V5, which I hope is merely a cock-up....
Hitherto, in Version 04 (and probably ever since Orville and Wilbur stopped mending bikes), the guidance was:
5.2.3 Following marking of the paper and if the candidate achieves a pass, the examiner should discuss with him/her any questions that have been incorrectly answered. However, if a candidate fails, the examiner may indicate where weakness has been indicated, but should not discuss answers to specific questions.
Whereas in Version 05, it states:
4.3 Action following a PASS
4.3.1 The examiner should indicate areas where weakness has been found, but should not discuss answers to specific questions.
This is nonsense. It is vital that inexperienced pilots are debriefed in depth and specifically on those questions they failed - I've written to a Senior Belgranoist to ask him to clarify the situation.
Hitherto, in Version 04 (and probably ever since Orville and Wilbur stopped mending bikes), the guidance was:
5.2.3 Following marking of the paper and if the candidate achieves a pass, the examiner should discuss with him/her any questions that have been incorrectly answered. However, if a candidate fails, the examiner may indicate where weakness has been indicated, but should not discuss answers to specific questions.
Whereas in Version 05, it states:
4.3 Action following a PASS
4.3.1 The examiner should indicate areas where weakness has been found, but should not discuss answers to specific questions.
This is nonsense. It is vital that inexperienced pilots are debriefed in depth and specifically on those questions they failed - I've written to a Senior Belgranoist to ask him to clarify the situation.
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From: EuroGA.org
I was told (2000) by the instructor that the questions are not allowed to be discussed afterwards, to make it less likely that the candidate memorises the details and passes them on to the next person sitting.
I agree it's stupid, but given that everybody sits the same paper (the first time, anyway) perhaps the CAA doesn't want the questions to enter the public domain too much.
I agree it's stupid, but given that everybody sits the same paper (the first time, anyway) perhaps the CAA doesn't want the questions to enter the public domain too much.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
1. Your Examiner was totally wrong. Candidates who failed should not be debriefed on individual questions, just 'areas of weakness'. But those who pass should be debriefed on those questions they didn't get correct.
2. No, people do not all sit the same exam the first time - it's the Examiners choice which they sit. A record is kept to ensure that they don't sit the same paper twice.
2. No, people do not all sit the same exam the first time - it's the Examiners choice which they sit. A record is kept to ensure that they don't sit the same paper twice.
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From: Over the hill
Just a quick update, I wrote and passed my airlaw exam this morning 
and indeed wrote the new paper (013/05).
As BEagle pointed out in the literature, I was only told what areas were weak, despite my trying for discussion of the exact questions I got wrong. In an exam of 40 questions where the subject being examined is as broad and detailed as airlaw I really cannot see how a single incorrect answer indicates weakness in the area it was testing. It's much more likely to be the case that the student possibly hasn't ever encountered the particular fact being asked before.
I agree though that if, on the other hand, the student consistently gets questions from a certain area wrong then perhaps that would indicate weakness in that area.
Perhaps the exams should move with the times and computers can generate and mark the exams. Exam related administration work would be reduced to a minimum and everyone's exams could consist of a different set of questions (or is that already the case?).
splatt
and indeed wrote the new paper (013/05). As BEagle pointed out in the literature, I was only told what areas were weak, despite my trying for discussion of the exact questions I got wrong. In an exam of 40 questions where the subject being examined is as broad and detailed as airlaw I really cannot see how a single incorrect answer indicates weakness in the area it was testing. It's much more likely to be the case that the student possibly hasn't ever encountered the particular fact being asked before.
I agree though that if, on the other hand, the student consistently gets questions from a certain area wrong then perhaps that would indicate weakness in that area.
Perhaps the exams should move with the times and computers can generate and mark the exams. Exam related administration work would be reduced to a minimum and everyone's exams could consist of a different set of questions (or is that already the case?).
splatt
Thread Starter
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
I have had a reply from various folk in the CAA about the policy of debriefing successful PPL exam candidates; however, at the moment they're merely 'looking into it'.....
When I get the definitive answer, I will post it on here.
I charge nothing for PPL exams and, no matter what the Standards Document 11 Version 05 might say, I will continue to debrief successful candidates fully.
After all, 'should' is only a recommendation and does not constitute a mandatory requirement. Which the CAA must surely realise.....
When I get the definitive answer, I will post it on here.
I charge nothing for PPL exams and, no matter what the Standards Document 11 Version 05 might say, I will continue to debrief successful candidates fully.
After all, 'should' is only a recommendation and does not constitute a mandatory requirement. Which the CAA must surely realise.....
