How rich to own and operate a Spitfire?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How rich to own and operate a Spitfire?
I have been doing a bit of daydreaming recently. What is the consensus on how rich you need to be to own and operate a Spitfire, say, 50 hours per year?
Reckon £1m purchase price and £2500 per flying hour.
I would say you need to be worth roughly £10m so that it doesn't hurt too much.
Thoughts? Perhaps some Spitfire owners may like to comment....?!
QDM
Reckon £1m purchase price and £2500 per flying hour.
I would say you need to be worth roughly £10m so that it doesn't hurt too much.
Thoughts? Perhaps some Spitfire owners may like to comment....?!
QDM
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Surrey
Age: 43
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds about right, altho you would hopefully be able to get some money if you display it or allow it to be used in films or something.
I have to admit to giving this some thought myself
Shares anyone? 
I have to admit to giving this some thought myself
Shares anyone?
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Retford, UK
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But if you'd bought a Spitfire 20 years ago, how much money would you have made as valuations have shot up.
Don't know if that's enough to offset the maintenance costs though.
Don't know if that's enough to offset the maintenance costs though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
50K insurance sounds about right for something like this -- it's only 5% of the hull value and what's the chance of a Spit flying for 20 years with no mishaps at all?
Hmm, maybe £2.5K per flying hour is too low.
QDM
Hmm, maybe £2.5K per flying hour is too low.
QDM
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I made an idle enquiry to a Spit owner recently, I was told that it runs at about £3.5k per hour.
Insurance circa £50k
Appx 8hrs maintenance to 1 hrs flying
Merlin Engine lifed at 500hrs with rebuild figures of circa £85k before anything needed.
Bit out of my reach sadly
Insurance circa £50k
Appx 8hrs maintenance to 1 hrs flying
Merlin Engine lifed at 500hrs with rebuild figures of circa £85k before anything needed.
Bit out of my reach sadly
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I was told that it runs at about £3.5k per hour.
Insurance circa £50k
Appx 8hrs maintenance to 1 hrs flying
Merlin Engine lifed at 500hrs with rebuild figures of circa £85k before anything needed."
Mother of God. Makes me wonder how much money passed before my eyes at Flying Legens this year.
Insurance circa £50k
Appx 8hrs maintenance to 1 hrs flying
Merlin Engine lifed at 500hrs with rebuild figures of circa £85k before anything needed."
Mother of God. Makes me wonder how much money passed before my eyes at Flying Legens this year.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Io
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squadron Leader Skipper: How many hours in Spits?
Simon: Ten and a half, sir.
Squadron Leader Skipper: Let's make it eleven, before Jerrie has you for breakfast.
Pilot Officer Archie: [Watching the embarrassed pilot follow Skipper to his plane] Spring chicken to Skyhawk in one easy lesson.
Simon: Ten and a half, sir.
Squadron Leader Skipper: Let's make it eleven, before Jerrie has you for breakfast.
Pilot Officer Archie: [Watching the embarrassed pilot follow Skipper to his plane] Spring chicken to Skyhawk in one easy lesson.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
****ehawk, actually, Maxflyer. But good line, none the less. 
And dont forget....
"You can teach....... monkeys to fly better than that!"
Oh, and ......
"Takka, takka, takka, takka........"
SSD
And dont forget....
"You can teach....... monkeys to fly better than that!"
Oh, and ......
"Takka, takka, takka, takka........"
SSD
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if it is £3.5K per hour and you were able to do as much as 50hrs per year, then you are talking £175K, say £200K total to cover incidentals, per year. Maybe you could skimp it down to £150K.
Even on £10m capital it must feel like quite a lot of money. I mean, you'd have to really want to do it.
If you were worth £50m, on the other hand, you could just do it on a whim.
QDM
Even on £10m capital it must feel like quite a lot of money. I mean, you'd have to really want to do it.
If you were worth £50m, on the other hand, you could just do it on a whim.
QDM
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,670
Received 327 Likes
on
180 Posts
However you finance it, at the end it's money spent with no guaranteed return other than pure pleasure... which has to be the main aim!
I believe a major UK operator would have little interest in restoring warbirds if he - or they - couldn't fly. Hard to argue with the sentiment in my opinion.
If I had a few mil in the bank I'd buy one, or P-51, or a Bearcat - and hopefully one day be able to fly it as well. Though I'd be worried about trashing it.
One can dream QDM3, never does anybody any harm!
"I see them. Bloody marvellous!"
I believe a major UK operator would have little interest in restoring warbirds if he - or they - couldn't fly. Hard to argue with the sentiment in my opinion.
If I had a few mil in the bank I'd buy one, or P-51, or a Bearcat - and hopefully one day be able to fly it as well. Though I'd be worried about trashing it.
One can dream QDM3, never does anybody any harm!
"I see them. Bloody marvellous!"
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The closest were likely to get is buying a mk26 in kit form.
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/
2 seats, all metal and you maintain it yourself via the PFA.
Now were did I leave that spare fifty grand….. ;-)
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/
2 seats, all metal and you maintain it yourself via the PFA.
Now were did I leave that spare fifty grand….. ;-)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The biggest problem with flying these old aircraft in the UK is the CAA attitude to letting people pay for flights.
The CAA regard all passenger flights as "public transport" and so are not permmited this has the effect of making it very hard for opperators of these types to cover there costs with displays and film work.
The big problem is the buy a t-shirt and get a flight brigade , this is clearly a way of getting around the law and leads to this type of flying not being properly regulated.
It is leagal to charge for pleasure flights in permit aircraft in some parts of the EEC and so some of the more reputable opperators are trying to change the law.
Some parts of the CAA would like to see the law changed so that the practice can be properly regulated but the leagal department seems reluctant to change things.
I know one warbird company that is of the opinion that if pleasure flights became leagal there financial problems would cease overnight.
The question that I have to ask the CAA is do they think that it is better to have a warbird industry running on a shoestring with some opperators by-passing the law or to permit a "sub-public transport" passenger flying so that the industry can properly finance its self and the CAA can then be in a position to properly regulate such flying.
The CAA regard all passenger flights as "public transport" and so are not permmited this has the effect of making it very hard for opperators of these types to cover there costs with displays and film work.
The big problem is the buy a t-shirt and get a flight brigade , this is clearly a way of getting around the law and leads to this type of flying not being properly regulated.
It is leagal to charge for pleasure flights in permit aircraft in some parts of the EEC and so some of the more reputable opperators are trying to change the law.
Some parts of the CAA would like to see the law changed so that the practice can be properly regulated but the leagal department seems reluctant to change things.
I know one warbird company that is of the opinion that if pleasure flights became leagal there financial problems would cease overnight.
The question that I have to ask the CAA is do they think that it is better to have a warbird industry running on a shoestring with some opperators by-passing the law or to permit a "sub-public transport" passenger flying so that the industry can properly finance its self and the CAA can then be in a position to properly regulate such flying.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely for the purchase price one could get an ex military turboprop trainer. Similar perf to early Spitfires, and far cheaper to run per hour.
Unless I am missing something obvious, if the figure of 8hrs maintenance per hour airborne is true, a Spitfire must be (statistically speaking) constantly very close to developing a fault. Unless it is purely preventative work. What takes the 8 hours?
Unless I am missing something obvious, if the figure of 8hrs maintenance per hour airborne is true, a Spitfire must be (statistically speaking) constantly very close to developing a fault. Unless it is purely preventative work. What takes the 8 hours?
IO
You miss the point. Not everything in life can be measured by the figures on a balance sheet.
You can buy something as fast as a Spitfire.
You can buy something more comfortable for touring than a Spitfire.
You can buy something with better aerobatic performance than a Spitfire.
But it wouldn't be a Spitfire.
To see one, to hear one, to sit in one and take in the smells whilst contemplating what those young men were doing in them 65 years ago this week.
And, I am sure, to fly one.
That is why you buy a Spitfire, not because it goes quickly and makes financial sense.
Edited to add - Even though I'd prefer a Hurricane.
You miss the point. Not everything in life can be measured by the figures on a balance sheet.
You can buy something as fast as a Spitfire.
You can buy something more comfortable for touring than a Spitfire.
You can buy something with better aerobatic performance than a Spitfire.
But it wouldn't be a Spitfire.
To see one, to hear one, to sit in one and take in the smells whilst contemplating what those young men were doing in them 65 years ago this week.
And, I am sure, to fly one.
That is why you buy a Spitfire, not because it goes quickly and makes financial sense.
Edited to add - Even though I'd prefer a Hurricane.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,670
Received 327 Likes
on
180 Posts
What J.A.F.O said.
I actually don't are whether it's a Spitfire, Mustang, Bearcat, whatever... these aeroplanes have a personality way above any other.
Couple of years ago at Duxford Rob Davies and Taff Smith were getting airborne in their respective P-51s - the noise of the Merlins raised the hairs on - and sent a shiver down - my back... I hear that sound a lot, but on that occasion no one else airborne, no commentary, just that Merlin sound. Wow. And I prefer Griffon powere Spitfires. Turbines? Pah!
Yes, and I'd like a Hurricane too! And a Tigercat... and a huge win on the lottery so we can all have a go.
I actually don't are whether it's a Spitfire, Mustang, Bearcat, whatever... these aeroplanes have a personality way above any other.
Couple of years ago at Duxford Rob Davies and Taff Smith were getting airborne in their respective P-51s - the noise of the Merlins raised the hairs on - and sent a shiver down - my back... I hear that sound a lot, but on that occasion no one else airborne, no commentary, just that Merlin sound. Wow. And I prefer Griffon powere Spitfires. Turbines? Pah!
Yes, and I'd like a Hurricane too! And a Tigercat... and a huge win on the lottery so we can all have a go.