What is the meaning of this clearance?

[thalabi]

Hi,

I just got my IFR rating recently and I have been practicing by filing IFR on good VFR days to learn the system.
I have a stupid question to ask.

What is the meaning of this clearance I received the other day.
"QGD, cleared direct to Kincardine on course"
My destination is Kincardine airport and there is a an NDB, D7 called Kincardine.

[cavortingcheetah]

I would interpret that clearance to mean that I was cleared direct on track to the airfield.

[Whirlybird]

If I wasn't sure, I would ask: "Please confirm that I'm cleared to Kincardine airfield".

Nothing wrong with making sure in a case like that; the controller may not have realised that it could be ambiguous.

[Julian]

I have been issued 'Cleared direct' and generally means forget the routing on your flightplan and direct to the point stated, you then resume flight as filed from there - assuming its not your destination !

Julian.

[rustle]

QGD as a question: Are there on my track any obstructions whose elevation equals or exceeds my (datum) altitude?

QGD as an answer: There are obstructions on your track ... (figures and units) height above ...

So in your case I would expect there to be obstructions at or above your planned altitude since it was part of the clearance rather than a question from you...

cleared direct to Kincardine on course
I don't have any Canadian plates, but if the NDB is the first point of a STAR I would "expect" the clearance to be to that point - although over here the clearance would be less ambiguous and would say "cleared to the Kincardine NDB" [if there was one here ]. If there isn't a STAR to the airfield I would expect that to mean you are cleared to the airfield as filed.

[thalabi]

Thanks for those who replied so far.

The other part of my question is what is the significance of the phrase 'on course'?

[cavortingcheetah]

Far as I remember from my days flying with old 503 Sqdn on B53 out of Memphis, Texaco, that means: Track' but then we did get a mit lost over Alberquerque once.

[englishal]

What did you put on the flight plan? If Kincardine NDB is an initial approach fix for the approach, then you'd be cleared to there I would assume.

Direct indicates a direct routing, so you can head straight there, regardless of what is on the flight plan.

QGD....dunno!

[Flyin'Dutch']

Assumptions are no good.

In doubt: Ask!

[rustle]

The question asked was

What is the meaning of this clearance I received the other day.
"QGD, cleared direct to Kincardine on course"

Whether it was queried because it was ambiguous was not stated in the poster's opening question.

Why have 2 posters answered a question that wasn't asked, namely "what should I have done if I didn't understand this clearance or I thought it was ambiguous?"

[Pierre Argh]

I would expect a clearance to the beacon to be passed using the navaid designator "direct D7"... whereas clearance to the airfield would use the full name e.g. "direct Kincardine" (although of course these may be much the same geographically)

Not sure about Canadian procedures, but from my perspective "direct" is an absolute clearance, whilst "on course" means you you should not assume clearance to enter/cross CAS you encounter en-route i.e. if there is a CTZ around Kincardine you'll need to negotiate entry clearance?

Why use both phrases?... it might simply been the result of a mid- phrase correction when the controller realised the ambiguity and was trying (?) to avoid confusion. You should ask for repetition of clearance if you are unsure.

[englishal]

I would expect a clearance to the beacon to be passed using the navaid designator "direct D7"... whereas clearance to the airfield would use the full name e.g. "direct Kincardine" (although of course these may be much the same geographically)

This may be true in Europe, but in the US certainly, they would probably clear you to the beacon by its name. Here is an example:

"N1234 is cleared to Oceanside <aiport>, fly runway heading untill 500 feet, left turn 250 radar vectors to seal beach <VOR>, Victor 123, Oceanside <VOR>, climb and maintain ......etc"

As Oceanside VOR is the limit of the clearance when you get airborne and they tell you to fly "Direct Oceanside" (if they do) then you head direct to Oceanside VOR, not the airport, so you would centre the needle and fly directly to the VOR.
The flight plan (if you need to file one) would be to Oceanside VOR, which happens to be the initial approach fix for one of the Oceanside VOR approaches.

[BEagle]

Or rather:

"N1234, I have your clearance"

"N1234, go ahead"

"(Deep breath) N1234isclearedtoOceanside,flyrunwayheadinguntil500 feet,leftturn250radarvectorstotheSeal BeachVOR,Victor123,Oceanside VOR, climbmaintain....readback!"



Him who speak fast, speak twice!

[High Wing Drifter]

Him who speak fast, speak twice!

Indeed. Why is it that some controllers treat GA pilots as if they are bidders in a cattle auction? When I say "say again", they repeat it even more quickly

[Pierre Argh]

Englishal... thank you, precisely why we have to be so careful discussing such matters globally, even though we work in an International environment.

How would you differentiate then when an airport had the same, or similar name to a navaid. I can think of at least one example in the UK where they are close but not co-located (thankfully it's a low intensity airifeld?)

The way in which, I may pass a correctly phrased clearance but it can still be misinterpretted in such circumstances is scarey?

[englishal]

in the example OCN (Oceanside) vor is not on the airfield, but a few miles away. The key is the flight plan and instrument approach, you cannot plan to the airfield as such, only to an instrument approach initial approach fix. A controller in North America wouldn't clear you to the airfield, but the the navaid or fix which is the IAF of the approach (assuming your flight plan was correctly filed). So when cleared "direct Oceanside" this means you're now cleared to oceanside VOR as it is the IAF of the IAP.....

To be cleared to the field itself, you would need to be visual and request a visual approach.