Light aircraft drug smuggling
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is important to note that there is no right to land at a non designated port of entry. The police, immigration and special branch very sensibly allow it to avoid a zillion light aircraft turning up at Bournemouth and Liverpool etc. every sunday afternoon.
We are all wise to take this privilege seriously and be good boys and girls in following procedure with Gendec etc. as well as reporting the scrotes who abuse it if we get to know about them.
I have been ramp checked a number of times in the past, but not recently and I take this to imply that my regular patterns of travel are now known to the powers that be and that they've satisfied themselves that I'm an upright cirizen. But anything out of the ordinary I'd expect a visit.
We are all wise to take this privilege seriously and be good boys and girls in following procedure with Gendec etc. as well as reporting the scrotes who abuse it if we get to know about them.
I have been ramp checked a number of times in the past, but not recently and I take this to imply that my regular patterns of travel are now known to the powers that be and that they've satisfied themselves that I'm an upright cirizen. But anything out of the ordinary I'd expect a visit.
Cut & Paste Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Durham
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder to what extent the unofficial cargo was a factor in his failure to make a diversion
To carry such materials illegally could result in a two-year prison sentence. The sentence for supply or intent to supply is a maximum of 14 years imprisonment plus a fine. This could have created a powerful variation of the “get-on-home-itis” syndrome.
Lot of self induced pressure in that cockpit.
Some folk must think SB and Customs were born yesterday.
No sympathy.
IO540:
There is no need to dig out the record of the Shoreham weather on the day for it is clearly shown in the accident report. I presume therefore that you haven't read it?
The TAF covering the period of the flight was:
080847Z 0800816 VRB03 2000 BR SCT050 TEMPO 0810 0800 FG BKN010 BCMG 1113 7000 NSW
There is no need to dig out the record of the Shoreham weather on the day for it is clearly shown in the accident report. I presume therefore that you haven't read it?
The TAF covering the period of the flight was:
080847Z 0800816 VRB03 2000 BR SCT050 TEMPO 0810 0800 FG BKN010 BCMG 1113 7000 NSW
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't read it - didn't say I had read it. That's why I asked.
What were the METARs?
That TAF could be just about anything in actual, although it alone certainly isn't weather suitable for planning a VFR arrival.
Irrespective of the actual at Shoreham, someone planning a VFR arrival there on that TAF would have been prepared to draw attention. A good reason to unload somewhere else first?
As for the police activity around airfields, they DO watch a lot of stuff. According to them, there are about 80 fixed wing landing sites of various sorts just in Sussex and Kent.
What were the METARs?
That TAF could be just about anything in actual, although it alone certainly isn't weather suitable for planning a VFR arrival.
Irrespective of the actual at Shoreham, someone planning a VFR arrival there on that TAF would have been prepared to draw attention. A good reason to unload somewhere else first?
As for the police activity around airfields, they DO watch a lot of stuff. According to them, there are about 80 fixed wing landing sites of various sorts just in Sussex and Kent.
Last edited by IO540; 3rd Sep 2005 at 11:30.
"I can't help feel that fining them on top of a 14 year prison sentence seems like just adding insult to injury!"
Well, I dont'! I think it's far too lenient. They should be boiled alive in a vat of their own excrement until dead instead of cluttering up the prison system.
Well, I dont'! I think it's far too lenient. They should be boiled alive in a vat of their own excrement until dead instead of cluttering up the prison system.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Sounds a bit OTT BEagle ... until, that is, you do the sums, and work out how many burglaries per night it takes to keep just one drug dealer in business. And I don't just mean the type of burglary that happens when you're out, and you come home to find everything smashed and strewn around and **** on the carpet, some of these burglaries involve smashing down the door when the kids are asleep in the house.
And normally when doing these sums one is assuming that the dealer is just buying a new BMW every few months, presumably it takes even more burglaries if they've got a plane as well.
And normally when doing these sums one is assuming that the dealer is just buying a new BMW every few months, presumably it takes even more burglaries if they've got a plane as well.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However, do customs actually check anything?
Commonplace in North America
It's been happening quite a while on the Yank's southern border and Canada gets its share of unusual arrivals.
US Customs has quite the airforce of seized a/c -- the ones that did not crash
Other seized a/c are auctioned off. Such a/c are not recommended for cross-border travel as the sniffer dogs will flag your "new" a/c for a thorough inspection along with everybody and everything aboard
US Customs has quite the airforce of seized a/c -- the ones that did not crash
Other seized a/c are auctioned off. Such a/c are not recommended for cross-border travel as the sniffer dogs will flag your "new" a/c for a thorough inspection along with everybody and everything aboard
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW411
The report PDF I've just read is at
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...HIL%208-05.pdf
and it doesn't say anything about Shoreham actual. It contains actuals for Ostend, Manston and Biggin, plus the Shoreham TAF you quoted.
Nevertheless, they appear convinced he had a pretty good reason (other than weather) to land some other place than Shoreham, first.
There is no need to dig out the record of the Shoreham weather on the day for it is clearly shown in the accident report. I presume therefore that you haven't read it?
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...HIL%208-05.pdf
and it doesn't say anything about Shoreham actual. It contains actuals for Ostend, Manston and Biggin, plus the Shoreham TAF you quoted.
Nevertheless, they appear convinced he had a pretty good reason (other than weather) to land some other place than Shoreham, first.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I were a smuggling drugs, the last thing I'd do would be to do it using a light aircraft.
The UK is such a relatively small place, that anything out of the ordinary is usually noticed by someone somewhere, and invariably Mr Plod gets to know pretty quickly.
Addtionally, the intelligence network in this particular area is a lot better informed than the vast majority of people think or realise, and whilst, due the nature of getting evidence, it may take time to get results, customs and the plod are very successful.
Take a moment to reflect upon whom, at your particular airfield, you know to be a bit of a wide boy or have shady connections, I can think of several people I've encountered over the years who fit this scenario. Well, if you know or think that about them, so will someone else, as invariably, will the police.
The UK is such a relatively small place, that anything out of the ordinary is usually noticed by someone somewhere, and invariably Mr Plod gets to know pretty quickly.
Addtionally, the intelligence network in this particular area is a lot better informed than the vast majority of people think or realise, and whilst, due the nature of getting evidence, it may take time to get results, customs and the plod are very successful.
Take a moment to reflect upon whom, at your particular airfield, you know to be a bit of a wide boy or have shady connections, I can think of several people I've encountered over the years who fit this scenario. Well, if you know or think that about them, so will someone else, as invariably, will the police.
IO540:
Whilst METARS are nice to have, they are (by definition) history.
For flight planning purposes it's the TAFs we should be looking at. The accident happened at about 1046Z. He therefore could not possibly have got to Shoreham in a PA28 before 1115Z which puts him into the:
BCMG 1113 7000 NSW.
Now 7km with No Significant Weather should have been well within his capabilities I would have thought.
The AAIB obviously considered the Shoreham METARS to have been irrelevent to the investigation.
They were obviously also irrelevent to the subject pilot for there is no record of him having asked for the Shoreham actuals and he was too far away and too low to pick up the ATIS.
Whilst METARS are nice to have, they are (by definition) history.
For flight planning purposes it's the TAFs we should be looking at. The accident happened at about 1046Z. He therefore could not possibly have got to Shoreham in a PA28 before 1115Z which puts him into the:
BCMG 1113 7000 NSW.
Now 7km with No Significant Weather should have been well within his capabilities I would have thought.
The AAIB obviously considered the Shoreham METARS to have been irrelevent to the investigation.
They were obviously also irrelevent to the subject pilot for there is no record of him having asked for the Shoreham actuals and he was too far away and too low to pick up the ATIS.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For flight planning purposes it's the TAFs we should be looking at.
It is a bit alarming to read that some of the righteous folks on here seem to think that it is 'a good thing' that someone pays for his transgression of the law with the death penalty whereas under the laws of this country a fine and custodial sentence would have been applied were the assumptions made on here correct and this case would have been heard in court.
A METAR is a statement as to what the weather actually WAS at a given time. Therefore, by definition, if you go flying 30 seconds later you are talking history.
Now a TAF is what is likely to happen including the conditionals like PROB30/TEMPO/BCMG etc etc.
Now I fly for a living and I also fly for fun. At work there is seldom if ever going to be a time when I am NOT going to depart. Therefore, if I am flying from Los Angeles to London I am not very interested in the METAR but I am VERY interested in the TAF in something like 10 hours time. I cannot wait until the METAR equals the TAF otherwise I would never depart.
In the case in point, I suspect that our man had planned to get airborne so that he did whatever he wanted to do and then arrived during the early part of the 7000 NSW bit.
Now if you are just flying for fun and you don't have a schedule to meet then you can afford yourself the luxury of waiting until the skies are clear. On the other hand, you might never get off the ground!
Now a TAF is what is likely to happen including the conditionals like PROB30/TEMPO/BCMG etc etc.
Now I fly for a living and I also fly for fun. At work there is seldom if ever going to be a time when I am NOT going to depart. Therefore, if I am flying from Los Angeles to London I am not very interested in the METAR but I am VERY interested in the TAF in something like 10 hours time. I cannot wait until the METAR equals the TAF otherwise I would never depart.
In the case in point, I suspect that our man had planned to get airborne so that he did whatever he wanted to do and then arrived during the early part of the 7000 NSW bit.
Now if you are just flying for fun and you don't have a schedule to meet then you can afford yourself the luxury of waiting until the skies are clear. On the other hand, you might never get off the ground!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW,
I am not exactly sure what point you are trying to make.
The guy succumbed due to CFIT as the actual weather (as generally accepted is reported in METARS) was not as good as the TAF was suggesting.
I am not exactly sure what point you are trying to make.
The guy succumbed due to CFIT as the actual weather (as generally accepted is reported in METARS) was not as good as the TAF was suggesting.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JW411
We must have our wires completely crossed here.
Destination (and en-route) METARs are very valuable in the GA context. Not in your airliner context because your flight takes you say 10 hours and also with Cat 3 or whatever capability, plus anti-ice, plus the TAS to raise the airframe to a temperature equivalent to 10k-20k feet below where you really are, etc, there are very few times that weather will stop you. Whereas most PPL-level GA flights cover very short distances (typically under 100 miles) and the PPL license constraints (not to mention the constraints of the aircraft typically involved) are so severe that even a slight difference between a METAR and a TAF is enough to make the arrival (and probably the flight too) technically illegal.
Often the actual is a lot worse than the TAF for the relevant period. So, would you depart on a 1hr flight when the METAR says OVC005 when the TAF says SCT015 so clearly the met office got it wrong?
I remember once asking an instructor: if you were doing an NDB approach, and you had a GPS also, and the ADF was telling you that you will live and the GPS was telling you that you will die, which would you trust? His reply was that he would trust the ADF. He was a gold plated JAA ATPL, in case anyone wonders. A complete moron IMHO.
None of the above is intended to apply to the AAIB report. To me, it looks like the man was most keen to make a covert landing at the farm strip to unload the cargo and then proceed to Shoreham for the official landing. I doubt that weather considerations came into his decision making very much and if they did then he got it wrong. Lots of pilots get it wrong; I hear the resulting conversations on the radio fairly frequently.
We must have our wires completely crossed here.
Destination (and en-route) METARs are very valuable in the GA context. Not in your airliner context because your flight takes you say 10 hours and also with Cat 3 or whatever capability, plus anti-ice, plus the TAS to raise the airframe to a temperature equivalent to 10k-20k feet below where you really are, etc, there are very few times that weather will stop you. Whereas most PPL-level GA flights cover very short distances (typically under 100 miles) and the PPL license constraints (not to mention the constraints of the aircraft typically involved) are so severe that even a slight difference between a METAR and a TAF is enough to make the arrival (and probably the flight too) technically illegal.
Often the actual is a lot worse than the TAF for the relevant period. So, would you depart on a 1hr flight when the METAR says OVC005 when the TAF says SCT015 so clearly the met office got it wrong?
I remember once asking an instructor: if you were doing an NDB approach, and you had a GPS also, and the ADF was telling you that you will live and the GPS was telling you that you will die, which would you trust? His reply was that he would trust the ADF. He was a gold plated JAA ATPL, in case anyone wonders. A complete moron IMHO.
None of the above is intended to apply to the AAIB report. To me, it looks like the man was most keen to make a covert landing at the farm strip to unload the cargo and then proceed to Shoreham for the official landing. I doubt that weather considerations came into his decision making very much and if they did then he got it wrong. Lots of pilots get it wrong; I hear the resulting conversations on the radio fairly frequently.
Mess Your Passage
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Temporarily Unaware......
Age: 25
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gengis.
From the report it seems they also can tap your phone........
Un related. According to the report this chap appears to have acted in a dodgy manner throughout his whole trip.
After a weekend personally operating in a health and safety hell airport with hiz viz vests being a major concern of theirs, why is no one concerned when a visiting pilot omits to log his details?
Forget condeming him for bringing a bit of rope in. Let people learn that its not a good idea from this purely as his cumulative actions have caused his demise.
Stay SAFE
F.
AAIB (a totally separate organisation) love it, and are masters of the art of telling where you've been from the remnants of a smashed handheld GPS.
Un related. According to the report this chap appears to have acted in a dodgy manner throughout his whole trip.
After a weekend personally operating in a health and safety hell airport with hiz viz vests being a major concern of theirs, why is no one concerned when a visiting pilot omits to log his details?
Forget condeming him for bringing a bit of rope in. Let people learn that its not a good idea from this purely as his cumulative actions have caused his demise.
Stay SAFE
F.
Last edited by Flash0710; 5th Sep 2005 at 00:39.
Guest
Posts: n/a
IO540,
Just a wee tangent to keep us entertained 
I guess the answer very much depends, does it not? You can't really compare a belt and braces 430/530 type GPS system to a cheap and cheerful Skymap. I don't think it is fair to say that an NDB would be less accurate than the aforementioned Skymap, certainly not in my , admittedly limited, experience with the Skymap GPS! Another problem with GPS is there is no way of quantifying the error, if it is wrong there is nothing to suggest that it could be wrong(unless you are transported to a completely different part of the country/world). Probably a tennuous argument, but you can pretty much guess when the ADF maybe telling porkies.
Prehaps I've been tainted by my experience of GPS telling me where I knew I was not in my formative hours
if you were doing an NDB approach, and you had a GPS also, and the ADF was telling you that you will live and the GPS was telling you that you will die, which would you trust?
I guess the answer very much depends, does it not? You can't really compare a belt and braces 430/530 type GPS system to a cheap and cheerful Skymap. I don't think it is fair to say that an NDB would be less accurate than the aforementioned Skymap, certainly not in my , admittedly limited, experience with the Skymap GPS! Another problem with GPS is there is no way of quantifying the error, if it is wrong there is nothing to suggest that it could be wrong(unless you are transported to a completely different part of the country/world). Probably a tennuous argument, but you can pretty much guess when the ADF maybe telling porkies.Prehaps I've been tainted by my experience of GPS telling me where I knew I was not in my formative hours
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HWD
I always like to keep you entertained
Any GPS, even the cheapest one from a camp shop, will be FAR more accurate than an NDB, 99.99% of the time.
As for the other 0.01%, as Clint Eastwood said, "do you feel lucky"? A better policy, I would say, is to divert somewhere where there is a proper approach with built-in fault detection i.e. an ILS.
I have a Skymap 2 also. Used it for primary nav for the 50hrs post-PPL before I got into a plane with a panel mounted KLN94/KMD550. The only time I had a problem with it was about 20 secs somewhere in Kent; probably got zapped by something. It is an excellent product, despite being 1970s technology and with Jeppesen data which really needs a much higher res colour display. I lost the KLN94 once too, for a minute or two, almost certainly due to GPS jamming.
IMHO you are technically wrong about the likehood of spotting a failure. With a GPS, it's true that it could show you way off and because one is used to it being right one might not spot that. But any GPS of modern design will not do that without putting up a message to say it isn't receiving a proper signal. (I always found the Skymap 2 to do that, too).
Whereas an ADF gives no indication whatever that it is receiving a good signal, bad signal, any signal at all, a signal from an NDB or some thunderstorm 30 miles away, or is even switched on... I routinely fly one IAP on which the ADF error varies from zero to 30 degrees between 6D and 3D. It's a total joke really.
NDBs are accurate, probably as accurate as a VOR if on the cardinal headings, over large areas of flat country, if there is no weather about.
(I design electronics for a living)
I always like to keep you entertained
Any GPS, even the cheapest one from a camp shop, will be FAR more accurate than an NDB, 99.99% of the time.
As for the other 0.01%, as Clint Eastwood said, "do you feel lucky"? A better policy, I would say, is to divert somewhere where there is a proper approach with built-in fault detection i.e. an ILS.
I have a Skymap 2 also. Used it for primary nav for the 50hrs post-PPL before I got into a plane with a panel mounted KLN94/KMD550. The only time I had a problem with it was about 20 secs somewhere in Kent; probably got zapped by something. It is an excellent product, despite being 1970s technology and with Jeppesen data which really needs a much higher res colour display. I lost the KLN94 once too, for a minute or two, almost certainly due to GPS jamming.
IMHO you are technically wrong about the likehood of spotting a failure. With a GPS, it's true that it could show you way off and because one is used to it being right one might not spot that. But any GPS of modern design will not do that without putting up a message to say it isn't receiving a proper signal. (I always found the Skymap 2 to do that, too).
Whereas an ADF gives no indication whatever that it is receiving a good signal, bad signal, any signal at all, a signal from an NDB or some thunderstorm 30 miles away, or is even switched on... I routinely fly one IAP on which the ADF error varies from zero to 30 degrees between 6D and 3D. It's a total joke really.
NDBs are accurate, probably as accurate as a VOR if on the cardinal headings, over large areas of flat country, if there is no weather about.
(I design electronics for a living)