White Waltham fuel rip-off
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Caernarfon charged me 2 weeks ago £1.15/Ltr PLUS VAT and a landing fee of £17 (PA34) never again I will tank up with return fuel and not top up just in case it becomes IFR on the return.
Mess Your Passage
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Fuel is not just a problem at EGLM In pilot this month they are reporting that the Alderney fly in is cancelled due to problems with the supply.
Remember this?
Not quite a cost issue but annoying to say the least its a great place to go to.
There is a crisp five pound note to the first person that also creates a diesil M14p
Have a slim feeling my money is safe though......
Its pricier everywhere now and more charges seem to be on the way so stop moaning about one place and work towards something to stop these Airlines fisting us GA people......
Oh and do buy the dongler a beer aswell........
F.
Remember this?
Not quite a cost issue but annoying to say the least its a great place to go to.
There is a crisp five pound note to the first person that also creates a diesil M14p
Have a slim feeling my money is safe though......
Its pricier everywhere now and more charges seem to be on the way so stop moaning about one place and work towards something to stop these Airlines fisting us GA people......
Oh and do buy the dongler a beer aswell........
F.
Last edited by Flash0710; 5th Jul 2005 at 00:32.
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Enjoy the 'cheap' fuel while you can. BA are currently hedging their 2006 fuel at the equivalent of $78/barrel. Expect $100/barrel by mid 2006. Flying is going to become rather expensive.
The traders on NYMEX don't see it that way. Crude oil futures for 2006 are around $61 per barrel. 2007, 8, 9, 10, 11 are around $56 per barrel. BA are probably just hedging a portion of their fuel costs 'just in case' and in any event will be passing on this extra cost to their punters with their sneaky fuel surcharge (which should disappear if BA are correct - yeh right). I'd be more interested in what Ryanair are doing, they have good form on hedging their fuel bills, BA don't. The markets are currently saying fuel will stay high for the forseeable future, but not that much higher than today, and certainly not $100 per barrel.
The traders on NYMEX don't see it that way. Crude oil futures for 2006 are around $61 per barrel. 2007, 8, 9, 10, 11 are around $56 per barrel. BA are probably just hedging a portion of their fuel costs 'just in case' and in any event will be passing on this extra cost to their punters with their sneaky fuel surcharge (which should disappear if BA are correct - yeh right). I'd be more interested in what Ryanair are doing, they have good form on hedging their fuel bills, BA don't. The markets are currently saying fuel will stay high for the forseeable future, but not that much higher than today, and certainly not $100 per barrel.
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eharding asked
To which the answer is "because the fuel tanks at Wycombe got contaminted by a bad batch of fuel". Apparantly a tanker (ship not road) load which came into Southampton was found to be contaminated (can't remember exactly what with) AFTER it had been delivered to Wycombe and one or two other places. The result was that on a few weekends there was no fuel at Wycombe until the fuel supply company got the tanks cleaned out, so we were all popping over to WW to refuel.
Brooklands
Besides, if WLAC fuel is so expensive, why do Booker seem to have been organising regular "Refuel at Waltham" weekends recently
Brooklands
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Enjoy the 'cheap' fuel while you can. BA are currently hedging their 2006 fuel at the equivalent of $78/barrel.
The traders on NYMEX don't see it that way. Crude oil futures for 2006 are around $61 per barrel. 2007, 8, 9, 10, 11 are around $56 per barrel.
Last edited by Re-Heat; 5th Jul 2005 at 18:33.
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Airlines can't directly hedge Jet Fuel prices since there is no sufficiently liquid market of exchange traded Jet Fuel Futures or Options.
As a result, Jet Fuel is hedged using either OTC (Over the Counter) Derivative products in conjunction with Investment Banks, or more commonly by hedging on closely correlated exchange-traded alternatives such as Heating Oil.
This exposes the airlines to so-called "basis risk"- the risk that the proxy does not move in the same manner as the thing being hedged. However, experience has shown that Heating Oil does act as a remarkably good proxy for Jet A.
Either way, the futures markets continue to indicate a gentle but sustained rise in Jet A prices.
2D
As a result, Jet Fuel is hedged using either OTC (Over the Counter) Derivative products in conjunction with Investment Banks, or more commonly by hedging on closely correlated exchange-traded alternatives such as Heating Oil.
This exposes the airlines to so-called "basis risk"- the risk that the proxy does not move in the same manner as the thing being hedged. However, experience has shown that Heating Oil does act as a remarkably good proxy for Jet A.
Either way, the futures markets continue to indicate a gentle but sustained rise in Jet A prices.
2D
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2Donkeys/Re-Heat
You are both correct, heating oil is what the airlines use. but..... Captain Airclues used the terms 'equivalent to $78/barrel' and 'expect $100/barrel' so it might be easier to continue in that vein ............. More relevent to this forum is that most of us don't directly purchase Jet A.
You are both correct, heating oil is what the airlines use. but..... Captain Airclues used the terms 'equivalent to $78/barrel' and 'expect $100/barrel' so it might be easier to continue in that vein ............. More relevent to this forum is that most of us don't directly purchase Jet A.
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You are both correct, heating oil is what the airlines use.
More relevent to this forum is that most of us don't directly purchase Jet A.
2D
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The volume of AVGAS produced and consumed globally is absolutely tiny, despite it forming the backbone of our hobby.
As a result, there are very few if any organisations who use significant quantities of AVGAS, and are sophisticated enough to be able to hedge it. When we talk about hedging AVGAS exposure, we are strictly in the realms of the theoretical.
The basis of any hedge where there is no traded market in the product under risk is to find another product which moves broadly in line with the thing you wish to hedge. You are not looking for something which has the same absolute price, only something which moves proportionately the same as your primary product in a strongly correlated fasion.
The primary price consituent of AVGAS is crude oil, and the futures and options markets for Crude are vibrant and easily traded. That makes them a good hedge.
MOGAS prices are subject to all sorts of political interference making them rather less attractive as a hedge. Accordingly the futures and options markets for MOGAS are relatively small. This brings its own problems. As anybody has ever tried to buy or sell something on an illiquid market will tell you, the spread between purchase and sale price will be wide. This constitutes a risk in itself.
2D
As a result, there are very few if any organisations who use significant quantities of AVGAS, and are sophisticated enough to be able to hedge it. When we talk about hedging AVGAS exposure, we are strictly in the realms of the theoretical.
The basis of any hedge where there is no traded market in the product under risk is to find another product which moves broadly in line with the thing you wish to hedge. You are not looking for something which has the same absolute price, only something which moves proportionately the same as your primary product in a strongly correlated fasion.
The primary price consituent of AVGAS is crude oil, and the futures and options markets for Crude are vibrant and easily traded. That makes them a good hedge.
MOGAS prices are subject to all sorts of political interference making them rather less attractive as a hedge. Accordingly the futures and options markets for MOGAS are relatively small. This brings its own problems. As anybody has ever tried to buy or sell something on an illiquid market will tell you, the spread between purchase and sale price will be wide. This constitutes a risk in itself.
2D
As 2D's says, the price variation of Avgas broadly follows that of crudes. Somebody mentioned WTI earlier, that is West Texas Intermediate, relevant to Avgas prices in the US, but not (directly) to the UK Avgas market. Ours follows BFO (Brent,Forties,Oseberg) much more closely.
The price of all distillates (eg Gasoil Jet etc) is very high due to a global shortage of refining capacity, and rapidly increasing demand in China and India. The increased refining runs to cope with the demand for distillates has produced a slight surplus of gasolines, and accordingly distillates are now more expensive than gasolines.
Latest prices cif Rotterdam $/ton:
Gasoline 95 RON 551.25
Jet 585.06
Diesel 557.63
The price of all distillates (eg Gasoil Jet etc) is very high due to a global shortage of refining capacity, and rapidly increasing demand in China and India. The increased refining runs to cope with the demand for distillates has produced a slight surplus of gasolines, and accordingly distillates are now more expensive than gasolines.
Latest prices cif Rotterdam $/ton:
Gasoline 95 RON 551.25
Jet 585.06
Diesel 557.63
Why do it if it's not fun?
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And at Cardiff the other week I was charged £1.18 PLUS VAT. That is, unless my memory is playing up.
To tell the truth, I was so shocked at the extortionate total charge that my memory may be playing up.... because as well as a rather high fuel charge, they had also quoted me landing and handling fees excluding VAT, and neglected to tell me about the passenger surcharge fee and the insurance fee. I'm sure when I phoned up and asked them how much it would cost me, I don't remember telling them that I was only interested in half of the fees that they were going to charge me, nor that I wanted the price excluding VAT.......
White Waltham has never been the cheapest place around, but it's always had an atmosphere which makes up for it. It seems to me that the price increases around the country are higher than WW's, bringing WW's prices slightly more in line with the average than they were before?
FFF
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To tell the truth, I was so shocked at the extortionate total charge that my memory may be playing up.... because as well as a rather high fuel charge, they had also quoted me landing and handling fees excluding VAT, and neglected to tell me about the passenger surcharge fee and the insurance fee. I'm sure when I phoned up and asked them how much it would cost me, I don't remember telling them that I was only interested in half of the fees that they were going to charge me, nor that I wanted the price excluding VAT.......
White Waltham has never been the cheapest place around, but it's always had an atmosphere which makes up for it. It seems to me that the price increases around the country are higher than WW's, bringing WW's prices slightly more in line with the average than they were before?
FFF
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Why do it if it's not fun?
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Ah - advice greatly received, WR, albeit too late!
But, out of interest, what landing fee would the club charge for a twin weighing over 2 tonnes? Wish I'd kept my receipt from signature now for comparison, but I think landing+handling was £45+VAT. The total bill, including 100 litres of fuel, and passenger surcharges for 4 people, came to over £260!!!
FFF
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But, out of interest, what landing fee would the club charge for a twin weighing over 2 tonnes? Wish I'd kept my receipt from signature now for comparison, but I think landing+handling was £45+VAT. The total bill, including 100 litres of fuel, and passenger surcharges for 4 people, came to over £260!!!
FFF
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