Flying N-Reg in UK - Licence reqs
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Flying N-Reg in UK - Licence reqs
Can anyone tell me what the requirements are for flying an N-reg aircraft in the UK or Europe.
I currently have a JAA PPL with IMC/Night. I understand the limitations on IMC in UK airspace only.
Do I need an FAA licence as well?
I read something in Flyer last year which suggested that I could not fly in the UK with my IMC rating in an N-reg aircraft?
Anything else I should know?
Comments or advice would be really useful.
Thanks
I currently have a JAA PPL with IMC/Night. I understand the limitations on IMC in UK airspace only.
Do I need an FAA licence as well?
I read something in Flyer last year which suggested that I could not fly in the UK with my IMC rating in an N-reg aircraft?
Anything else I should know?
Comments or advice would be really useful.
Thanks
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As regards LICENSES:
In the UK, you can fly an N on a UK PPL or a FAA PPL.
Outside the UK, you need an FAA PPL.
There are bound to be additional concessions to the above (e.g. you may be able to fly an N reg plane in Zambia or whatever, on a Zambian PPL) but an FAA PPL is really a must to be sure. You can get a standalone FAA PPL, or a "piggyback" FAA PPL.
As regards RATINGS:
The IFR privileges of your IMCR are limited (by the ANO) to the UK and certain other UK territories. They are not limited as to aircraft reg but the FAA requires an N reg plane flown under IFR to have an "instrument rated" pilot, so, for the UK, validity of the IMCR in an N reg is a grey area.
The FAA IR gives you worldwide IFR privileges in an N reg and the FAA IR is why most people go N.
You can attach an FAA IR to a piggyback FAA PPL.
In the UK, you can fly an N on a UK PPL or a FAA PPL.
Outside the UK, you need an FAA PPL.
There are bound to be additional concessions to the above (e.g. you may be able to fly an N reg plane in Zambia or whatever, on a Zambian PPL) but an FAA PPL is really a must to be sure. You can get a standalone FAA PPL, or a "piggyback" FAA PPL.
As regards RATINGS:
The IFR privileges of your IMCR are limited (by the ANO) to the UK and certain other UK territories. They are not limited as to aircraft reg but the FAA requires an N reg plane flown under IFR to have an "instrument rated" pilot, so, for the UK, validity of the IMCR in an N reg is a grey area.
The FAA IR gives you worldwide IFR privileges in an N reg and the FAA IR is why most people go N.
You can attach an FAA IR to a piggyback FAA PPL.
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I wrote the FLYER article.
Generally:
To Fly an N-reg aircraft, you need to have an FAA licence, or a licence issued in the country in which you intend to fly the aircraft. For these purposes, your JAA licence is deemed to be issued by a specific country, and is not valid across all JAA nations.
With a UK-issued JAA licence, you may therefore fly the N-reg aircraft only in UK airspace. Once outside that, you will need an FAA licence.
On the IMC point, there is some disagreement. The authority for determining who may fly an aircraft and the conditions they may fly it under rests with the country in which it is registered. For the US, this means consulting the FARs. FAR 61.3(e) tells us that in order to fly an aircraft of American Registry under IFR (regardless of the weather conditions), the pilot must hold a valid "instrument rating". Most interpret this to exclude the possibility for flying IFR with an IMC rating, since the IMC rating is not an ICAO recognised qualification, let alone an instrument rating.
However, this rule is widely ignored, and absent any mechanism to police it, those doing the ignoring get away with it.
2D
Generally:
To Fly an N-reg aircraft, you need to have an FAA licence, or a licence issued in the country in which you intend to fly the aircraft. For these purposes, your JAA licence is deemed to be issued by a specific country, and is not valid across all JAA nations.
With a UK-issued JAA licence, you may therefore fly the N-reg aircraft only in UK airspace. Once outside that, you will need an FAA licence.
On the IMC point, there is some disagreement. The authority for determining who may fly an aircraft and the conditions they may fly it under rests with the country in which it is registered. For the US, this means consulting the FARs. FAR 61.3(e) tells us that in order to fly an aircraft of American Registry under IFR (regardless of the weather conditions), the pilot must hold a valid "instrument rating". Most interpret this to exclude the possibility for flying IFR with an IMC rating, since the IMC rating is not an ICAO recognised qualification, let alone an instrument rating.
However, this rule is widely ignored, and absent any mechanism to police it, those doing the ignoring get away with it.
2D
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Mark - I believe that you've already had the answer you needed.
In general terms (ignoring the IMC Rating element), the perceived wisdom appears to be '2 out of 3' reqts needed to be met:
UK Registered Aircraft
UK / JAA Licensed Pilot
UK Airspace
Thus, you're OK flying N Reg in UK Airspace with a UK / JAA PPL, OR flying a G Reg in Continental European Airspace with a UK PPL, etc. What is NOT OK is flying in an N Reg in Continental European Airspace with a UK PPL AIUI.
For the latter example, you'd need an FAA PPL
I believe that the IMC questions have already been answered.
See you around the bazaars!
In general terms (ignoring the IMC Rating element), the perceived wisdom appears to be '2 out of 3' reqts needed to be met:
UK Registered Aircraft
UK / JAA Licensed Pilot
UK Airspace
Thus, you're OK flying N Reg in UK Airspace with a UK / JAA PPL, OR flying a G Reg in Continental European Airspace with a UK PPL, etc. What is NOT OK is flying in an N Reg in Continental European Airspace with a UK PPL AIUI.
For the latter example, you'd need an FAA PPL
I believe that the IMC questions have already been answered.
See you around the bazaars!
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2 Donkeys
CB slinks off quietly into the background, collecting his coat as he goes!!
SORRY! It was just being used as an example for TZ to get an idea of flying N Reg to Europe (and I believe the answer to be that it can't be done with a UK PPL).
So the next time a question arises about whether a particular combination of licences, registrations and countries, keep an eye open for people quoting the Rule. Remember to laugh out loud, point at them, and then treat them with contempt
SORRY! It was just being used as an example for TZ to get an idea of flying N Reg to Europe (and I believe the answer to be that it can't be done with a UK PPL).
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Thanks one and all.
So assuming I am initially intending to fly N-reg in UK and Europe, I need to get an FAA PPL on the basis of my JAA PPL.
Can I do this in the UK and what does it involve - do I then need to maintain CoE etc for the FAA version as well as the JAA version or does one cover both.
Appreciate that I can find this out with a bit more digging but also appreciate the advice been given and hope I can get a bit more.
Background to all this - currently thinking about a share in an N-reg aircraft in the UK and want to be sure what I need to do to fly this legally in the UK and Europe and the consequences of this.
Thanks
TZ
So assuming I am initially intending to fly N-reg in UK and Europe, I need to get an FAA PPL on the basis of my JAA PPL.
Can I do this in the UK and what does it involve - do I then need to maintain CoE etc for the FAA version as well as the JAA version or does one cover both.
Appreciate that I can find this out with a bit more digging but also appreciate the advice been given and hope I can get a bit more.
Background to all this - currently thinking about a share in an N-reg aircraft in the UK and want to be sure what I need to do to fly this legally in the UK and Europe and the consequences of this.
Thanks
TZ
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Sadly, getting an FAA licence issued on the back of your JAA licence will require a trip to the states.
In brief, the process is:
1) Pay £16 to the CAA for them to agree to talk to the FAA
2) Advise the FAA in Oklahoma City that you want an FAA ticket issued on the back of your JAR number
3) The FAA will now talk to the CAA and confirm your licence details
4) You will receive a note back from the FAA telling you that all is OK and asking you to nominate an FAA local office (FSDO) in the US at which you will appear to pick up your licence
5) You contact the FSDO concerned (they are all in the US), and turn up on the appointed date to receive your licence. No charge.
6) Before it can be used, you need an FAA Bienniel Flight Review. This is conducted with any US CFI or CFII and takes a couple of hours. A minimum of one on the ground and one in the air. The format varies from exam to normal-ish lesson.
That should just about do it.
2D
In brief, the process is:
1) Pay £16 to the CAA for them to agree to talk to the FAA
2) Advise the FAA in Oklahoma City that you want an FAA ticket issued on the back of your JAR number
3) The FAA will now talk to the CAA and confirm your licence details
4) You will receive a note back from the FAA telling you that all is OK and asking you to nominate an FAA local office (FSDO) in the US at which you will appear to pick up your licence
5) You contact the FSDO concerned (they are all in the US), and turn up on the appointed date to receive your licence. No charge.
6) Before it can be used, you need an FAA Bienniel Flight Review. This is conducted with any US CFI or CFII and takes a couple of hours. A minimum of one on the ground and one in the air. The format varies from exam to normal-ish lesson.
That should just about do it.
2D
