Balloon crash
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Balloon crash
Link below to a Balloon crash on Sunday in Kent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4086970.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4086970.stm
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Yikes, I'm planning to do that in NZ when I go there. 
See where there was another episode a good while back where a totally inexperienced pax was left in the basket on her own, I think the balloon took off cause of a freak gust of wind with only her onboard, can't be sure. She had to land the balloon herself which she managed to do successfully.
Still I suppose 100's, if not 1,000's of trips pass uneventfully.
See where there was another episode a good while back where a totally inexperienced pax was left in the basket on her own, I think the balloon took off cause of a freak gust of wind with only her onboard, can't be sure. She had to land the balloon herself which she managed to do successfully.
Still I suppose 100's, if not 1,000's of trips pass uneventfully.
Worth commenting that this was a pretty nasty crash - but still nobody was killed.
In terms of fatal accidents, hot air ballooning these days seems to be about as safe as it gets - at least in the public transport category.
G
In terms of fatal accidents, hot air ballooning these days seems to be about as safe as it gets - at least in the public transport category.
G
Qte
In terms of fatal accidents, hot air ballooning these days seems to be about as safe as it gets - at least in the public transport category.
End Qte
We would be joking, of course......
Which statistical basis are we using for this statement, mate?
Absolute number of fatalities? Number or fatalities per flight? Number of fatalities per RPM? Number of passengers per APM?
Based on NTSB data for 1996 and 1997, hot air ballooning incidents occur 4 times more frequently per hour of operation than in General Aviation. And General Aviation certainly isn't "about as safe as it gets"...
In terms of fatal accidents, hot air ballooning these days seems to be about as safe as it gets - at least in the public transport category.
End Qte
We would be joking, of course......
Which statistical basis are we using for this statement, mate?
Absolute number of fatalities? Number or fatalities per flight? Number of fatalities per RPM? Number of passengers per APM?
Based on NTSB data for 1996 and 1997, hot air ballooning incidents occur 4 times more frequently per hour of operation than in General Aviation. And General Aviation certainly isn't "about as safe as it gets"...
My statistical basis is CAP 701, which is the UK survey of air accident statistics between 1990-1999, during which period there were total fatalities:-
Balloons: 1
Gliders: 42
Gyroplanes: 7
Microlights: 26
Non public transport helicopters <5,700kg: 30 crew, 19 pax.
Non public transport aeroplanes <5,700kg: 134 crew, 65 pax.
It does say in there that although hours for everything else are recorded (allowing a breakdown per flying hour) hours aren't recorded for balloons - making statistical comparison difficult. BUT, 1 fatality over 10 years, in a country with about 1900 registered balloons strikes me as pretty damned safe.
I don't have stats for any other country, but if the the US stats are as bad as you say, they perhaps aught to be looking at how things are done over here?
G
Balloons: 1
Gliders: 42
Gyroplanes: 7
Microlights: 26
Non public transport helicopters <5,700kg: 30 crew, 19 pax.
Non public transport aeroplanes <5,700kg: 134 crew, 65 pax.
It does say in there that although hours for everything else are recorded (allowing a breakdown per flying hour) hours aren't recorded for balloons - making statistical comparison difficult. BUT, 1 fatality over 10 years, in a country with about 1900 registered balloons strikes me as pretty damned safe.
I don't have stats for any other country, but if the the US stats are as bad as you say, they perhaps aught to be looking at how things are done over here?
G
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What's New Zealand's safety record like then, does anyone know?
I thought it would be a good country for my first hot air balloon ride because of the scenery, the strength of the euro against the NZ dollar & above all cause I'm on hols & want to try loads of new, exciting experiences.
But not that exciting! 
I thought it would be a good country for my first hot air balloon ride because of the scenery, the strength of the euro against the NZ dollar & above all cause I'm on hols & want to try loads of new, exciting experiences.
hot air ballooning incidents occur 4 times more frequently per hour of operation than in General Aviation.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Just an observation from the posts on this thread, since I don't have any of the source documents to hand. However.....
Genghis' statement that ballooning is "about as safe as it gets" is based on fatal accidents. RevMan's figures from the NTSB appear (correct me if I'm wrong, RevMan) to be based on accidents, not specifically on fatal accidents.
I don't know a whole lot about ballooning, but it doesn't strike me as a sport which involves very high speeds. Therefore, is it plausible that it does have a high accident rate, both in the US and the UK, but that the low speeds involved mean that the vast majority of these accidents are not fatal?
FFF
-----------------
Genghis' statement that ballooning is "about as safe as it gets" is based on fatal accidents. RevMan's figures from the NTSB appear (correct me if I'm wrong, RevMan) to be based on accidents, not specifically on fatal accidents.
I don't know a whole lot about ballooning, but it doesn't strike me as a sport which involves very high speeds. Therefore, is it plausible that it does have a high accident rate, both in the US and the UK, but that the low speeds involved mean that the vast majority of these accidents are not fatal?
FFF
-----------------
Going back to my (UK) source document again, balloons in the UK over that 10 year period suffered 32 reportable accidents, causing 1 fatality and 20 serious injuries. That's over a fleet of about 1900 aircraft. So, that's 3% of balloon accidents causing a fatality.
Non transport fixed wing GA suffered 1963 reportable accidents, during 19% of which included injuries (both major and minor), and 6% included fatalities.
So, if you have an accident in a balloon, the odds are over three times higher of somebody being injured than in a FW, but the odds of someone actually being killed about half.
G
Non transport fixed wing GA suffered 1963 reportable accidents, during 19% of which included injuries (both major and minor), and 6% included fatalities.
So, if you have an accident in a balloon, the odds are over three times higher of somebody being injured than in a FW, but the odds of someone actually being killed about half.
G
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Oh that's really great! 
So I've a good chance of ending up paralysed or permanently, seriously injured but alive to cope with it, is that it?
Hell, you can't wrap yourself in cotton wool either.
So I've a good chance of ending up paralysed or permanently, seriously injured but alive to cope with it, is that it?
Hell, you can't wrap yourself in cotton wool either.
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I think the UK government stats are pretty good. Despite a total reliance on hot air for support, the present government is still floating along for a third flight (but hopefully the chief pilot will be out of a job soon). 
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Perhaps if the CAA get GA flight time to that of ballooning then accident rates will decrease.
How often do you see a balloon.
Having said that how often do you see a light aircraft ?.
How often do you see a balloon.
Having said that how often do you see a light aircraft ?.
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Omaha
Hot Air Ballooning started in NZ in the early 70s. To my knowledge, there have been no fatal accidents, one serious accident involving 1 person sustaining a few crushed vertebrae. There have been a few incidents over the years, but nothing too hair-raising.
You are right about the scenery. There are several professional operators scattered throughout the country. There is one small limitation in NZ. The country is oriented roughly North/South and the prevailing wind is Westerly. However on a good calm morning this is not a problem.
Enjoy your stay in NZ.
Cheers
What's New Zealand's safety record like then, does anyone know?
You are right about the scenery. There are several professional operators scattered throughout the country. There is one small limitation in NZ. The country is oriented roughly North/South and the prevailing wind is Westerly. However on a good calm morning this is not a problem.
Enjoy your stay in NZ.
Cheers
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Omaha - try not to be put off too much. Look at the statistics for fatal road/automobile accidents and they will far outweigh any aviation related one. Do we think about this when getting into our cars?
Maz
Maz
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Mazzy,
The stats you refer too are related to commercial Airliner traffic. Even in that case, the apparent safety is not related to Airlines, but to the relatively large numbers of people per journey. If cars could take 30-350 people per journey, then the stats would probably favour car.
The stats you refer too are related to commercial Airliner traffic. Even in that case, the apparent safety is not related to Airlines, but to the relatively large numbers of people per journey. If cars could take 30-350 people per journey, then the stats would probably favour car.
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HWD,
That doesn't really make sense.
If cars routinly carried 350 pax's, instead of the 1 or 2 that they usually carry, then each fatal car accident would probably result in 700 deaths, not just 2-4.
dp
That doesn't really make sense.
If cars routinly carried 350 pax's, instead of the 1 or 2 that they usually carry, then each fatal car accident would probably result in 700 deaths, not just 2-4.
dp
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Seems like accurate statistic are difficult to come by. But I think the overall view is that Ballooning is quite safe and good fun.
Someone said they didnt see many balloon, probably because most of them fly before you get up! Although there are also a lot flying in the evening, last couple of hours before sunset. THey dont fly in the middle of the day due to too much thermic acticvity and stronger winds, as well as hotter temperatures.
Gengis's inital comment about the safety included a statement- at least for public transport. I would imagine you would find that the sport balloonists have a better safety record than the public transport flights, at least in the UK. Ballooning is very weather dependant and many times you will find the sport balloonists deciding that the conditions are not right, so not flying, whereas the commercial operators are still flying. Some of this may be due to the commercial pilots having more experience, thus being able to land in worse conditions, but a lot of it due to the commercial pressure.
Not to mention the problems commercial balloonists have caused with landown relations, landing in crop and flying over animals (horses and pigs dont like balloons) that the sport pilots have been careful to avoid.
Im not a balloonist but have several friends who are and had some excellent flights with them. Definitly recommended.
Someone said they didnt see many balloon, probably because most of them fly before you get up! Although there are also a lot flying in the evening, last couple of hours before sunset. THey dont fly in the middle of the day due to too much thermic acticvity and stronger winds, as well as hotter temperatures.
Gengis's inital comment about the safety included a statement- at least for public transport. I would imagine you would find that the sport balloonists have a better safety record than the public transport flights, at least in the UK. Ballooning is very weather dependant and many times you will find the sport balloonists deciding that the conditions are not right, so not flying, whereas the commercial operators are still flying. Some of this may be due to the commercial pilots having more experience, thus being able to land in worse conditions, but a lot of it due to the commercial pressure.
Not to mention the problems commercial balloonists have caused with landown relations, landing in crop and flying over animals (horses and pigs dont like balloons) that the sport pilots have been careful to avoid.
Im not a balloonist but have several friends who are and had some excellent flights with them. Definitly recommended.
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DP,
Depends how you look at it. If there were fewer car journeys then the traffic would be less dense and there would be commensurately fewer accidents (especially collisions). Also, car accidents are survivable; very few aircraft crashes are. You could also look at it the other way, what if the same number of people flew but with only 1 or 2 PAX per flight?
Depends how you look at it. If there were fewer car journeys then the traffic would be less dense and there would be commensurately fewer accidents (especially collisions). Also, car accidents are survivable; very few aircraft crashes are. You could also look at it the other way, what if the same number of people flew but with only 1 or 2 PAX per flight?