How realistic?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: UK
How realistic?
Assuming a sum of £150,000 had miraculously become available to be spent on aviation. The intention would be to spend £50,000 on a post-1990 Socata TB9 (“horribly underpowered”, I know, but on the other hand all TBs “prior to 1989/90 are known for serious corrosion issues”) with the remaining £100,000 hopefully covering running costs over the next 10 years.
Question: How realistic, in financial terms, is that?
Other a/c options considered, but the following are non-negotiable: low-wing, non-taildragger, has to live outside. A fuel-injected engine would be nice! 
Question: How realistic, in financial terms, is that?
Other a/c options considered, but the following are non-negotiable: low-wing, non-taildragger, has to live outside. A fuel-injected engine would be nice!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
No doubt that the sums will add up and that you may even have some dosh left at the end of the 10 years; unless something went pretty badly wrong.
Am sure not every TB9 owner started off with £150k before they committed to buying one!
WHY would you want to buy a TB9 though?
There are a gazillion other aeroplane/engine combination that are so much nicer to fly for the same or less money.
Am sure not every TB9 owner started off with £150k before they committed to buying one!
WHY would you want to buy a TB9 though?
There are a gazillion other aeroplane/engine combination that are so much nicer to fly for the same or less money.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
Indeed FD, the Diamond DA-40 TDi Star with glass cockpit comes to mind!
Buying a TB9 is ridiculous with the newer options around. Factor in expensive parts (Inconel exhausts anyone?), a crappy old Lycoming (which could be improved with a set of GAMIs and an EGT/CHT monitor), and you're well on your way to parting with £150,000 for god knows what.
Options?
It depends really, what do you want to do with the aircraft? Short hops? Europe-wide stuff? Speed? Amount of pax? Fuel budget? Maintenance budget? Looks?
Nowadays nearly every aircraft will survive outside (TBs have corrosion problems - at least some of them do).
Conf
Buying a TB9 is ridiculous with the newer options around. Factor in expensive parts (Inconel exhausts anyone?), a crappy old Lycoming (which could be improved with a set of GAMIs and an EGT/CHT monitor), and you're well on your way to parting with £150,000 for god knows what.
Options?
It depends really, what do you want to do with the aircraft? Short hops? Europe-wide stuff? Speed? Amount of pax? Fuel budget? Maintenance budget? Looks?
Nowadays nearly every aircraft will survive outside (TBs have corrosion problems - at least some of them do).
Conf
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
Conf,
I don't think he's gonna be able to buy a "Diamond DA-40 TDi Star with glass cockpit" for £50k.
The balance of his £150 he would be setting aside for the ongoing costs for 10 years.
I'll speak up for the TB9 though. After I got my PPL, I did most of my flying in a TB9. Admittedly it wasn't particularly demanding flying, but I absolutely loved the TB9. The cabin had lots of room, and very much looked like a car from the 80's or 90's, and not one from the 60's or 70's! While that might not sound like a compliment to most people, it most certainly is when it comes to ga aircraft!
I currently fly an Arrow, but must confess that I'd happily change it for a TB9.
dp
I don't think he's gonna be able to buy a "Diamond DA-40 TDi Star with glass cockpit" for £50k.
The balance of his £150 he would be setting aside for the ongoing costs for 10 years.
I'll speak up for the TB9 though. After I got my PPL, I did most of my flying in a TB9. Admittedly it wasn't particularly demanding flying, but I absolutely loved the TB9. The cabin had lots of room, and very much looked like a car from the 80's or 90's, and not one from the 60's or 70's! While that might not sound like a compliment to most people, it most certainly is when it comes to ga aircraft!
I currently fly an Arrow, but must confess that I'd happily change it for a TB9.
dp
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: UK
Thanks everybody for your replies. Duplinpilot: bless your little cotton socks for endorsing the TB9! 
I too love flying the (club) Arrow – but know of at least two Arrows which spend inordinate amounts of time in engineering instead of in the air. Not very encouraging.
I too love flying the (club) Arrow – but know of at least two Arrows which spend inordinate amounts of time in engineering instead of in the air. Not very encouraging.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
DP,
He can buy a Star for £150k and have very low costs - far lower then the TB or Arrow. In the end, leaving £100k aside for maintenance is not smart in my opinion - that money could be invested, or at least used to buy an aircraft that'll hold its value. The maintenance bill on a TB9 could be higher than £100k anyway over that time - no doubt some more ADs will come into force.
Let's be fair, the logic of spending £50k on relatively old technology is normal in GA, but anywhere else it would be laughed at. The sales of the TB, Cessna and Piper ranges have been going down for a reason.
This is 2005 after all - let's keep it that way. 
Conf
PS: The reason I'm saying all this is simple - we have GA pilots saying that the standard aircraft are unreliable, inefficent and sometimes dangerous (card heat & icing issues). The more we buy the old style aircraft, even the secondhand ones, we're essentially saying 'Go ahead, keep using 50's technology - we're guillible enough to keep buying it!
The Cessnas, Pipers, TBs et al are only 'good enough'. And would wants to pay far over the odds for that? Volunteers?
He can buy a Star for £150k and have very low costs - far lower then the TB or Arrow. In the end, leaving £100k aside for maintenance is not smart in my opinion - that money could be invested, or at least used to buy an aircraft that'll hold its value. The maintenance bill on a TB9 could be higher than £100k anyway over that time - no doubt some more ADs will come into force.
Let's be fair, the logic of spending £50k on relatively old technology is normal in GA, but anywhere else it would be laughed at. The sales of the TB, Cessna and Piper ranges have been going down for a reason.
This is 2005 after all - let's keep it that way. Conf
PS: The reason I'm saying all this is simple - we have GA pilots saying that the standard aircraft are unreliable, inefficent and sometimes dangerous (card heat & icing issues). The more we buy the old style aircraft, even the secondhand ones, we're essentially saying 'Go ahead, keep using 50's technology - we're guillible enough to keep buying it!
The Cessnas, Pipers, TBs et al are only 'good enough'. And would wants to pay far over the odds for that? Volunteers?
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
From: Dublin
Conf,
You're missing the point.
He might have £150k to buy an aircraft, and fund 10 years worth of flying.
If he spends the £150k on the aircraft, he has nothing left over to pay ongoing costs, no matter how small they are.
Insurance, parking are significant costs, and won't be any cheaper for a Diamond Star.
Not much point in having a beautiful aircraft, if you can't afford to fly it, never mind having to sell it to pay for the insurance/parking outstanding.
We'd all love a nice new aircraft, but needless to say, we can't all afford one.
dp.
ps. Did you get my message? You missed a lovely evenings flight
You're missing the point.
He might have £150k to buy an aircraft, and fund 10 years worth of flying.
If he spends the £150k on the aircraft, he has nothing left over to pay ongoing costs, no matter how small they are.
Insurance, parking are significant costs, and won't be any cheaper for a Diamond Star.
Not much point in having a beautiful aircraft, if you can't afford to fly it, never mind having to sell it to pay for the insurance/parking outstanding.
We'd all love a nice new aircraft, but needless to say, we can't all afford one.
dp.
ps. Did you get my message? You missed a lovely evenings flight
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,042
Likes: 0
From: Oxford
Interesting to speculate, though, if he spent £100k on a really nice one, would £50k be enough to keep it going for 10 years? I'm guessing not. Which is why so many old bangers are out there (and I spend so much time in them!)
Tim
Tim
