Self-Builds and CofA restrictions

[italianjon]

Hi guys,

I have been thinking for a while about a self build, something along the lines of the Europa - or similar.

My aim is to do some touring of Europe.

I would like to Self build as I enjoy that sort of thing, and am wondering if there are any restrictions to the C of A for a self build.

I have a feeling I read somewhere that a self build can't leave UK airspace, so that kind of renders my use irrelevant. Am I correct?

Cheers

Jon

[shortstripper]

You are very much incorrect. Go to
Popular Flying Association to find out all about self building in the UK. There is also the BMAA for microlights.

SS

[Genghis the Engineer]

An amateur built aeroplane can't hold a CofA, it must hold a PtF. This does have restrictions, but the only one on overseas flight is that you must have overflight permission (it's not automatic) from the authority responsible for the airspace to be overflown (or landed in). However, existing arrangements already cover this across most of Europe without having to do anything - most of this thanks to the hard work of Ken Craigie at PFA HQ.

If you are considering this, the best advice I can offer is join the PFA, and go to the rally (or whatever it's now called) at Kemble in July. Talk to people, gather information, and see what will work for you.

But in general, if you don't mind a day-VFR limitation, permit / homebuilt aircraft can offer more aeroplane, for less money and much lower operating costs. The overseas issue is a non-problem.

G

[Bluebeard777]

Jon,
You will find the practices of European countries with regard to requiring or issuing specific permission for flight by a foreign permit-to-fly aircraft vary widely. Most western European states have implemented an ECAC recommendation for the mutual recognition of flight permits for amateur built aircraft. However a significant number (including, it seems, the UK) do not adhere to this. Spain Greece and Belgium are among those other countries that require explicit permission for your aircraft, and the latter imposes a EUR77 fee for the paperwork. Germany, Denmark and Austria also have specific minimum insurance requirements for aircraft, which I presume will not be superseded by the Europe-wide minimum coming into force next week.

So the amount of paperwork bureaucracy you will face depends on where you want to go!

[QNH 1013]

The most restrictive part of the PFA permit on UK homebuilt aircraft is that they are banned from flying IFR.

[bar shaker]

QNH 1013

That's a bit like saying

"A major dissadvantage of the Caterham 7 is that you can't get a fridge in the back."

[italianjon]

Thanks guys.

Has helped a lot... I'll probably ask more questions as time progresses... I think it's viable to do as a Tourer... if IFR is the only restriction, and the others are a bit more hassle... I guess the feeling of flying yourself on holiday, in a plane you built outweighs them.

Thanks for your advice... the PFA website was very helpful!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Incidentally, it's not well known but if you have an IMC or IR rating, the reduction in your personal IFR minima also apply to a permit aicraft, even outside the UK - so there are still benefits.

G

[QNH 1013]

Bar Shaker,
No, getting a fridge in the back is related to size and it is now possible to build a pfa permit aircraft with four seats, i.e. the most popular size for touring aircraft.
The analogy is more like having a car that could only drive on some of the roads, only in certain weather conditions, and only during daylight.
There is a lot of confusion among some pilots about what are VMC, IMC, VFR and IFR. Some pilots think they are in VMC and therefore entitled to fly VFR when in fact they are in IMC (still clear of cloud and in good vis) and therefore can only fly legally IFR, which you cannot at present do in a pfa permit aircraft!

[Rod1]

The original post was mostly about European touring. Unless you have an IR, which is very rare, the weather limits for permit and C of A are identical as soon as you get across the water. Europe is visited by a large number of permit aircraft every year, with no more pain than a C of A aircraft, with the exception of the small group of countries listed earlier. I often spend 1/3 of my yearly flying time in France, and once you get out of the costal area, you find as many G reg permit a/c as c of a.

Rod1

[englishal]

when in fact they are in IMC (still clear of cloud and in good vis)

How does that work then?....Now I'm confused

[Mike Cross]

QNH 1013

On a point of pedantry.....

Art 9A of the ANO contains the following

(7) An aircraft flying in accordance with a permit to fly shall only be flown by day and in accordance with the Visual Flight Rules unless the prior permission of the CAA has been obtained.

Be interesting to see what the reaction would be were one to ask for permission. This article seems to have been changed at the last amendment.

[Julian]

What about homebuild that have been imported from the US on the N reg?

Seen a few advertised with full IFR kit, how is flying one in the UK on an FAA IR viewed? Allowed but frowned upon?

Julian.

[QNH 1013]

Englishal,
Standard VMC minima above alt 3000' are minimum of 1000' vertical and 1500m horizontal separation from cloud. (Don't you just love the mixed units.) Any closer to cloud than this and you are in IMC, and therefore VFR is not an option, so IFR required.

Mike, Many thanks for that info. I was not aware of that. I might try asking........but I won't hold my breath.

Rod1, IRs are not that rare. There is a thriving PPL/IR network across europe and ppls are still getting IRs even post JAR, and plenty of commercial pilots also fly permit aircraft.

[englishal]

Right...I see what you're saying.

[Mark 1]

Julian,

Foreign homebuilts have no "right" to fly in UK airspace.

There is a concession under AN52 that allows upto 28 days use, subject to day/VFR.

Lots of aircraft are weighed down with all sorts of "full IFR" kit and only get used VFR.