Calling Controllers By Their First Name.......
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Calling Controllers By Their First Name.......
I have noticed this a lot recently, instructors calling the controllers by their first names on the radio.
A couple of things I would like to know regarding this;
Do you call your local controller by their real name?
If you are a controller, do you mind someone using your first name?
Sorry if it seems a bit of a weird subject but it is something that has been niggling away at me for a while now and I would like to know what others here think.
(back to the dark room now...............)
A couple of things I would like to know regarding this;
Do you call your local controller by their real name?
If you are a controller, do you mind someone using your first name?
Sorry if it seems a bit of a weird subject but it is something that has been niggling away at me for a while now and I would like to know what others here think.
(back to the dark room now...............)
Spicy Meatball
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Liverpool UK
When I was an Air Cadet (learning to use the radios (on the ground, non aviation)) I was always taught never to use anyone's name, as it was illegal? Don't know whether this can relate to aviation or not, but would be good to know.
Maz
Maz
Cool Mod
Joined: Apr 1998
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From: 18nm N of LGW
Don't know if its illegal but it is very bad practice and can lead to confusion.
Pretty soon you would have controllers using first names to the pilot he is controlling - then were would we be?
Pretty soon you would have controllers using first names to the pilot he is controlling - then were would we be?
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Dorset
At Bournemouth, when I was learning (96), it was very common for the old & bold instructors to call the similarly talented ATCOs by first names.
When taking to a particular controller at EDI (who I knew very well), I'd occasionally slip and mention his first name (but within a message that was prefixed / suffixed by normal formalities).
When taking to a particular controller at EDI (who I knew very well), I'd occasionally slip and mention his first name (but within a message that was prefixed / suffixed by normal formalities).
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: London
Heard once at Ronaldsway -
A commercial aircraft came on frequency, callsign [Company]123, with a pilot obviously known to the controller. The controller then used the callsign [Jim]123 in future exchanges. Shortly afterwards, another commercial comes on frequency, hears the other exchanges and demands to be called [Bob]234. Controller responds, "negative, but you can be Heidi234 if you like." The second pilot declined.
A commercial aircraft came on frequency, callsign [Company]123, with a pilot obviously known to the controller. The controller then used the callsign [Jim]123 in future exchanges. Shortly afterwards, another commercial comes on frequency, hears the other exchanges and demands to be called [Bob]234. Controller responds, "negative, but you can be Heidi234 if you like." The second pilot declined.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: N.E. Derbyshire, UK
The time to worry is when you get addressed by your pprune name!
Exactly that happened to me, just after taking off from Norwich a couple of years back. As tower handed me over to approach, I was given a friendly... "regards to Big Al" just before changing frequency.
Never did find out if it was NikNak, but Norwich were great when I was there. I even forgot to book out in person (assuming I could do it over the radio - Oops, force of habit) but they didn't bat an eyelid.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Joined: Jun 2001
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From:
In the first ambulance service I worked for it was policy to pass the controller your initials when receiving a 999 call and the controller would then respond with theirs... idea being it was logged on the tape who said what.
One day I was working with a guy called John L****n and the controller was John H*****y; A job was passed to us and then the formalities:
Controller:"..Thank you John, My initials JH, and yours please?"
Crew: "Thanks John, JL."
Controller: "Roger Mr.L***n, Red Base out."
PW
One day I was working with a guy called John L****n and the controller was John H*****y; A job was passed to us and then the formalities:
Controller:"..Thank you John, My initials JH, and yours please?"
Crew: "Thanks John, JL."
Controller: "Roger Mr.L***n, Red Base out."
PW
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
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Unless they start its pretty bad form. If it is used it can only be for social stuff or for there info eg organising a first solo Never for an instruction or a request for information.
Sometimes it seems to be used to bypass the student when they want to talk to the instructor and the student is on the RT eg xxxxxxx i have an inbound in 10 mins how many T&G's have you got to go.
Also the ATCO is human as well and works with the instructor day in day out and its not unknown for another freq to be given for box 2 to get that nights beer drinking plans sorted out.
MJ
Sometimes it seems to be used to bypass the student when they want to talk to the instructor and the student is on the RT eg xxxxxxx i have an inbound in 10 mins how many T&G's have you got to go.
Also the ATCO is human as well and works with the instructor day in day out and its not unknown for another freq to be given for box 2 to get that nights beer drinking plans sorted out.
MJ
High Flying Bird
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Old Sarum ish
Many people call me by name and I do the same. However, we do use call signs too! For example:
"North Weald, good morning, this is G-****"
"G-****, North Weald, good morning Kolibear, pass your message"
"Good morning AerBabe, G-**** is a ..." etc etc.
Note: Kolibear's RT isn't that good. He doesn't bother with 'Golf'.
"North Weald, good morning, this is G-****"
"G-****, North Weald, good morning Kolibear, pass your message"
"Good morning AerBabe, G-**** is a ..." etc etc.
Note: Kolibear's RT isn't that good. He doesn't bother with 'Golf'.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: S37.54 E145.11
Don't Do It!
Professional pilots can be identified as those who are acting professionally at all times whether they are flying, navigating or communicating.
Most pilots don't operate or navigate the aircraft by compromising published or regulatory standards, so why do some pilots/ATCOs feel compelled to compromise published communications standards? There is enough frequency congestion as it is without ATCOs/pilots further contributing through the injection of innane chatter which may, in fact, compromise aviation safety.
So, the next time any pilot or controller feel the need to have a "chat", spare a thought for the pilot in distress who is waiting for you guys to finish so that he can get his "mayday" call in to ATC; or for the ATCO who is waiting for the pilots to finish so that he can advise each aircraft of that traffic that's about to enter their cockpits through their front windscreens!
Most pilots don't operate or navigate the aircraft by compromising published or regulatory standards, so why do some pilots/ATCOs feel compelled to compromise published communications standards? There is enough frequency congestion as it is without ATCOs/pilots further contributing through the injection of innane chatter which may, in fact, compromise aviation safety.
So, the next time any pilot or controller feel the need to have a "chat", spare a thought for the pilot in distress who is waiting for you guys to finish so that he can get his "mayday" call in to ATC; or for the ATCO who is waiting for the pilots to finish so that he can advise each aircraft of that traffic that's about to enter their cockpits through their front windscreens!
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Whilst I've no time for people who chat on RT, there is a difference between trying to emulate a robot and acting like a human being.
On a relatively quiet channel, two words of personal acknowledgment do no harm, and help to maintain a friendly working environment for everybody.
Assuming you both know who each other are !
G
On a relatively quiet channel, two words of personal acknowledgment do no harm, and help to maintain a friendly working environment for everybody.
Assuming you both know who each other are !
G
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
I'm with Genghis. I fly from an airport where the RT varies from the hectic to very quiet. There are 5 commercial training companies, 4 fixed-wing clubs and a helicopter school. There are also various airlines, a government contractor and other small operators flying out of here.
During the day it is busy, occasionally difficult to get a call in. However due to the pattern of use, by 18:00 it is quiet, then I will occasionally say hi to a friend in the tower or on radar. This can even be useful, as it lets them know it's me, and they get used to the fact that I am an experienced pilot and instructor, so I can be asked to do more to fit in with their needs to facilitate traffic flow whenver they hear my voice.
During the day it is busy, occasionally difficult to get a call in. However due to the pattern of use, by 18:00 it is quiet, then I will occasionally say hi to a friend in the tower or on radar. This can even be useful, as it lets them know it's me, and they get used to the fact that I am an experienced pilot and instructor, so I can be asked to do more to fit in with their needs to facilitate traffic flow whenver they hear my voice.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: South of France
As one QSY's from one's own airfield, I can't see the harm in allowing the below-stairs staff to show a little familiarity.....
Other than that though, standards Ladies and Gentlemen, standards.
Other than that though, standards Ladies and Gentlemen, standards.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Wherever i lay my hat, that's my home...
When I was an Air Cadet (learning to use the radios (on the ground, non aviation)) I was always taught never to use anyone's name, as it was illegal?
You use Military Frequencies, and are therefore under much tighter rules.
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Anyone who has ever worked with a naval fighter director will have spoken to the infamous "Roger Waitout" - he seems to have had more sea time than Nelson!
Spicy Meatball
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Liverpool UK
Well said ItalianJon 
As a student, I do like to put the odd 'social' word in there, as Genghis said, it does no harm and maintains a good atmosphere. For example, when changing frequency, the odd "thank-you" or "good-day" doesn't go wrong
As a student, I do like to put the odd 'social' word in there, as Genghis said, it does no harm and maintains a good atmosphere. For example, when changing frequency, the odd "thank-you" or "good-day" doesn't go wrong
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
You use Military Frequencies, and are therefore under much tighter rules.
G