Escape from overturned low-wing VLA type aircraft.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales UK.
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Escape from overturned low-wing VLA type aircraft.
Just when I had a fit of the "vapours" under control!
The AAIB are concerned that evacuation from overturned low-wing aircraft like Europa, Tri-Kis, ATL, etc., would be very difficult without outside help. They recommend a hand-held "implement" in the cockpit, suitable to break out through the canopy.
I intend to rig up a sheet of Lexan and try to knock a hole in it big enough to get through! Anyone have any thoughts on what would be the most suitable implement? Eg: Hammer, Axe, Domestic chopper, RAF Crash-Axe, Blunt? Sharp? Pointed? etc.
MG
The AAIB are concerned that evacuation from overturned low-wing aircraft like Europa, Tri-Kis, ATL, etc., would be very difficult without outside help. They recommend a hand-held "implement" in the cockpit, suitable to break out through the canopy.
I intend to rig up a sheet of Lexan and try to knock a hole in it big enough to get through! Anyone have any thoughts on what would be the most suitable implement? Eg: Hammer, Axe, Domestic chopper, RAF Crash-Axe, Blunt? Sharp? Pointed? etc.
MG
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you use Lexan then you will find it virtually impossible to break.
Perspex on the other hand should be quite easy with one of those "window smashing, seatbelt cutting" gizmo's that they sell in Halfords etc
Perspex on the other hand should be quite easy with one of those "window smashing, seatbelt cutting" gizmo's that they sell in Halfords etc
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have recently been involved in maintenance on a Lancair Columbia. It addresses the problem in two ways. Firstly they have installed a simple door jetison system accessed from the belly panel which is a simple cable that when pulled by rescue crew releases the door hinge pins. A fairly simple mod to incorporate in the build stage of any gull wing door type.
And secondly they supply the pilot with a fairly substantial Axe!
Somehow though I feel that with most aircraft that turn over most of the transparancies will be cracked / broken no matter how gently the flip over is.
And secondly they supply the pilot with a fairly substantial Axe!
Somehow though I feel that with most aircraft that turn over most of the transparancies will be cracked / broken no matter how gently the flip over is.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good Call
Good call on the topic. Its somthing that I've always wondered...... how the hell is one supposed to escape from an a aircraft such as a robin dr 400/ tiara/aiglon ?
Is there a recommended way/tool to smash your way out after being hammered around during an emergency landing and ending up viewing the world from an inverted position ?
I know that the TB 10/20 range have a rear window that you can kick out, but flying a robin myself Its a non runner for me.
Any suggestions out there?
Is there a recommended way/tool to smash your way out after being hammered around during an emergency landing and ending up viewing the world from an inverted position ?
I know that the TB 10/20 range have a rear window that you can kick out, but flying a robin myself Its a non runner for me.
Any suggestions out there?
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how the hell is one supposed to escape from an a aircraft such as a robin dr 400/ tiara/aiglon ?
Regards, SD..
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales UK.
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm...
My Robin ATL has an upwards opening lexan bubble canopy.
Perhaps the adrenaline rush would give the strength to fight my way out if upsidedown in a field. But trial attacks on a test piece of Lexan are not encouraging. Lexan is indeed tough stuff! Also swinging a crash axe in a small cockpit could decapitate my pax!
Seems like the AAIB are on to a problem that needs sorting.
MG
My Robin ATL has an upwards opening lexan bubble canopy.
Perhaps the adrenaline rush would give the strength to fight my way out if upsidedown in a field. But trial attacks on a test piece of Lexan are not encouraging. Lexan is indeed tough stuff! Also swinging a crash axe in a small cockpit could decapitate my pax!
Seems like the AAIB are on to a problem that needs sorting.
MG
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BNN, OCK =)
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The DR400 could just have the back window/canopy kicked out.
The RV's are excellent when they overturn. It's like being built around a cage.
The PA28 couldn't be the easiest in the world to get out of either. Those window's ARE rather small and You'd be underneath the wing.
The RV's are excellent when they overturn. It's like being built around a cage.
The PA28 couldn't be the easiest in the world to get out of either. Those window's ARE rather small and You'd be underneath the wing.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike,
If your canopy is made of Lexan then you have a problem since this is what is used for "Vandal proof" glazing i.e. it should not break.
Perspex on the other hand is quite easy to break.
Redo your test with perspex and you will have a very different result.
If your canopy is made of Lexan then you have a problem since this is what is used for "Vandal proof" glazing i.e. it should not break.
Perspex on the other hand is quite easy to break.
Redo your test with perspex and you will have a very different result.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Interesting question!
I agree with jeppsbore, I'd imagine that the initial impact would probably fracture the glazing anyway. Whether the subsequent gap would be big enough to escape through is a different matter.
Back in my motorsport days I used to bind (using tank tape) a razor blade to my harness so that I could cut through the webbing in the event of the buckle becoming jammed (never thinking I might not be able to squeeze out the aperture, by the way!).
I'd probably opt for a stout axe (secured to the floor) and swing it like a madman possesed if I had to.
PD
I agree with jeppsbore, I'd imagine that the initial impact would probably fracture the glazing anyway. Whether the subsequent gap would be big enough to escape through is a different matter.
Back in my motorsport days I used to bind (using tank tape) a razor blade to my harness so that I could cut through the webbing in the event of the buckle becoming jammed (never thinking I might not be able to squeeze out the aperture, by the way!).
I'd probably opt for a stout axe (secured to the floor) and swing it like a madman possesed if I had to.
PD
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Norfolk, England
Age: 58
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try a sturdy sheath knife Mike. I'm sure I had some Lexan (or something very similar) that I found wouldn't shatter but would actually cut. Stab it and saw ... I might be wrong, but it's worth a try.
SS
SS
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Up there somewhere
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We have an axe in our Robin; and we are advised to un latch the cabin on the event of having to do a forced landing.
How would you escape if you ditched in water and overturned? The water pressure would be immense...
How would you escape if you ditched in water and overturned? The water pressure would be immense...
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SX in SX in UK
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first problem is to get out of the now inverted seat without breaking your neck. Assuming that you remebered to remove your headest, wriggled out of the seatbelt unharmed and are now laying on the roof of the aircraft in amongst the flightbag, a/c cover and other debris from the back seat,then I'd kick the **** out of the canopy until it broke.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Home
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kolibear,
A "been there, done that" answer to your post. Break the canopy before you undo your straps. Clearly from the discussions above, lexan canopies require a bit more thought; but perspex breaks very easily particularly when you are frightened and can smell avgas.
Before you undo your straps, put a hand up and brace it against the roof. Otherwise, as you say, you can hurt yourself as you fall out of your seat.
When I was in this situation, I think it would have been very much harder to break the canopy had I undone my straps first.
A "been there, done that" answer to your post. Break the canopy before you undo your straps. Clearly from the discussions above, lexan canopies require a bit more thought; but perspex breaks very easily particularly when you are frightened and can smell avgas.
Before you undo your straps, put a hand up and brace it against the roof. Otherwise, as you say, you can hurt yourself as you fall out of your seat.
When I was in this situation, I think it would have been very much harder to break the canopy had I undone my straps first.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that a few people are confusing "Lexan" (a polycarbonate) with "Perspex" (an Acrylic).
For details of Lexan see http://www.gelexan.com/gelexan/
Note the statements about its strength and shatter resistance.
Perspex on the other hand is quite easy to break as are most acrylics.
The EV97 Eurostar that someone mentioned is described on the company website as having an "Organic glass" canopy. Googling on that phrase turns up manufacturers of acrylic not Lexan.
Maybe Gengis can comment on this but I would doubt that any low winged aircraft would get past the relevant authorities (BMAA/BGA/PFA/CAA/EASA/FAA) with an unbreakable canopy.
For details of Lexan see http://www.gelexan.com/gelexan/
Note the statements about its strength and shatter resistance.
Perspex on the other hand is quite easy to break as are most acrylics.
The EV97 Eurostar that someone mentioned is described on the company website as having an "Organic glass" canopy. Googling on that phrase turns up manufacturers of acrylic not Lexan.
Maybe Gengis can comment on this but I would doubt that any low winged aircraft would get past the relevant authorities (BMAA/BGA/PFA/CAA/EASA/FAA) with an unbreakable canopy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wales UK.
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The report which got me interested in this potential problem, is on page 74 of May "Pilot" mag, in Safety matters. It's just possible that all those worthy bodies CAA, JAA, PFA, BMAA, not to forget the French GSAC, just may not have thought about it.
If I can get hold of a scrap ATL canopy, to attack with various implements, the Perspex / Lexan question would be answered, for me at least.
Meanwhile my battered bit of Lexan has succumbed to a sharp pointed hunting knife, but it took more time than I would wish to be upsidedown listening to avgas dripping!
Would be interesting to have an engineers opinion.
MG
If I can get hold of a scrap ATL canopy, to attack with various implements, the Perspex / Lexan question would be answered, for me at least.
Meanwhile my battered bit of Lexan has succumbed to a sharp pointed hunting knife, but it took more time than I would wish to be upsidedown listening to avgas dripping!
Would be interesting to have an engineers opinion.
MG