Thanks, Manchester!
Why do it if it's not fun?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, Manchester!
From time to time, we see threads on here discussing which ATC units are most helpful to light aircraft, and which have a reputation for not being interested.
Manchester often seems to fall into the "not interested" category. Unless you are inbound to them, or to a field in their zone, the most you're likely to get from them, according to what I tend to read on-line, is flight information down the low-level route (possibly with a very brief mention of the dozen aircraft going the other way down the route if they're bored). So I've never really bothered trying to ask them for much more than this.
A couple of days ago, I had a trial lesson who wanted to fly over his house. We checked the chart, and his house, on the edge of Oldham, was just outside the Manchester CTR, but only just. I told him that we'd be able to get close to his house, but I was a little cautious. Once we were approaching the area, I called Manchester approach, and informed them I was "general handling in the Oldham area, remaining clear of controlled airspace to north of, but very close to, your zone, request Flight Information." Seemed like a sensible thing to do.
A huge thank you to the controller, who immediately gave me a squawk and told me I was "cleared into the zone over Oldham if I needed to do so, let me know when you're leaving the area". Totally un-prompted, and it took a lot of pressure off me since it meant it could concentrate on talking to my student and helping him find his house, rather than spending all my time ensuring remained clear of controlled airspace in an area which I don't know all that well.
Just thought I'd mention this. Two reasons for doing so: first of all, to say that Manchester aren't the demons they're made out to be, they are just as helpful as everyone else when they're quiet (it did sound quiet on the frequency at the time). And secondly, just because a unit has a reputation for not being helpful, it doesn't do any harm to speak to them and see if they're able to offer you any help, because they might just surprise you!
FFF
-------------
Manchester often seems to fall into the "not interested" category. Unless you are inbound to them, or to a field in their zone, the most you're likely to get from them, according to what I tend to read on-line, is flight information down the low-level route (possibly with a very brief mention of the dozen aircraft going the other way down the route if they're bored). So I've never really bothered trying to ask them for much more than this.
A couple of days ago, I had a trial lesson who wanted to fly over his house. We checked the chart, and his house, on the edge of Oldham, was just outside the Manchester CTR, but only just. I told him that we'd be able to get close to his house, but I was a little cautious. Once we were approaching the area, I called Manchester approach, and informed them I was "general handling in the Oldham area, remaining clear of controlled airspace to north of, but very close to, your zone, request Flight Information." Seemed like a sensible thing to do.
A huge thank you to the controller, who immediately gave me a squawk and told me I was "cleared into the zone over Oldham if I needed to do so, let me know when you're leaving the area". Totally un-prompted, and it took a lot of pressure off me since it meant it could concentrate on talking to my student and helping him find his house, rather than spending all my time ensuring remained clear of controlled airspace in an area which I don't know all that well.
Just thought I'd mention this. Two reasons for doing so: first of all, to say that Manchester aren't the demons they're made out to be, they are just as helpful as everyone else when they're quiet (it did sound quiet on the frequency at the time). And secondly, just because a unit has a reputation for not being helpful, it doesn't do any harm to speak to them and see if they're able to offer you any help, because they might just surprise you!
FFF
-------------
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FFF,
Glad to hear that.
But I still haven't quite forgiven them for refusing to give us a FIS when we were transitting the Low Level Route in about 5km vis.
Glad to hear that.
But I still haven't quite forgiven them for refusing to give us a FIS when we were transitting the Low Level Route in about 5km vis.
Spicy Meatball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liverpool UK
Age: 41
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hehe yeah should have asked good old scousers in Liverpool 
Good post FFF - I am yet to have the experience of the low level route, but I am sure within a few months I can tell you all about it
There was a good article in this month's Todays Pilot magazine about Manchester, a very good read for anyone going there, or flying the area for that matter.
Regards,
Maz
Good post FFF - I am yet to have the experience of the low level route, but I am sure within a few months I can tell you all about it
There was a good article in this month's Todays Pilot magazine about Manchester, a very good read for anyone going there, or flying the area for that matter.Regards,
Maz
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We talked to Warton I think, or maybe Liverpool; can't remember. But that's not the point. In marginal vis, with all aircraft at around 1000 ft and following the same narrow corridor, you all want to be talking to the same people - and talking to MAN makes most sense. Still, we survived.
mazzy,
It is indeed an excellent article, and as a result of reading it we were planning on going there tomorrow (despite my feelings about MAN ATC
) but the forecast looks horrible.
mazzy,
It is indeed an excellent article, and as a result of reading it we were planning on going there tomorrow (despite my feelings about MAN ATC
) but the forecast looks horrible.
Spicy Meatball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liverpool UK
Age: 41
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah Whirly - looking out the window it doesn't look too good in terms of cloud - very low indeed. The vis is excellent though, I can see Blackpool tower extremely clear and further (from Ormskirk) and the wind ain't too bad. I would love to give Manchester a go, but fear that it may be some time away when I can actually build up the courage to do so 
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We've given up the idea. Low cloud is forecast, intermittent rain with associated poor vis, and Shawbury's forecast winds are 17G30, with Manchester's similar. 
And crosswind at MAN too I think, though I didn't even bother to work that out since we'd decided by then not to go. It might be flyable if I absolutely had to (does that ever happen; I don't think so), or locally in an area I know. But for a first trip to Manchester, we'd like to be able to concentrate on their procedures, not on survival!!! So I'm doing some work instead (sigh), but on the next nice day we'll give it a go.
And crosswind at MAN too I think, though I didn't even bother to work that out since we'd decided by then not to go. It might be flyable if I absolutely had to (does that ever happen; I don't think so), or locally in an area I know. But for a first trip to Manchester, we'd like to be able to concentrate on their procedures, not on survival!!! So I'm doing some work instead (sigh), but on the next nice day we'll give it a go.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manchester are usually pretty good about allowing VFR zone entries such as that described by FFF - just goung into the zone by a mile or so. About 3 years ago I even took our Yak 52 over Wilmslow for a photo detail - and it didn't have a transponder (but being the big brute it was, it probably gave a pretty good primary return!).
Of course years ago SVFR transitis of the zone Barton to Buxton or Congleton, via the Manch overhead, were routine. Not so today. But some controllers will allow direct Barton from the LLR northbound once you are through the 24R/06L extended centreline.
SSD
Of course years ago SVFR transitis of the zone Barton to Buxton or Congleton, via the Manch overhead, were routine. Not so today. But some controllers will allow direct Barton from the LLR northbound once you are through the 24R/06L extended centreline.
SSD
