Oban Airport under threat
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: TL487591
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oban Airport under threat
With apologies to the Moderators, could I draw people's attention to
THIS THREAD on the Flyer forums
which gives details of a threat hanging over Oban Airport in Scotland.
In a nutshell, it would appear that having built the airport up to its present popular status, Paul Keegan and his firm TLC seem likely to have the operation of the airport taken away from them and handed to HIAL (Highlands and Islands Airports Limited).
Anybody who has ever experienced HIAL's inflexible opening hours, over-administrated out-of-hours indemnities, landing fees and general approach to life, will immediately understand the nature of the threat.
Take a look at the thread, and do give the "protest" your support.
2D
THIS THREAD on the Flyer forums
which gives details of a threat hanging over Oban Airport in Scotland.
In a nutshell, it would appear that having built the airport up to its present popular status, Paul Keegan and his firm TLC seem likely to have the operation of the airport taken away from them and handed to HIAL (Highlands and Islands Airports Limited).
Anybody who has ever experienced HIAL's inflexible opening hours, over-administrated out-of-hours indemnities, landing fees and general approach to life, will immediately understand the nature of the threat.
Take a look at the thread, and do give the "protest" your support.
2D
I can certainly speak with some experience of the friendliness, helpfulness and efficiency of Paul Keegan at Connell. Anything which detracts from that would be a grave blow to anybody flying to, from or around Western Scotland.
I don't personally think that the HIAL airports are as bad as described here, but they are certainly a step behind Connell in user-friendliness.
G
I don't personally think that the HIAL airports are as bad as described here, but they are certainly a step behind Connell in user-friendliness.
G
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The main problem I see with HIAL are the opening hours (especially at weekends), and the seemingly lack of fuel, when I was there last summer.
Oban by contrast was a joy.
Email sent.
I've believe Stornoway is also a HIAL, and in their defence, I must say that by contrast to the other HIAL airports that I visited, it was fantastic. I spent a weathered in few days there last summer, and they were nothing short of brilliant. Couldn't have done more for us.
dp
Oban by contrast was a joy.
Email sent.
I've believe Stornoway is also a HIAL, and in their defence, I must say that by contrast to the other HIAL airports that I visited, it was fantastic. I spent a weathered in few days there last summer, and they were nothing short of brilliant. Couldn't have done more for us.
dp
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oban is really the only remote site in the NW of Scotland. If it goes the way of the hours on the others then goodbye weekend flying in the region forever unless you have your own fuel truck parked up there.
Now why do Oban get the movements that Tiree, Campbeltown, Islay etc do not ? Hmmm
Now why do Oban get the movements that Tiree, Campbeltown, Islay etc do not ? Hmmm
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mail sent. I only hope that thier service level remains as high as TLC.
I fly from Glasgow and would hate to see a limit of operational hours. Connel charges a small fee for an extremely good service. Flying into the field in fine weather, with those views is bliss.
Apriana
I fly from Glasgow and would hate to see a limit of operational hours. Connel charges a small fee for an extremely good service. Flying into the field in fine weather, with those views is bliss.
Apriana
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The loss of the Jammy Dodgers would be a severe blow.
The improvement of the airport would not. The council are absolutely right about the need for expansion of the air routes to the islands. Getting there by ferry is a pain. Ironically enough, there was an informal charter air service provided by a certain pilot up that way until the CAA suggested he was short of more than a few of the pieces of paper he needed for charter work and stamped on him.
Compare the ease with which Orkney islanders get to and from their islands (regular flights, heavily subsidised prices, nice terminal at Kirkwall) to the service in the Western Isles and you see what could be done.
The problem with this proposal is it is the usual public service "grand plan" rather than the organic growth which most real businesses would go for. "Build the airport and they will come".
Build the route, see if it is economic and what the demand is. Then do up the airport.
They sweep away all that is good in the name of the "grand plan" which fails leaving us all worse off. Unfortunately, HIAL are a public service outfit too and like to think (a) grand and (b) commercial only. They are the wrong outfit for this job.
The only HIAL airports that are any use are the ones which get enough commercial scheduled traffic for HIAL to keep them open all day (ie Kirkwall and Inverness). God help us if Oban doesn't get the traffic like the grand plan says it will...
Anyway, email sent.
The improvement of the airport would not. The council are absolutely right about the need for expansion of the air routes to the islands. Getting there by ferry is a pain. Ironically enough, there was an informal charter air service provided by a certain pilot up that way until the CAA suggested he was short of more than a few of the pieces of paper he needed for charter work and stamped on him.
Compare the ease with which Orkney islanders get to and from their islands (regular flights, heavily subsidised prices, nice terminal at Kirkwall) to the service in the Western Isles and you see what could be done.
The problem with this proposal is it is the usual public service "grand plan" rather than the organic growth which most real businesses would go for. "Build the airport and they will come".
Build the route, see if it is economic and what the demand is. Then do up the airport.
They sweep away all that is good in the name of the "grand plan" which fails leaving us all worse off. Unfortunately, HIAL are a public service outfit too and like to think (a) grand and (b) commercial only. They are the wrong outfit for this job.
The only HIAL airports that are any use are the ones which get enough commercial scheduled traffic for HIAL to keep them open all day (ie Kirkwall and Inverness). God help us if Oban doesn't get the traffic like the grand plan says it will...
Anyway, email sent.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like everyone else I am more than impressed with the service provided by Paul Keegan at Oban, although the actual airport facilities are definitely in need of investment.
However I am also quite impressed with the service and facilities provided by the HIAL airports that I use. They are professional and friendly, with quite reasonable costs for the service provided.
Maybe a mix of HIAL investment to provide commercial facilities and an improved airport, with Paul catering for the GA crowd in his own style would be a winning combination for all.
In short I dont think being a fan of Paul Keegan is any reason to attack HIAL, and do not believe the debate needs to be quite so polarised as some are making it.
However I am also quite impressed with the service and facilities provided by the HIAL airports that I use. They are professional and friendly, with quite reasonable costs for the service provided.
Maybe a mix of HIAL investment to provide commercial facilities and an improved airport, with Paul catering for the GA crowd in his own style would be a winning combination for all.
In short I dont think being a fan of Paul Keegan is any reason to attack HIAL, and do not believe the debate needs to be quite so polarised as some are making it.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Opening Hours
If defence of HIAL, although opening hours at many of the airports are very restrictive, you can apply for an out-of-hours permit which allows use of nearly all of the airfields at a cost of £25.00 per year + proof of insurance.
Application forms from HIAL Inverness or download from their website.
Application forms from HIAL Inverness or download from their website.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: TL487591
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think that some people really grasp the meaning of an out-of-hours permit.
Your out of hours indemnity gives you the right to crash and burn on a deserted airfield whenever you like, provided that you are carrying insurance adequate to pay for the mess to be swept off the runway.
At Oban, you will be met by one or more people at whatever time you might reasonably expect to land. In the event of a mishap, help is immediately on hand, and somebody is there to call in the emergency services.
I know which level of service I am more comfortable with, even though I have routinely flown into the HIAL airports on an indemnity.
2D
Your out of hours indemnity gives you the right to crash and burn on a deserted airfield whenever you like, provided that you are carrying insurance adequate to pay for the mess to be swept off the runway.
At Oban, you will be met by one or more people at whatever time you might reasonably expect to land. In the event of a mishap, help is immediately on hand, and somebody is there to call in the emergency services.
I know which level of service I am more comfortable with, even though I have routinely flown into the HIAL airports on an indemnity.
2D
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All of the HIAL airports I have ever been too have been nice, polite, friendly people and (where available) good food.
But they are not open when a lot of people go flying (at weekends).
Oban ain't broke. I does not need fixing ....
(IMHO)
h-r
But they are not open when a lot of people go flying (at weekends).
Oban ain't broke. I does not need fixing ....
(IMHO)
h-r
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It might not be as bad as it seems
Paul runs a superb service at oban.
But the runway is getting very tired and the fact that its not licensed does cause problems with student flights, public cat aircraft and also many corp jets insurance dosn't cover them for unlicensed fields.
Also the local council has decided.... and if you know highland politics its pretty much a done job already. Proberly most are local hotel owners, tourist types etc etc and they have way to much interest in getting the area opened up to commercial flights.
HIAL really are pretty pro GA in the grand scope of things. And i should imagine they will encourage GA if not for just increasing the movement figures. Landing fees are reasonable, about 10 quid for a single 4 quid for a training flight. Anyone who has visited any of the smaller HIAL outposts like Barra, Kirkwall, Wick, Stornaway will say what a warm welcome you will get in GA.
What I hope happens is that Paul gets employed by HIAL as a fireman/FISO/ refueler/landing fee collector/ jammy dodger provider. They give him one of those fancy landrovers they have in barra for fire cover when there are no commercial aircraft inbound. And i can't really see why things can't continue as they are just now.
Apart from the GA and Pauls supporters I can only think of the old bastard in the caravan site who is going to oppose this move in the local area.
And don't think that because the airport is open you can get fuel.
Air BP have restricted hours for the avgas and you can sing for it if you want it during the commercial rush periods.
Personally I would be sad to see Paul chucked out on his ear. But something does need to be done with the runway soon. The locals need to be able to get more value for money out of the air field. So something has to change and HIAL has the resources and knowledge to make a small service airport work for Minimal cost to the British tax payer (because that is who will be paying the bills for Oban). I just hope that the powers that be realise what they have in Paul and use him to continue promoting Oban as the premier GA destination of the West Coast.
MJ
But the runway is getting very tired and the fact that its not licensed does cause problems with student flights, public cat aircraft and also many corp jets insurance dosn't cover them for unlicensed fields.
Also the local council has decided.... and if you know highland politics its pretty much a done job already. Proberly most are local hotel owners, tourist types etc etc and they have way to much interest in getting the area opened up to commercial flights.
HIAL really are pretty pro GA in the grand scope of things. And i should imagine they will encourage GA if not for just increasing the movement figures. Landing fees are reasonable, about 10 quid for a single 4 quid for a training flight. Anyone who has visited any of the smaller HIAL outposts like Barra, Kirkwall, Wick, Stornaway will say what a warm welcome you will get in GA.
What I hope happens is that Paul gets employed by HIAL as a fireman/FISO/ refueler/landing fee collector/ jammy dodger provider. They give him one of those fancy landrovers they have in barra for fire cover when there are no commercial aircraft inbound. And i can't really see why things can't continue as they are just now.
Apart from the GA and Pauls supporters I can only think of the old bastard in the caravan site who is going to oppose this move in the local area.
And don't think that because the airport is open you can get fuel.
Air BP have restricted hours for the avgas and you can sing for it if you want it during the commercial rush periods.
Personally I would be sad to see Paul chucked out on his ear. But something does need to be done with the runway soon. The locals need to be able to get more value for money out of the air field. So something has to change and HIAL has the resources and knowledge to make a small service airport work for Minimal cost to the British tax payer (because that is who will be paying the bills for Oban). I just hope that the powers that be realise what they have in Paul and use him to continue promoting Oban as the premier GA destination of the West Coast.
MJ
I can't help feel that Connel is a big place, with room for Paul's GA and refuelling operation, and HIAL providing infrastructure for air transport, and maybe even a GA club which isn't really there are the moment - and perhaps the two would benefit from each other's presence.
I think however that suggesting that Paul, having built up a successful business in his own right, should go and work for HIAL is a bit demeaning to the man.
G
I think however that suggesting that Paul, having built up a successful business in his own right, should go and work for HIAL is a bit demeaning to the man.
G
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paul is a great fellow, but I agree much needs to be done to improve the runway and he simply does not have the cash to do it (even if he sold G-OBAN !).
Let HIAL spend the money, I say.
Flyingscot
Let HIAL spend the money, I say.
Flyingscot
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's probably not a sticky because there's no good reason for it to be.
Oban is NOT under threat, despite the thread title. It is an airport the local politicians are committed to developing, not closing.
Oban is NOT under threat, despite the thread title. It is an airport the local politicians are committed to developing, not closing.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Posts: 5,068
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PW. Scottish ppl has it in a nutshell.
Also regarding airfields under threat etc, the ones you see at the top of the forum here will run thier course and after that there will be no more. I get a few people asking save this that and the other but cannot accomodate them all for obvious reasons.
Also have people complaining why they are there and not others, often quoting other fields. It is nothing to do with our mutual friend AB either, John has mailed me privately and asked for the stickies. But, as I say, after these I am not going to have any like this at all as stickies, it will be up to the original poster to keep it on the front page.
I also note, looking around, there are no 'stickies' on other forums like this regarding the two airfields mentioned.
I am all for saving airfields under threat and have, hopefully by sticking these posts, helped, or at least contribute something to saving them but no more when these run thier course I am afraid.
Also regarding airfields under threat etc, the ones you see at the top of the forum here will run thier course and after that there will be no more. I get a few people asking save this that and the other but cannot accomodate them all for obvious reasons.
Also have people complaining why they are there and not others, often quoting other fields. It is nothing to do with our mutual friend AB either, John has mailed me privately and asked for the stickies. But, as I say, after these I am not going to have any like this at all as stickies, it will be up to the original poster to keep it on the front page.
I also note, looking around, there are no 'stickies' on other forums like this regarding the two airfields mentioned.
I am all for saving airfields under threat and have, hopefully by sticking these posts, helped, or at least contribute something to saving them but no more when these run thier course I am afraid.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: London
Age: 39
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never been to Oban but we've got a guy in the club who flys from Glasgow and he raves about it.
Looks like a case of bringing unintentional attention to yourself by being too successful too quickly. Argyle & Bute Council probably think there's a buck to be made here!
Think on. 5 landings a day (1900/365=5.2) at £10 (AFE Flight Guide 2005) is hardly enough to leave any profit, even taking into account fuel profit, for reinvesting in facilities. Unfortunalty this investment is needed if commercialisation is the objective.
If you feel stongly in favour of Mr Keegans side then don't sit back and do nothing. Don't email the officials. Paper on their desk is what they know and can deal with. Write a good old fashioned letter in your own handwriting - usually more difficult to read therefore they take their time and absorb more. If you email you get an automated response and a quick drag and drop into the 'Oban' file! which will be archived every day to stop it being an irritant.
VD
Change is good - but lets think it through.
Looks like a case of bringing unintentional attention to yourself by being too successful too quickly. Argyle & Bute Council probably think there's a buck to be made here!
Think on. 5 landings a day (1900/365=5.2) at £10 (AFE Flight Guide 2005) is hardly enough to leave any profit, even taking into account fuel profit, for reinvesting in facilities. Unfortunalty this investment is needed if commercialisation is the objective.
If you feel stongly in favour of Mr Keegans side then don't sit back and do nothing. Don't email the officials. Paper on their desk is what they know and can deal with. Write a good old fashioned letter in your own handwriting - usually more difficult to read therefore they take their time and absorb more. If you email you get an automated response and a quick drag and drop into the 'Oban' file! which will be archived every day to stop it being an irritant.
VD
Change is good - but lets think it through.