Flight Acadamy Scotland
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Flight Acadamy Scotland
I'm hoping to start my ppl this spring and have been looking around at where I can do my training. I stay in Edinburgh but have been told that landing fees at edinburgh airport are very high. I found Flight Acadamy Scotland on the internet who are offering free landings, and have been over to Cumbernauld to have a look around.
I have to admit that a few alarm bells started ringing when I walked in the door. Other posts I have read on pprune make out that there is no money to be made in light aviation yet they have clearly invested alot of cash in their operation. If i'm going to part with several thousands of pounds to do my ppl i need to be confident that their not going to go bust and leave me with nothing. The other thing that worried me was their instructors . Looking at their website, none of them seems to have much experience and two of the three instructors got their ppls in the US - this is hardly a good advertisement for training in the UK!
If i'm going to go to the expense of learning to fluy, I want to be taught well. I want to go on to do a commercial licence, but have been told that this can be very hard work if you were not taught well in the first place.
Has anyone any experience of Flight acadamy Scotland? should I be cautious about training with them?
I have to admit that a few alarm bells started ringing when I walked in the door. Other posts I have read on pprune make out that there is no money to be made in light aviation yet they have clearly invested alot of cash in their operation. If i'm going to part with several thousands of pounds to do my ppl i need to be confident that their not going to go bust and leave me with nothing. The other thing that worried me was their instructors . Looking at their website, none of them seems to have much experience and two of the three instructors got their ppls in the US - this is hardly a good advertisement for training in the UK!
If i'm going to go to the expense of learning to fluy, I want to be taught well. I want to go on to do a commercial licence, but have been told that this can be very hard work if you were not taught well in the first place.
Has anyone any experience of Flight acadamy Scotland? should I be cautious about training with them?
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I've not had any experience with them but I think they are a fairly young school, so they may not have had many students yet. Few students means little available feedback.
I'm sure that they are opening two other schools in Scotland - possibly Edinburgh and Inverness.
How much are you looking to spend?
I'm sure that they are opening two other schools in Scotland - possibly Edinburgh and Inverness.
How much are you looking to spend?
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I've been told that somewhere around £5000 is about right, particularyly allowing for the Scottish weather disrupting training. I'm also concerned about paying up front. I've just had a look on the internet for other flying schools in central scotland and have found that I could pay £100 per hour (including instructor) elsewhere rather than coughing up for it all in one go. £8 per landing at Prestwick doesn't seem too bad and there instructors seem to have heaps of experience (airlines, RAF etc).
The flight acadamy has started looking less attractive.
The flight acadamy has started looking less attractive.
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Numpty I'm just in the process of doing my PPL at Edinburgh Flying Club and so will be happy to answer any questions. I started my PPL at the beginning of October last year and now have 47hrs TT and am just about ready for my skills test.
Edinburgh is a brilliant place to fly from. You get the expereince of operating from a busy airport, with loads of jets coming and going, this is a great RT confidence booster. You also get the experience of training from the smaller airfields as all circuit work is done at either fife or cumbernauld.
Yes you are right learning at Edinburgh will not be the cheapest option, but I looked at the pros and cons and decided that edinburgh was the best overall option. Its close (only a 15min drive from me, I live right in the centre of the city) so I can just pop out when the weathers good.
They are the friendliest bunch of guys you'll ever meet and I've enjoyed flying with them and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
-EDIT- Flight acadamy aren't coming to EDI as far as I know, the BAA have limited the airport to just one school, which is EFC
I think there other base is going to be Aberdeen.
Edinburgh is a brilliant place to fly from. You get the expereince of operating from a busy airport, with loads of jets coming and going, this is a great RT confidence booster. You also get the experience of training from the smaller airfields as all circuit work is done at either fife or cumbernauld.
Yes you are right learning at Edinburgh will not be the cheapest option, but I looked at the pros and cons and decided that edinburgh was the best overall option. Its close (only a 15min drive from me, I live right in the centre of the city) so I can just pop out when the weathers good.
They are the friendliest bunch of guys you'll ever meet and I've enjoyed flying with them and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
-EDIT- Flight acadamy aren't coming to EDI as far as I know, the BAA have limited the airport to just one school, which is EFC
I think there other base is going to be Aberdeen.
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Oh sorry, I did not realise they were looking for money upfront. I'd be weary, why are opening 3 clubs and asking for money upfront????
I fly from GFC it's a great club £98 per hour for the aircraft and £20 for the instructor, however landings are £19 for your first landing and £17 for the others (as long as it's in the same sortie)
I've flown down to Prestwick and they seem like a good outfit. I'll be going there for my CPL, ME/IR.
P.S. I paid around £8000 in total over 1 year.
Good Luck.
I fly from GFC it's a great club £98 per hour for the aircraft and £20 for the instructor, however landings are £19 for your first landing and £17 for the others (as long as it's in the same sortie)
I've flown down to Prestwick and they seem like a good outfit. I'll be going there for my CPL, ME/IR.
P.S. I paid around £8000 in total over 1 year.
Good Luck.
Yes - paying up front, without any clear guarantee (such as an independent escrow account) is dangerous and unreasonable - don't go there.
Whilst may of us, myself included, regularly advise against it for new pilots, given the Scottish weather had you considered doing a JAA PPL in the US (California or Florida usually) and then paying another £500-£1000 learning how to fly in British (Scottish!) airspace and weather when you get back (at wherever you are likely to base your private flying). It might well be cheaper and quicker.
G
Not flown at any Scottish school, so entirely neutral. But have flown around Scotland a lot, so know you'll not regret it in the long run.
Whilst may of us, myself included, regularly advise against it for new pilots, given the Scottish weather had you considered doing a JAA PPL in the US (California or Florida usually) and then paying another £500-£1000 learning how to fly in British (Scottish!) airspace and weather when you get back (at wherever you are likely to base your private flying). It might well be cheaper and quicker.
G
Not flown at any Scottish school, so entirely neutral. But have flown around Scotland a lot, so know you'll not regret it in the long run.
I'm not an instructor myself, but I've at-least one good friend who took a couple of goes before passing, and I'd be happy to recommend them to anybody as an instructor.
The fact is, it's a tough test, and he/she reached a pass standard before being let loose on students. I don't think personally that how long that took matters.
G
The fact is, it's a tough test, and he/she reached a pass standard before being let loose on students. I don't think personally that how long that took matters.
G
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I would not worry about the instructor, if he/she has now passed then s/he's fine - as long as s/he keeps high standards. It may well have been rumours from jealous staff from another school trying to steer you their way.
Edinburgh would be good for you, less travel = less stress. Closer to your home = you can get there at the drop of a hat.
Cumbernauld is only a few minutes away from Edinburgh and the zone entry/exit procedure will be good pratice for you.
I have no doubt that you could complete the PPL in say two months. If you complete all the PPL exams and can fly frequently then you'll be fine.
Edinburgh would be good for you, less travel = less stress. Closer to your home = you can get there at the drop of a hat.
Cumbernauld is only a few minutes away from Edinburgh and the zone entry/exit procedure will be good pratice for you.
I have no doubt that you could complete the PPL in say two months. If you complete all the PPL exams and can fly frequently then you'll be fine.
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Flyingnumpty - I would avoid Flight Academy Scotland if I were you. There are plenty of traditional clubs in Central Scotland that have a proven record of good instruction. And paying for your training as you go along means that you won't loose out if they go bust.
I don't know about Edinburgh Flying Club so couldn't advise, but there are people from Edinburgh at the Prestwick Flying Club who are happy to make the trip. It's a members' club with no one paying any salaries or taking a profit, so you'll not find cheaper flying rates anywhere else. Nice aircraft too, including a Bolkow Junior, Beagle Pup and Chipmunk (all available for ab initio instruction).
I don't know about Edinburgh Flying Club so couldn't advise, but there are people from Edinburgh at the Prestwick Flying Club who are happy to make the trip. It's a members' club with no one paying any salaries or taking a profit, so you'll not find cheaper flying rates anywhere else. Nice aircraft too, including a Bolkow Junior, Beagle Pup and Chipmunk (all available for ab initio instruction).
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2 months for a PPL in scotland is pretty unlikely. I've been doing my PPL full time since october and have only just reached test standard, and I had 50hrs gliding expereince to start with too.
It does depend on what your final aim is. I am going commercial after my PPL and so I liked the idea of flying from an international airport as it is great experience for flying around busy airspace. In total I think I'm going to have spent around £6000 for my PPL. Numpty feel free to PM me if you want to have a chat about Edinburgh flying club. I've got MSN too if you wanna chat on that.
It does depend on what your final aim is. I am going commercial after my PPL and so I liked the idea of flying from an international airport as it is great experience for flying around busy airspace. In total I think I'm going to have spent around £6000 for my PPL. Numpty feel free to PM me if you want to have a chat about Edinburgh flying club. I've got MSN too if you wanna chat on that.
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Blinkz, You did well to get to where you are, considering that you started on October. Cra$$y weather and taxiways that are not de-iced
When I was learning I had really good weather Feb/March '03 and I could easily have completed the 45 hours but as usual something came up - my job changed and I ended working during the day!
Where abouts are you going for the commercial training?
When I was learning I had really good weather Feb/March '03 and I could easily have completed the 45 hours but as usual something came up - my job changed and I ended working during the day!
Where abouts are you going for the commercial training?
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I have to agree with Blinkz about two months being a little ambitious. I got my PPL at Prestwick in four months, but that was over the summer months.
Flyingnumpy - learning to fly at a larger airport does help you develop confidence and experience of operating in the type of environment you'll find when you go commerical. Your R/T in paticular will be of a higher standard. ATC will treat you much better and are more likely to grant your requests if you come across professionally on the radio.
Another comment about Cumbernauld. I've always been concerned about its suitability for teaching circuits. In the event of an engine failure after take-off, there's just nowhere to go where you'll have much of a chance of landing safely. The runway is also very narrow, and whilst this forces you to keep to the centreline, it doesn't offer students any room for error when flying in strong crosswinds. From memory, there are also local noise restrictions in the circuit, which may limit the type of circuits that you can fly.
Regarding the instructor at FAS, I agree that you shouldn't necessarily judge him/her by his/her having failed the FI test a couple of times. Your comment about two of their instructors training in America personally causes me more concern, although I know that this is a very emotive subject that is best avoided on Pprune!
Flyingnumpy - learning to fly at a larger airport does help you develop confidence and experience of operating in the type of environment you'll find when you go commerical. Your R/T in paticular will be of a higher standard. ATC will treat you much better and are more likely to grant your requests if you come across professionally on the radio.
Another comment about Cumbernauld. I've always been concerned about its suitability for teaching circuits. In the event of an engine failure after take-off, there's just nowhere to go where you'll have much of a chance of landing safely. The runway is also very narrow, and whilst this forces you to keep to the centreline, it doesn't offer students any room for error when flying in strong crosswinds. From memory, there are also local noise restrictions in the circuit, which may limit the type of circuits that you can fly.
Regarding the instructor at FAS, I agree that you shouldn't necessarily judge him/her by his/her having failed the FI test a couple of times. Your comment about two of their instructors training in America personally causes me more concern, although I know that this is a very emotive subject that is best avoided on Pprune!
Last edited by Sassenach; 1st Mar 2005 at 14:12.
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flyingnumpty
Forgive me for saying this if it's not true, but your posts seem suspicious to me. Sound as though they've been made "to elicit certain reactions" - to quote the footnote on every page of PPRuNe.
For the record, I have no connection with Scotland, FAS or any other school
Forgive me for saying this if it's not true, but your posts seem suspicious to me. Sound as though they've been made "to elicit certain reactions" - to quote the footnote on every page of PPRuNe.
For the record, I have no connection with Scotland, FAS or any other school
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I've been called a few things, but never suspicious! Theres no hidden agenda in my postings - I just want to make the right decision before I spend my savings. Sorry if anything i've said makes anyone uncomfortable.
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Like has been said there are alot of schools in the area, all with pros and cons. You just have to decide exactly what you want from your training and see what suits you best.
Oh and the main reason we don't do circuits are EGPH is that we're not allowed to. But even if we were your right, I'd rather pay the cheaper ones at fife
Oh and the main reason we don't do circuits are EGPH is that we're not allowed to. But even if we were your right, I'd rather pay the cheaper ones at fife
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Couple of points that I can't help but make. Mainly cause I fancy stirring things up a bit.
First let me point out that this is not a dig at any school or FTO. Scotlands wx is as good or bad as anywhere else you'll might go. What did annoy me was the attitude of certain instructors with regard to what weather they might get off their arses and do some work. A PPL student should have been instructor accompanied into marginal weather on more than one occasion to give them confidence to tackle any bad weather they may encounter post PPL. By the time you have your shiny new licence, you must have an understanding of your own personal limits, be that cloudbase, crosswinds, vis whatever. This is doubly important if your banging round the Scotland where options are more limited compared to south of the border.
5 months for a full time PPL seems a tad on the steep side. I have seen someone through a full time PPL in 3 weeks, mid January, also in the wilds of Scotland. I could also give you a name of a fellow instructor who had one of his students pass in 2 weeks (although he had his exams already bagged and it was july) 0 to PPL. Although he may post on here soon as he is not know for being a quiet little wall flower. Scotland does not equal Bad Wx.
BTW, not suprised people fail the FI test in that part of the world. The guy who conducts the test is known for a more draconian approach. Mind you, when he passes you, you've definately earned the ticks in the boxes and to get the rating.
First let me point out that this is not a dig at any school or FTO. Scotlands wx is as good or bad as anywhere else you'll might go. What did annoy me was the attitude of certain instructors with regard to what weather they might get off their arses and do some work. A PPL student should have been instructor accompanied into marginal weather on more than one occasion to give them confidence to tackle any bad weather they may encounter post PPL. By the time you have your shiny new licence, you must have an understanding of your own personal limits, be that cloudbase, crosswinds, vis whatever. This is doubly important if your banging round the Scotland where options are more limited compared to south of the border.
5 months for a full time PPL seems a tad on the steep side. I have seen someone through a full time PPL in 3 weeks, mid January, also in the wilds of Scotland. I could also give you a name of a fellow instructor who had one of his students pass in 2 weeks (although he had his exams already bagged and it was july) 0 to PPL. Although he may post on here soon as he is not know for being a quiet little wall flower. Scotland does not equal Bad Wx.
BTW, not suprised people fail the FI test in that part of the world. The guy who conducts the test is known for a more draconian approach. Mind you, when he passes you, you've definately earned the ticks in the boxes and to get the rating.
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Ahhh, the old 'which flying school is best' thread. There is nothing like it to stir up a hornets nest of peoples comments, some honest and genuine and some just out to have a dig at their closest competitor.
Not wanting to become embroiled in the usual slagging match that this will inevitably turn into, I would offer you the following advice before choosing your school.
For each good, honest opinion of a flying school you will get on this forum, you are likely to get twice as much bad press about them. You should not make you decision based entirely on what you read here. It is after all a 'rumour network'.
I was in the same position as you last year and whilst I read all the usual threads on PPRUNE, nothing quite beats visiting the schools you are thinking about and if necessary having a trial lesson.
There are a lot of flying schools to choose from in our area and I am sure they all have some good and some bad points. A new flying school is bound to attract a barrage of bad comments as worried competitors strive to protect their market place. At the end of the day, choose which one offers you what YOU are looking for.
You comment that Flight Academy Scotland offers pay up-front packages. So do all schools. It doesn't mean you have to take that option and it certainly doesn't mean that the schools have financial problems just because they offer that option.
As far as I am concerned, good luck to Flight Academy Scotland, and indeed any new organisation that starts up. The more flying schools, the more choice and value for us the 'flying' public (hopefully!). If somebody is willing to invest in the GA industry way that FAS are then great! It can only be a good thing.
Good luck with your decision.
Not wanting to become embroiled in the usual slagging match that this will inevitably turn into, I would offer you the following advice before choosing your school.
For each good, honest opinion of a flying school you will get on this forum, you are likely to get twice as much bad press about them. You should not make you decision based entirely on what you read here. It is after all a 'rumour network'.
I was in the same position as you last year and whilst I read all the usual threads on PPRUNE, nothing quite beats visiting the schools you are thinking about and if necessary having a trial lesson.
There are a lot of flying schools to choose from in our area and I am sure they all have some good and some bad points. A new flying school is bound to attract a barrage of bad comments as worried competitors strive to protect their market place. At the end of the day, choose which one offers you what YOU are looking for.
You comment that Flight Academy Scotland offers pay up-front packages. So do all schools. It doesn't mean you have to take that option and it certainly doesn't mean that the schools have financial problems just because they offer that option.
As far as I am concerned, good luck to Flight Academy Scotland, and indeed any new organisation that starts up. The more flying schools, the more choice and value for us the 'flying' public (hopefully!). If somebody is willing to invest in the GA industry way that FAS are then great! It can only be a good thing.
Good luck with your decision.
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hello,
If your popping into cumbernauld, look at all 3 schools. I ended up doing my training with Leading Edge (next door to FAS and across the hall from CFS), no complaints from me. Done around 35hrs in 3 months, could have done more if i had the money!!!
Let us know what you choose and how you get on in the future, if you choose Cumbernauld perhaps I will see you around in the near future!
will
If your popping into cumbernauld, look at all 3 schools. I ended up doing my training with Leading Edge (next door to FAS and across the hall from CFS), no complaints from me. Done around 35hrs in 3 months, could have done more if i had the money!!!
Let us know what you choose and how you get on in the future, if you choose Cumbernauld perhaps I will see you around in the near future!
will
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I haven't read the whole thread but I think there is a significant inverse correlation between schools calling themselves "Academy" and how long it is before they vanish, with the deposits of any student careless enough to pay for training up front 
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Blinkz
If you have been at a flying school every day since October you should have a PPL by now unless you're struggling. I have seen a guy recently do it in 4 weeks, including bad weather days. Scotland can be a bugger, especially at this time of year. However there are also fantastic days where it's all CAVOK. Stable highs set in and you can get 4 or 5 cracking days.
Have heard great things about Prestwick also, and I did a CPL at Tayside and rate them highly, although they are very expensive. I would add Highland Flying School at Inverness to the list. It is a bit from Edinburgh, but not that much longer than Prestwick. But the weather is generally better, especially now. And if you're going to stay for a few days at a time It's a nice place to be. They are pretty good value also. Jaa PPL for £4k. Not sure what a NPPL is. And flying in the Highlands is awesome.
Cheers
SK
If you have been at a flying school every day since October you should have a PPL by now unless you're struggling. I have seen a guy recently do it in 4 weeks, including bad weather days. Scotland can be a bugger, especially at this time of year. However there are also fantastic days where it's all CAVOK. Stable highs set in and you can get 4 or 5 cracking days.
Have heard great things about Prestwick also, and I did a CPL at Tayside and rate them highly, although they are very expensive. I would add Highland Flying School at Inverness to the list. It is a bit from Edinburgh, but not that much longer than Prestwick. But the weather is generally better, especially now. And if you're going to stay for a few days at a time It's a nice place to be. They are pretty good value also. Jaa PPL for £4k. Not sure what a NPPL is. And flying in the Highlands is awesome.
Cheers
SK