Death of the Diesel?
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Crowthorne
Interesting discussion on Aero Diesels with lots of points covered and many miss conceptions.
As a recap there are about 8 Diesels in development with 3 on the market.
Thierlert
4 stroke, 4 cylinder modified car engines, liquid cooled, reduction gear box and harmonic damper.
135hp. Fast to market design. V8 300hp plus to come.
SMA, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder, new design, air cooled, high cooling drag,
low power to weight ratio. Due to high strength require to hold it together
because of the large power pulses and reverse torque from the prop.
Not really a sensible design from an engineer point of view. 235 hp
Wilksch, 2 stroke, new design, liquid cooled, novel ball joint little end in the piston,
through flow, air flow design, with poppet exhaust valves,
Inverted inline design. 3 cylinder is 120 hp. 4 cyl 160hp. 5 cyl 200hp.
Delta Hawk, V 4 2 stroke, piston ported intake and exhaust. Liquid cooled with 60% limp home mode on coolant lose.
160 and 200 hp models. Due on the market in 2005.
This engine is probably the most significant engine as it competes head on with an IO360
is a US design and cost less than the Lycoming.
It weight almost the same as an IO360, goes 25% further on similar fuel loads, full power to 14,000ft.
An SR20 with the 200hp version would be the plane for the 21st century. Ģ10 an hour for fuel with no tax. 1000nm range
Diesel Air, 2 stroke, opposed piston, 100 hp. Flying in airships. Good power to weight ratio.
Compact design with twin crank shafts. Liquid cooled.
They have a big order for UAV aircraft engines.
Zoche, 2 stroke, piston ported, radial, air cooled engine, with no electrics needed for starting and operation,
The 8 cylinder 300hp unit runs like an electric motor, perfectly balanced with very smooth power delivery, low frontal area.
Probably the best design of the lot, only trouble it seems to be in perpetual development.
Basically the best Diesels are 2 strokes, there are lots of advantages, both in smoother power delivery, cooling,
higher power output for the capacity and lower harmonics. All the 2 strokes have a combined turbo/supercharger unit
and standard plain bearing bottom ends. Not to be confused with 2 stroke lawn mower engines.
They can go from idle to full power in 1 second as well.
Note the most powerful fuel efficient engines in the world, are Marine 2 stroke diesels, about 100,000 hp.
As a recap there are about 8 Diesels in development with 3 on the market.
Thierlert
4 stroke, 4 cylinder modified car engines, liquid cooled, reduction gear box and harmonic damper.
135hp. Fast to market design. V8 300hp plus to come.
SMA, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder, new design, air cooled, high cooling drag,
low power to weight ratio. Due to high strength require to hold it together
because of the large power pulses and reverse torque from the prop.
Not really a sensible design from an engineer point of view. 235 hp
Wilksch, 2 stroke, new design, liquid cooled, novel ball joint little end in the piston,
through flow, air flow design, with poppet exhaust valves,
Inverted inline design. 3 cylinder is 120 hp. 4 cyl 160hp. 5 cyl 200hp.
Delta Hawk, V 4 2 stroke, piston ported intake and exhaust. Liquid cooled with 60% limp home mode on coolant lose.
160 and 200 hp models. Due on the market in 2005.
This engine is probably the most significant engine as it competes head on with an IO360
is a US design and cost less than the Lycoming.
It weight almost the same as an IO360, goes 25% further on similar fuel loads, full power to 14,000ft.
An SR20 with the 200hp version would be the plane for the 21st century. Ģ10 an hour for fuel with no tax. 1000nm range
Diesel Air, 2 stroke, opposed piston, 100 hp. Flying in airships. Good power to weight ratio.
Compact design with twin crank shafts. Liquid cooled.
They have a big order for UAV aircraft engines.
Zoche, 2 stroke, piston ported, radial, air cooled engine, with no electrics needed for starting and operation,
The 8 cylinder 300hp unit runs like an electric motor, perfectly balanced with very smooth power delivery, low frontal area.
Probably the best design of the lot, only trouble it seems to be in perpetual development.
Basically the best Diesels are 2 strokes, there are lots of advantages, both in smoother power delivery, cooling,
higher power output for the capacity and lower harmonics. All the 2 strokes have a combined turbo/supercharger unit
and standard plain bearing bottom ends. Not to be confused with 2 stroke lawn mower engines.
They can go from idle to full power in 1 second as well.
Note the most powerful fuel efficient engines in the world, are Marine 2 stroke diesels, about 100,000 hp.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,359
Likes: 0
From: Midlands
"Forget diesels, say goodbye to those 1950's avgas burners, the future has one moving part:"
http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/products.html
Aquired from another place.
Rod1
http://www.innodyn.com/aviation/products.html
Aquired from another place.
Rod1
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: Sweden
I can't believe I've missed this. It sounds almost too good to be true, but why not, it's 2005 after all. If they can live up to the low maintenance claims together with the high TBO and low price (it's dirt cheap for a turbine!) this could well be the next technical leap in aviation development.
Hope we get there before I sprout my own wings.
Hope we get there before I sprout my own wings.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Brazil
the mogas is not the future
I would love to believe that mogas can be the future, but it canīt.
For a reason: the mogas varies from country to country.
GA would still depends on a specific fuel, a special mogas.
For example: here in Brazil the Rotax engines cannot use mogas, because it contains 25% of ethanol. We would need a special no-ethanol gasoline. I know it also happens in other places.
The only worldwide stardarized fuel is QAV, so it's the way to follow.
As there are just a few engine supliers, and it would be impossible to build a spefic version for each marketplace or resptrict an aircraft to a specific region, I can't see the future with a fuel that is not worldwide stardarized.
For a reason: the mogas varies from country to country.
GA would still depends on a specific fuel, a special mogas.
For example: here in Brazil the Rotax engines cannot use mogas, because it contains 25% of ethanol. We would need a special no-ethanol gasoline. I know it also happens in other places.
The only worldwide stardarized fuel is QAV, so it's the way to follow.
As there are just a few engine supliers, and it would be impossible to build a spefic version for each marketplace or resptrict an aircraft to a specific region, I can't see the future with a fuel that is not worldwide stardarized.
