UK Multi IR and N Reg A/C

[rosewellian]

I have CAA Multi IR and want to know if I can legally use it on N reg Multi engine a/c in UK and European airspace.

Anybody know if its a thumbs up?

[2Donkeys]

Thumbs up in the UK, thumbs down outside the UK unless you happen to have an FAA licence with IR.

The FARs which govern your operation of the aircraft require that the PIC has a licence issued by the US, or by the country in which the aircraft is being operated. For these purposes, a JAR licence is issued where it is issued and not in "Europe" as a whole.

2D

[Chilli Monster]

Partial thumbs down I'm afraid

14 CFR 61.3

a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—

(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used

So - you can operate it in the UK, but not outside

[rosewellian]

Thanks for the swift responses, I do also have an unrestricted FAA license endorsed Single /Instrument but have not completed an FAA multi checkride so I guess its a thumbs down outside the UK until get round to doing it.

[neutron]

I also understood that a UK issued IMC rating would not be valid and that the N reg foreign licence concession would be restricted to VFR only.

Am I correct?

[2Donkeys]

Neutron

It would be fair to say that not everybody agrees on that particular point.

I take the FARs as the governing rules on the operation on N registered aircraft. The FARs tell us that nobody may operate an N-registered aircraft under IFR unless they hold an Instrument Rating.

That is a rule conceived in the US, and one which still makes a lot of sense in most other countries which also lack an IMC rating.

Once in the UK, the implications are:

a) that the IMC rating is not valid in an N-reg for the purposes of flight under IFR; and

b) that to fly at night (other than under SVFR) in an N-reg, an IR is required.


2D

[Dusty_B]

As a guide, the saying goes:

"Two out of the Three"

Where at least two of the following must be from the same state:

* Licence
* Registration
* Location

[2Donkeys]

The guide is frequently incorrect Dusty_B, and those perpetuating it, particularly those referring to it as the "2 out of 3 rule" should be toasted slowly over a roaring fire.



2D

[IO540]

2D how come the 2 out of 3 rule appears to be correct, as a picture of *minimum* privileges? Around Europe at least.

Incidentally I have it in writing from the CAA that the IMC Rating is valid in any reg aircraft. They add, correctly, that it is up to the state of registry what the IFR privileges are.

[bookworm]

OK, let's take the three cases:

1) Licence, Reg match, Location different
FAA licence, N-reg aircraft, France
OK

2) Licence, Location match, Reg different
DGAC JAR-FCL licence, N-reg aircraft, France
Not permitted

3) Location and Reg match, Licence different
FAA licence, F-reg, France
Not permitted

It would be more logical to call it the licence-must-match-registration rule, wouldn't it?

[Dusty_B]

Hmmm... but you've used France for all three cases. The French hardly count
(And as for case 3, does that go for JAR licences as well?)

Case (2) kind-of applies in the States too: You can't just jump in a plane; you need to hold an airmans certificate (?), right?

[bookworm]

If the rule is not broadly applicable, what's the point of calling it a rule?

In the UK, none of the three have to match for private day VFR flight. Elsewhere, as I illustrated, "two out of three" is not sufficient.

Toast it. I'm sure 2D can recommend a suitable wine to accompany.

[2Donkeys]

Do we think that Dusty_B could be characterised as having beef-like flesh or is he more fish-like?