Shoreham Airport for sale
niknak
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Shoreham Airport for sale
Ive posted the same thing on Airline,Airports and Routes Forum, but I think that the post is just as relavant on here, so I'd be grateful if the mod's would allow it to stay put, and possibly consider giving it sticky status if appropriate.
Shoreham Airport is advertised for sale in this weeks Flight International Magazine.
The advert states that the airport produces a tenanted income of c. £840K, which plus landing fees, I suspect is insufficiant to cover the costs of the airport as it runs at the moment.
Correct me if I am wrong, but i suspect that the joint owners (Brighton & Hove City, and Worthing Borough Council) chip in the rest using rate payers money, and are now under pressure to put that cash to "better use".
I've no idea how much the 97ha (240acres) of airport would cost on the open market, but I cannot see that anyone other than an investment banker (asset stripper) would have the cash to buy the airport, sit on the investment and keep it running as it does at present, and in the medium to long term, sell parcels of land off for more profitable (non avaition) uses.
Any other buyer would have to look to either,
1 - Carry out immediate development to raise the revenue income, (although the advert states that there is "potential for development" it doesn't mention the vociferous anti airport lobby who have the ear of the planning authority in the area).
Or,
2 - Buy the place as it is, and look to cut costs at every conceivable angle.
Either way, the airport and it's many users would suffer, and IMHO it wouldn't be long before it was a building site.
Shoreham Airport is advertised for sale in this weeks Flight International Magazine.
The advert states that the airport produces a tenanted income of c. £840K, which plus landing fees, I suspect is insufficiant to cover the costs of the airport as it runs at the moment.
Correct me if I am wrong, but i suspect that the joint owners (Brighton & Hove City, and Worthing Borough Council) chip in the rest using rate payers money, and are now under pressure to put that cash to "better use".
I've no idea how much the 97ha (240acres) of airport would cost on the open market, but I cannot see that anyone other than an investment banker (asset stripper) would have the cash to buy the airport, sit on the investment and keep it running as it does at present, and in the medium to long term, sell parcels of land off for more profitable (non avaition) uses.
Any other buyer would have to look to either,
1 - Carry out immediate development to raise the revenue income, (although the advert states that there is "potential for development" it doesn't mention the vociferous anti airport lobby who have the ear of the planning authority in the area).
Or,
2 - Buy the place as it is, and look to cut costs at every conceivable angle.
Either way, the airport and it's many users would suffer, and IMHO it wouldn't be long before it was a building site.
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Sadly this isn`t a surprise. The airport manager has been pushing this bit of empire building for years.
Just need to look at the helicopter training area mysteriously in line with the proposed runway.
It doesn`t look good as either they`ll try and turn it into Gatwick South with associated prices or it will be given over to housing.
Hopefully via the existing airfield defence organisations we can get our voice heard and do something.
Its the last green space on that part of the South Coast
So much damage from over ambitious ideas
Just need to look at the helicopter training area mysteriously in line with the proposed runway.
It doesn`t look good as either they`ll try and turn it into Gatwick South with associated prices or it will be given over to housing.
Hopefully via the existing airfield defence organisations we can get our voice heard and do something.
Its the last green space on that part of the South Coast
So much damage from over ambitious ideas
Last edited by Rood; 25th Jan 2005 at 08:23.
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This one has been openly on the cards for years. I don't think the council has any intention of allowing it to close.
The basic problem is that no well maintained GA airport (and Shoreham definitely is well maintained, as well as having superb ATC) can live off GA operations alone.
IMHO a big historical mistake was to allow an unrestricted number of flying schools to set up, ensuring that none of them has enough business to make money and is able to afford the modern planes needed to attract the affluent customers which Sussex should be full of.
There is also very limited hangarage which is why many other airfields, even really boggy bumpy grass ones, have a bigger collection of classy owner aircraft based there. Nobody will park something decent outside by choice.
Politically, Shoreham is squeezed between the NIMBYs (whose stupidity was well demonstrated by the "stop 747 jumbos" compaign when the original hard runway was being debated - as if a 747 could land in 1100m) and their desire to increase their house values by closing the airport down, the need to attract more high-value traffic, and the movements cap which presumably is an old deal between the council and the protesters.
I don't think anybody really believes they can get BAE 146-type planes in there, because Gatwick is just up the road. But they've got to do something! The proposed wider runway with ILS would be a major plus for larger (but not noisier) traffic, as well as those presently based there, because the present 20 MDH is next to useless relative to the commonly prevailing weather and the nearby terrain presents a real danger. On days like today, 1000ft cloudbase, almost nobody is flying.
The basic problem is that no well maintained GA airport (and Shoreham definitely is well maintained, as well as having superb ATC) can live off GA operations alone.
IMHO a big historical mistake was to allow an unrestricted number of flying schools to set up, ensuring that none of them has enough business to make money and is able to afford the modern planes needed to attract the affluent customers which Sussex should be full of.
There is also very limited hangarage which is why many other airfields, even really boggy bumpy grass ones, have a bigger collection of classy owner aircraft based there. Nobody will park something decent outside by choice.
Politically, Shoreham is squeezed between the NIMBYs (whose stupidity was well demonstrated by the "stop 747 jumbos" compaign when the original hard runway was being debated - as if a 747 could land in 1100m) and their desire to increase their house values by closing the airport down, the need to attract more high-value traffic, and the movements cap which presumably is an old deal between the council and the protesters.
I don't think anybody really believes they can get BAE 146-type planes in there, because Gatwick is just up the road. But they've got to do something! The proposed wider runway with ILS would be a major plus for larger (but not noisier) traffic, as well as those presently based there, because the present 20 MDH is next to useless relative to the commonly prevailing weather and the nearby terrain presents a real danger. On days like today, 1000ft cloudbase, almost nobody is flying.
Last edited by IO540; 25th Jan 2005 at 09:30.
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Guys,
IMO Shoreham's biggest downfall is the flying clubs. They come and go more often than the instructors in them. When I finished the CPL portion of my training about 7 years ago It was a lovely little friendly field. I now go back and it feels like a shopping mall. With "Conference rooms" and you can even get married there
When I asked why the club I first learned to fly with was situated I was told "Oh they have moved to Terminal Two - Next to the restaurant" TERMINAL TWO?! its a flipping GA field.
None of the instructors I knew are there anymore (to be expected really, I see one of them at work regularly) and the whole atmosphere felt like one big, heartless, office block. People there are no longer interested in flying for the love of it. The instructors only seem to be interested in how to get in the airlines and the students mainly seem to be people on 40 minute trial lessons
I sat in the club chatting for a day last summer and 3 trial lessons went through, all of them asked about training in America at the end....funnily enough it was just after they saw the price list
Its a lovely field as long as you are in the aircraft, it looks beautiful from above, it even looks nice on taxi. The ATC are the most friendly and accommodating I can think of, but once you step out onto the tarmac and into the "corporate" end its just horrible. Even the Airshow was awful (I'm talking about on the ground, it seemed to be about 1/100th of its usual size. Flying displays were excellent as always)
Oh and I have hidden all the landing fee and fuel receipts from the other half...I thought it was probably best!
Its a shame its up for sale but it probably won't make a difference to anything. They'll just probably end up with 5 "terminal's" before Heathrow
EzY
IMO Shoreham's biggest downfall is the flying clubs. They come and go more often than the instructors in them. When I finished the CPL portion of my training about 7 years ago It was a lovely little friendly field. I now go back and it feels like a shopping mall. With "Conference rooms" and you can even get married there
When I asked why the club I first learned to fly with was situated I was told "Oh they have moved to Terminal Two - Next to the restaurant" TERMINAL TWO?! its a flipping GA field.
None of the instructors I knew are there anymore (to be expected really, I see one of them at work regularly) and the whole atmosphere felt like one big, heartless, office block. People there are no longer interested in flying for the love of it. The instructors only seem to be interested in how to get in the airlines and the students mainly seem to be people on 40 minute trial lessons
I sat in the club chatting for a day last summer and 3 trial lessons went through, all of them asked about training in America at the end....funnily enough it was just after they saw the price list
Its a lovely field as long as you are in the aircraft, it looks beautiful from above, it even looks nice on taxi. The ATC are the most friendly and accommodating I can think of, but once you step out onto the tarmac and into the "corporate" end its just horrible. Even the Airshow was awful (I'm talking about on the ground, it seemed to be about 1/100th of its usual size. Flying displays were excellent as always)
Oh and I have hidden all the landing fee and fuel receipts from the other half...I thought it was probably best!
Its a shame its up for sale but it probably won't make a difference to anything. They'll just probably end up with 5 "terminal's" before Heathrow
EzY
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Exactly, what happens when you allow uncontrolled expansion of training operations.
There's always somebody who thinks they can make money in it, so they plough a few hundred k into yet another flying school, operating the same ancient planes. Occassionally they get something better but they all advertise in the same papers (e.g. the free Friday Ad handout, widely read in the local council estates
) as everybody else before them. So, yes, they get plenty of "trial lessons" (from the local council estate). The ATPL hour builder instructors are just passing through; very occassionally you get a good one. Then it goes bust, roughly one each year.
I don't know the present number but recently there were eight of them, all fixed wing PPL training.
The landing fee is 12 quid - very cheap. I paid £49 at Cardiff recently. The fuel is expensive, but then so is flying.
"Terminal 2" is the name of a restaurant building. It's not a terminal of any sort.
There's always somebody who thinks they can make money in it, so they plough a few hundred k into yet another flying school, operating the same ancient planes. Occassionally they get something better but they all advertise in the same papers (e.g. the free Friday Ad handout, widely read in the local council estates
) as everybody else before them. So, yes, they get plenty of "trial lessons" (from the local council estate). The ATPL hour builder instructors are just passing through; very occassionally you get a good one. Then it goes bust, roughly one each year.I don't know the present number but recently there were eight of them, all fixed wing PPL training.
The landing fee is 12 quid - very cheap. I paid £49 at Cardiff recently. The fuel is expensive, but then so is flying.
"Terminal 2" is the name of a restaurant building. It's not a terminal of any sort.
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EZY and IOM, dudes you two turnips have just rubbished most of the instructors at SHM, most of us have had to move on due to money and low wages and I resent that you think most instructor gods! are just hrs builders, some, most enjoy and give back and put in lots of time and effort.
And we get to shag students too...
There are some real good instructors full time carrier types at shoreham, bear that in mind next time you fly over SHM in your heavy metal willy extension, I do...
Love the hasher xxx
And we get to shag students too...
There are some real good instructors full time carrier types at shoreham, bear that in mind next time you fly over SHM in your heavy metal willy extension, I do...
Love the hasher xxx
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No disagreement on the student shagging Hasher - it's a well known fringe benefit
The way things are going at airlines, one will probably get more shags before getting it (the ATPL I mean) than afterwards!
The way things are going at airlines, one will probably get more shags before getting it (the ATPL I mean) than afterwards!
It seems strange that the local councils have arrived at this decision now. I know that around 14 years ago there was an idea to build a massive sports complex on the land to the North of the airport, but in those days the Airport was not as busy as it is today, nor was it as 'all weather' as it lacked the hard taxiway to the northern end of the runway.
Are there any interested buyers from the companies based there such as Transair?
I don't see what is wrong with having conference facilities, weddings etc at the airport, providing they are producing a positive income that is used to improve the airport for the flying community. If these facilities can attract people to the airport to pay good money, and give the visitors an opportunity to see the varied aviation companies on the airport surely that is positive?
Now then, what are the winning lottery numbers this week and next
Are there any interested buyers from the companies based there such as Transair?
I don't see what is wrong with having conference facilities, weddings etc at the airport, providing they are producing a positive income that is used to improve the airport for the flying community. If these facilities can attract people to the airport to pay good money, and give the visitors an opportunity to see the varied aviation companies on the airport surely that is positive?
Now then, what are the winning lottery numbers this week and next
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I can't afford to drive out to Goodwood
Aargh not again, never been the same since Miles sold the place. Dear old Cecil will be turning in his grave. The trouble is that land is just too expensive down here. It must be galling to the owners to be sitting on several million in prime building land. Look what happened to the Albion! Does anyone know if Mr H. was ever associated with the Seagulls? Just curious.
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Before this thread gets diverted into sleazing about students the real threat this poses needs considering.
Its true that Shoreham faces many pressures but a lot more could have been done with what it already has !
The continuous cycle of the airport encouraging a new Super Club to setup every year followed by the inevitable crash (think ACE, Premiair, Southern) is partly to blame. Trying to wipe out the little clubs (who survive longer) just ends up with the airport losing money to yet more bad debts. Any fool could have seen this was the likely outcome. Maybe it was all part of a plan ?
There are many thriving businesses on the airport as well as training schools for pilots and student engineers. If they`d been nurtured properly and better commercial management made of the property portfolio who knows how better things would be.
GA airfields do face a tough future but better management of their assets would make survival more likely.
No business does well by ignoring its core business, which at Shoreham is the flying schools and students who pay the high fuel costs and landing fees. But thats what it feels like from the user end
So much more could have been done at Shoreham before now with innovative management. However it seems that wasn`t done. Real reasons can only be guessed at.....
Its true that Shoreham faces many pressures but a lot more could have been done with what it already has !
The continuous cycle of the airport encouraging a new Super Club to setup every year followed by the inevitable crash (think ACE, Premiair, Southern) is partly to blame. Trying to wipe out the little clubs (who survive longer) just ends up with the airport losing money to yet more bad debts. Any fool could have seen this was the likely outcome. Maybe it was all part of a plan ?
There are many thriving businesses on the airport as well as training schools for pilots and student engineers. If they`d been nurtured properly and better commercial management made of the property portfolio who knows how better things would be.
GA airfields do face a tough future but better management of their assets would make survival more likely.
No business does well by ignoring its core business, which at Shoreham is the flying schools and students who pay the high fuel costs and landing fees. But thats what it feels like from the user end
So much more could have been done at Shoreham before now with innovative management. However it seems that wasn`t done. Real reasons can only be guessed at.....
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Guys, before you all go off on one, isn't Shoreham at sea level and doesn't it flood quite easily? If you were to sink footings into the east side, you would have problems with water. I believe there are also pumping systems used to drain the field. I may be wrong but it's only what i've been told. I have been there when heavy rains fell and the field is under a few inches of water until it drains away, slowly!! Would you want to live there?
As for training schools, a couple have new premises and one operator even has a new hangar built with extra, rented out, office space. They must have some investment from somewhere.
As already stated, the controllers there are some of the friendliest/professional I have ever had the pleasure to talk to. Just hope Shoreham survives for the benefit of all the GA pilots out there.
As for training schools, a couple have new premises and one operator even has a new hangar built with extra, rented out, office space. They must have some investment from somewhere.
As already stated, the controllers there are some of the friendliest/professional I have ever had the pleasure to talk to. Just hope Shoreham survives for the benefit of all the GA pilots out there.
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The local authorities that own the a/p are very clear they don't want it to close.
Yes there is a lot of purpose built drainage, assisted by pumps, and that (together with the hard runway) is why it doesn't flood to the point of being unusable like e.g. Goodwood occassionally does.
Yes there is a lot of purpose built drainage, assisted by pumps, and that (together with the hard runway) is why it doesn't flood to the point of being unusable like e.g. Goodwood occassionally does.
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Talking of all these schools going under, I started flying at southern flying centre few years back, then they moved into the main terminal via a lorry in the car park! if they are around still anyone know what instructors they have?
Would be real shame if Shoreham lost the friendlyness that it used to have. And i agree with the ATC being really helpful and patient when making my first calls!
Flyboy
Would be real shame if Shoreham lost the friendlyness that it used to have. And i agree with the ATC being really helpful and patient when making my first calls!
Flyboy
