Costs of owning a plane
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Costs of owning a plane
I have just embarked on the long (and rocky?) road to (hopefully!) achieving my PPL. Supposing I'm successful, and decide to splash out say, £70K on a 152/172, PA 28 or similar, what sort of costs can I expect with regard to regular maintenance, insurance, parking or hangerage at an "average" air strip (if there is such a thing). Sorry if this is a well exercised subject on this forum, but I've only just registered.
Your thoughts would be very welcome
Your thoughts would be very welcome
I have seen it crop up a few times on this forum and a search might reveal the answers that you need. However, I do remember reading an interview with someone lately who had started flying in the thirties and he was asked how much it cost in those days to own and operate an aircraft, his answer was, "Exactly the same as today, everything you've got."
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
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Then owning a plane is a bit like owning a boat!. I've got a 37' yacht kept in a Solent Marina - true cost of ownership is around £9/10000 pa (£6400 marina fees), and I guess owning a small plane runs out at the same sort of figure?? . Like, boating, I'm sure plane ownership does not bear too close a scrutiny of the costs involved. I sort of hope I'm not going to get too passionate about flying, but the prospect of that does not look too good so far!! However, I've got to achieve my licence first......!
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I run a 152 solely for my use and share a twin. The 152 costs me around £12k a year and I fly around 350hrs a year.
My hangar costs are cheap as I am a member of an excellant club and my insurance is cheap as a result of high hours and lots of little entries on my licences.
But its like the various cars I own and have owned, if you have to ask how much it costs to run then you probably cant afford it!
You have to fly a lot of hour and be able to write of the expenditure withoit loosing sleep to run an aircraft on your own and in most cases even as a syndicate.
It does equate to the costs of running most of the boats I have owned.
Flying is not cheap but is compulsive!
My hangar costs are cheap as I am a member of an excellant club and my insurance is cheap as a result of high hours and lots of little entries on my licences.
But its like the various cars I own and have owned, if you have to ask how much it costs to run then you probably cant afford it!
You have to fly a lot of hour and be able to write of the expenditure withoit loosing sleep to run an aircraft on your own and in most cases even as a syndicate.
It does equate to the costs of running most of the boats I have owned.
Flying is not cheap but is compulsive!
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I'd guessed the costs would be around the same as the boat. When I owned motor cruisers instead of a sailing boat, the costs per annum were £17000! Mind, 350 hours is quite a lot. Like many things I've had/done, if you have to ask, you can't afford it, but I'm just trying to get a relative figure.
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Mmmm. I own 2 Pitts Specials - insurance is basically £200/mnth for the brace. Maintenance and licensing is £60/mnth fot two. If anything breaks then that's extra - so I allow another £60/mnth.
As I can only fly one at a time - I work on 25 hrs costing me an oil change and fuel. That equates to a grand.
Go figure....
As I can only fly one at a time - I work on 25 hrs costing me an oil change and fuel. That equates to a grand.
Go figure....
Come now. It may always cost all that you've got but it doesn't have to be astronomic - surely it depends on how you do it and what you want.
A PFA type at a little field with reasonable hangarage ain't gonna cost anything like the figures that you're throwing around.
A PFA type at a little field with reasonable hangarage ain't gonna cost anything like the figures that you're throwing around.
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At the other end of the spectrum both in terms of performance and cost is my little aeroplane.
Disclaimer ... My VP2 has been offline for nearly two years under the loose term of restoration. If the cost of that is taken into account the costs mount, but presuming we're starting with a good flying example of such an aeroplane, ie VP, Luton Minor, FRED ect and even some of the small two seaters such as Jodels ect, then ....
Hangarage, mine costs £25/mth (shared £50 with another aircraft for strip and homebuilt hangar). I'm the farm manager and set it up, so it's an artificial cost. Figure more like £200/mth for farm strip? Self maintenance fixing things as you go works for me and providing nothing major needs doing amounts to perhaps a couple of hundred a year. Insurance, I wasn't insured but will be as we all will. Last quote £500/yr third party only. Permit renewal with inspection is also around £200/yr when all done and dusted.
Much much cheaper and more affordable, but not always the type of flying people want. It's just a comparison.
SS:ok
Disclaimer ... My VP2 has been offline for nearly two years under the loose term of restoration. If the cost of that is taken into account the costs mount, but presuming we're starting with a good flying example of such an aeroplane, ie VP, Luton Minor, FRED ect and even some of the small two seaters such as Jodels ect, then ....
Hangarage, mine costs £25/mth (shared £50 with another aircraft for strip and homebuilt hangar). I'm the farm manager and set it up, so it's an artificial cost. Figure more like £200/mth for farm strip? Self maintenance fixing things as you go works for me and providing nothing major needs doing amounts to perhaps a couple of hundred a year. Insurance, I wasn't insured but will be as we all will. Last quote £500/yr third party only. Permit renewal with inspection is also around £200/yr when all done and dusted.
Much much cheaper and more affordable, but not always the type of flying people want. It's just a comparison.
SS:ok
There is a body of opion that if it flies, floats, or (I forget what else, but think it began with f too), it's generally cheaper to rent or share.
Personally I compromise. I have a share in a big syndicate running a PA28 - that costs me roughly half what it would to rent a similar aeroplane, with the huge advantage of being able to take it away for up to 3 days at a time.
For fun, cheap, local flying I own a microlight. That costs me about £500pa whatever I do with it, and adds about another £13/hr in direct operating costs - so around £1k pa for 40ish hours of flying.
Running a high value permit aeroplane, or virtually any CofA aeroplane is fine - if you are flying the sort of hours people like bose-x are. Otherwise join or setup a syndicate, better to join one since other people have made all the mistakes already and you can learn from them.
G
Personally I compromise. I have a share in a big syndicate running a PA28 - that costs me roughly half what it would to rent a similar aeroplane, with the huge advantage of being able to take it away for up to 3 days at a time.
For fun, cheap, local flying I own a microlight. That costs me about £500pa whatever I do with it, and adds about another £13/hr in direct operating costs - so around £1k pa for 40ish hours of flying.
Running a high value permit aeroplane, or virtually any CofA aeroplane is fine - if you are flying the sort of hours people like bose-x are. Otherwise join or setup a syndicate, better to join one since other people have made all the mistakes already and you can learn from them.
G
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Most people fool themselves as to the total cost of running their aircraft. Reality makes frightening reading!
My Jodel cost £6399.25 in 2004 for 118 hours. The cost in 2003 was £5404.69 for 88 hours.
My Jodel cost £6399.25 in 2004 for 118 hours. The cost in 2003 was £5404.69 for 88 hours.
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I remember having this conversation with 3 other couples at dinner one night. We had a plane-owner (me), a guy with a 36 footer (boat!!), a golfer and a chap with 2 hunters (four legs, not one Avon). In the end we all spent about the same amount per annum but the amount of hours sailed, hunted, golfed or flown were different.
Just for reference my Airtourer (2-seat 115 hp on a C of A) cost me £3335 for 37 hrs in 2003 an "Annual" year and £4362 last year for 31 hrs in a "C of A" year. It's a high hourly rate but nothing beats having your own wings available when YOU want it not when the group rules say you might be able to have it. And you can't discount pride of ownership whether it's a little single or a twin with all the bells and whistles.
As others have said if you can nearly afford it "go for it" and I don't think you'll regret it, I never have.
Just for reference my Airtourer (2-seat 115 hp on a C of A) cost me £3335 for 37 hrs in 2003 an "Annual" year and £4362 last year for 31 hrs in a "C of A" year. It's a high hourly rate but nothing beats having your own wings available when YOU want it not when the group rules say you might be able to have it. And you can't discount pride of ownership whether it's a little single or a twin with all the bells and whistles.
As others have said if you can nearly afford it "go for it" and I don't think you'll regret it, I never have.
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These are the costs for my a/c
TB09 (Tampico) 160hp 95-100kt cruise Private C of A
Fixed (ish) Costs
Insurance 1800
Parking 1250 (Includes landing fees)
Maint in non STAR Year 1000
Maint in STAR Year 3500 ( one hopes)
Non-STAR year probably rounds up to about £5000 if you include some engine fund costs.
Then you have fuel/oil cost of about £35 an hour .
So, if you fly 25 hours per annum then it's costing £228 per hour in a non-STAR year.
Of course, find another three (or more) like-minded souls or fly more and then divide your fixed costs accordingly. Could work out about £80-90 (or less) for 25 hours.
By the way...you have one big advantage with your boat....you can sleep in it when the other half throws you out for grossly outrageous expenditure.....
Caveat: These costs are for a "no problem" year..if there is such a thing
Wings, landing gear, engines, avionics all go wrong from time to time............
So why would anyone run their own plane? 'coz it's theirs!!.
TB09 (Tampico) 160hp 95-100kt cruise Private C of A
Fixed (ish) Costs
Insurance 1800
Parking 1250 (Includes landing fees)
Maint in non STAR Year 1000
Maint in STAR Year 3500 ( one hopes)
Non-STAR year probably rounds up to about £5000 if you include some engine fund costs.
Then you have fuel/oil cost of about £35 an hour .
So, if you fly 25 hours per annum then it's costing £228 per hour in a non-STAR year.
Of course, find another three (or more) like-minded souls or fly more and then divide your fixed costs accordingly. Could work out about £80-90 (or less) for 25 hours.
By the way...you have one big advantage with your boat....you can sleep in it when the other half throws you out for grossly outrageous expenditure.....
Caveat: These costs are for a "no problem" year..if there is such a thing
Wings, landing gear, engines, avionics all go wrong from time to time............
So why would anyone run their own plane? 'coz it's theirs!!.
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somebody will always claim that there flying costs next to nothing.
As I recall Stik you fly from your own strip in permit aircraft and not many hours. Even your flight into Leicester on Saturday had a free landing after you picked up fuel as I recall! Those of us that have the priviledge of there own strip and hangar can save some money.
The original question was about the cost of running a spam can. Insurance, hangar and maintance are all real costs and soon add up. A "real" price on an annual is around £3k, hangar, £800 to £3000 insurance anything from £1000. Fly it 100hrs and that is 2x50hr checks at £350 a go. That before you even put the fuel in. Cessna uses 23lph so 100hrs is £2530 in fuel. So lets take the cost of an aircraft 2 seats (Cessna 152) based at Leicester in the old hangar:
Flying 100hrs pa
hangar £900pa
Insurance £30k hull value £1100
Annual £3000
Fuel £2530
2x50hr checks £700
Total £8230
If you were to go into the new hangar the cost is about double for hangerage. If you fly a 4 seater then the hangar costs more.
This excludes landing fees, bacon butties and parts etc. As an example of extra costs my aircraft needs new door handles and a rudder spa which is at the limit of the crack allowance, this will cost me about £1000. Last year I had to have a new floor due to fatigue cracking that cost me £1200 on top of the normal costs.
The more the aircraft flies the more things will wear out and break and it all needs paying for.
The fact is that the average aircraft is expensive to run, on a permit there are lost of savings to be made on CofA less so.
I would never own a permit aircraft because it is to limiting for me, no IMC etc. A lot of people want that type of flexability but need to know the real costs.
As I recall Stik you fly from your own strip in permit aircraft and not many hours. Even your flight into Leicester on Saturday had a free landing after you picked up fuel as I recall! Those of us that have the priviledge of there own strip and hangar can save some money.
The original question was about the cost of running a spam can. Insurance, hangar and maintance are all real costs and soon add up. A "real" price on an annual is around £3k, hangar, £800 to £3000 insurance anything from £1000. Fly it 100hrs and that is 2x50hr checks at £350 a go. That before you even put the fuel in. Cessna uses 23lph so 100hrs is £2530 in fuel. So lets take the cost of an aircraft 2 seats (Cessna 152) based at Leicester in the old hangar:
Flying 100hrs pa
hangar £900pa
Insurance £30k hull value £1100
Annual £3000
Fuel £2530
2x50hr checks £700
Total £8230
If you were to go into the new hangar the cost is about double for hangerage. If you fly a 4 seater then the hangar costs more.
This excludes landing fees, bacon butties and parts etc. As an example of extra costs my aircraft needs new door handles and a rudder spa which is at the limit of the crack allowance, this will cost me about £1000. Last year I had to have a new floor due to fatigue cracking that cost me £1200 on top of the normal costs.
The more the aircraft flies the more things will wear out and break and it all needs paying for.
The fact is that the average aircraft is expensive to run, on a permit there are lost of savings to be made on CofA less so.
I would never own a permit aircraft because it is to limiting for me, no IMC etc. A lot of people want that type of flexability but need to know the real costs.
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Well that figure Jodelman gives is still nearly half the cost of hiring from a club but with the freedom. This is a subject I've been watching close! The microlight costs seem attractive but I think I'd be lloking at "2nd generation" and I guess they're quite restricted by windspeed (always seems windy these days)
What would you want out of a microlight, and what's your budget? A few of us on here have an hour or two in microlights and should be able to offer some advice about types, capabilities, costs and so-on.
G
G
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I know this doesn't help the original question (budget too small) but buying NEW is also something to consider.
With a car it doesn't make sense due to the massive and rapid depreciation, but planes fall much slower. And anyway, if you like it, you won't be selling....
You get a 2 year (typ.) warranty during which you have very controlled costs; basically just off the service price list. Then you get perhaps 10-15 years of very reasonable costs - unless you are unlucky or you park it outdoors.
During those 10-15 years you will have the priceless benefit of
- unlimited and immediate access
- unlimited time away on foreign trips
- maintenance to YOUR standard
- a clean aircraft suitable for non-anorak passengers especially females
- knowledge that nobody has done a "heavy" landing
- keep all the routine stuff in the boot so no need to lug a heavy flight bag everywhere
- worth getting nice kit and stuff like rafts and life jackets
Of course you will also get hassles on various fronts: maintenance issues, hangarage issues, perhaps getting blocked in in the back of the hangar by other owners. But once up the learning curve, it's no big deal. I enjoy the control I have; it's worth every penny.
The sort of horror stories (£10k annuals etc) one hears all the time come from planes 25+ years old. Which is no suprise since the average UK GA fleet age is about 24-25 years. I know that some people have relatively trouble-free planes of that age but I suspect they are the lucky ones.
With a car it doesn't make sense due to the massive and rapid depreciation, but planes fall much slower. And anyway, if you like it, you won't be selling....
You get a 2 year (typ.) warranty during which you have very controlled costs; basically just off the service price list. Then you get perhaps 10-15 years of very reasonable costs - unless you are unlucky or you park it outdoors.
During those 10-15 years you will have the priceless benefit of
- unlimited and immediate access
- unlimited time away on foreign trips
- maintenance to YOUR standard
- a clean aircraft suitable for non-anorak passengers especially females
- knowledge that nobody has done a "heavy" landing
- keep all the routine stuff in the boot so no need to lug a heavy flight bag everywhere
- worth getting nice kit and stuff like rafts and life jackets
Of course you will also get hassles on various fronts: maintenance issues, hangarage issues, perhaps getting blocked in in the back of the hangar by other owners. But once up the learning curve, it's no big deal. I enjoy the control I have; it's worth every penny.
The sort of horror stories (£10k annuals etc) one hears all the time come from planes 25+ years old. Which is no suprise since the average UK GA fleet age is about 24-25 years. I know that some people have relatively trouble-free planes of that age but I suspect they are the lucky ones.