"Clear Prop!"
I am ready to be shot down in flames here and perhaps it's just the excesses of Christmas coupled with all of the war films that have been on but here we go.
If Joe and Joanne Public don't know what "CLEAR PROP" means, and it's them we're trying to save from sticking any extremity into the whirling disc(s), then what would be wrong with shouting something that they might have a clue about?
There's ozplanes "F..k off you dozy b.....D" which I think is quite to the point but may not be ideal in all situations, there's always Avgas172's "getoutadebloodyway" for more of a family audience and, of course, the fledgling's "CLEAR" which is, well, quite clear.
I was just wondering about shouting "CONTACT" - yes, I know that it has a specific meaning and you'd feel like a right sad tw@t shouting it out the window of your 150 but the point is that everyone's seen the films, everyone knows that when someone with a moustache shouts "CONTACT" the quiet bits get loud and the still bits start to move. So, might it help to stop someone being injured?
Now, if you could all please stop laughing for long enough to type "Shut Up, JAFO" then I'll get my coat.
If Joe and Joanne Public don't know what "CLEAR PROP" means, and it's them we're trying to save from sticking any extremity into the whirling disc(s), then what would be wrong with shouting something that they might have a clue about?
There's ozplanes "F..k off you dozy b.....D" which I think is quite to the point but may not be ideal in all situations, there's always Avgas172's "getoutadebloodyway" for more of a family audience and, of course, the fledgling's "CLEAR" which is, well, quite clear.
I was just wondering about shouting "CONTACT" - yes, I know that it has a specific meaning and you'd feel like a right sad tw@t shouting it out the window of your 150 but the point is that everyone's seen the films, everyone knows that when someone with a moustache shouts "CONTACT" the quiet bits get loud and the still bits start to move. So, might it help to stop someone being injured?
Now, if you could all please stop laughing for long enough to type "Shut Up, JAFO" then I'll get my coat.
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I am only a student pilot as yet, however my instructor insists on a load clear shout of clear prop , yet the other extremely experienced instructor says , " I think you should say Blackpool after it , youre to loud" surely that is the point?
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J.A.F.O.
Can I ask what exactly Mr & Mrs Public are doing out wandering aimlessly around the apron in the first place? I dare say it could happen but, perhaps, rather than looking to "clear prop!" (which I do shout without fail) or a suitable alternative to reduce the problem, why not stop anyone not familiar with the environment from going out unescorted? That way anoraks will be less likely to become an endangered species for one! 
If Joe and Joanne Public don't know what "CLEAR PROP" means
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Port Strobe:
Perhaps enjoying being part of the activities at one of those many airstrips such as Popham, or the PFA Rally (Kemble), or any of the other GA airfields or strips where there is no such thing as "the apron" ......
I don't think anybody in the thread has mentioned considering your pax eardrums .... by moving or covering the headset mike before yelling 'Clear' anything!
Slip
Can I ask what exactly Mr & Mrs Public are doing out wandering aimlessly around the apron in the first place?
I don't think anybody in the thread has mentioned considering your pax eardrums .... by moving or covering the headset mike before yelling 'Clear' anything!
Slip
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Interesting question,
I was taught to shout 'Clear prop!' while learning in a Cessna 150 at Cranfield. If I was accompanied, the instructor would usually say 'Clear my side'. The key was turned as soon as the little window thing was latched.
Slipslider, I usually put the intercom on after engine start.
The checklist seems to say, 'Lookout with care all round. Through open window shout 'Clear Prop'.
I have since taken the opportunity for a good loud shout, it's not often I get the chance.
However;
I've never had anyone answer 'No it jolly well isn't!!'.
At Cranfield the planes are parked quite close together and I suppose that it is possible that a very new student or a passenger might be walking along the line or even picking up a stray object from beneath the front of my plane, having missed seeing me while I reach down on the floor for a dropped pencil or similar.
Suppose the general public were walking about on an open day or waiting for their friend to come back from a trial flight to take some photos ?
Self 'CLEEEAAARRR PRRRO-O-O-O-PPP!!!'
Person 1: 'What did he say'
Person 2: '"Clear prop" I think'.
Person 1: 'Is that the thing that holds the plane up ? with the wheels on the ends ? perhaps we should get out of the way of them ? quick step back!'
Chugga Chugga OOOoooowwww!!!
It's possible.
How about "STAND CLEAR OF THE PROPELLOR, THIS AIRCRAFT IS ABOUT TO START!!!"
Trucks use something similar for reversing and it seems to do the job, or at least absolves the operator of responsibility.
I was taught to shout 'Clear prop!' while learning in a Cessna 150 at Cranfield. If I was accompanied, the instructor would usually say 'Clear my side'. The key was turned as soon as the little window thing was latched.
Slipslider, I usually put the intercom on after engine start.
The checklist seems to say, 'Lookout with care all round. Through open window shout 'Clear Prop'.
I have since taken the opportunity for a good loud shout, it's not often I get the chance.
However;
I've never had anyone answer 'No it jolly well isn't!!'.
At Cranfield the planes are parked quite close together and I suppose that it is possible that a very new student or a passenger might be walking along the line or even picking up a stray object from beneath the front of my plane, having missed seeing me while I reach down on the floor for a dropped pencil or similar.
Suppose the general public were walking about on an open day or waiting for their friend to come back from a trial flight to take some photos ?
Self 'CLEEEAAARRR PRRRO-O-O-O-PPP!!!'
Person 1: 'What did he say'
Person 2: '"Clear prop" I think'.
Person 1: 'Is that the thing that holds the plane up ? with the wheels on the ends ? perhaps we should get out of the way of them ? quick step back!'
Chugga Chugga OOOoooowwww!!!
It's possible.
How about "STAND CLEAR OF THE PROPELLOR, THIS AIRCRAFT IS ABOUT TO START!!!"
Trucks use something similar for reversing and it seems to do the job, or at least absolves the operator of responsibility.
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This topic has been the subject of some discussion in the crew room and these are the points put forward;
The shouting "clear prop" will only work when the person it is aimed at can hear, understand and act on the warning.
"Clear Prop" came from an engineering background and was used by engineers turning on the battery as a warning to other people arround the aircraft just in case the prop turned. A similar warning was issued when moving any of the controls or extending flap so that people did not loose fingers or bang heads etc. Another warning is issued when powering up hydrulics if there is powered controls because the controls can move as pressure builds..................No where in this long list of warnings is there a clear prop for starting the engine because no safe pilot will attempt to start an engine unless they are assured that the only people in any close proximity to the aircraft are ground crew associated with starting.
Helicopter pilots never shout "clear tail rotor" even when they can't see the rear of the aircraft.
If flying a twin engined aircraft, people will not hear the pilot shouting "clear prop" over the noise of the first engine already running. Also if a group of aircraft are starting, the same noise problem drowns out the warning call.
If one can't see the engine from the cockpit then one must considder the benifits of having some form of groundcrew to first check if the area is clear and secondly warn of a fire on startup plus having a fire extinguisher to hand.
Places like Popham are accidents waiting to happen with regard to public access to aircraft. Public does not have to be able to touch the airframe to appreciate the aircraft or get the serial number.
What idiot ever walks in front of a propeller aircraft on the apron with the doors closed unless they have checked first...........walking behind may get a blast of slipstream but that is far better than a close encounter with a prop...........We pilots even make this easy by parking in nice neat lines!!
"A Harvard ground crew attempting to attach a tow bar just at the point of start"...........should remember that someone is required to be at the controls (brakes) before attempting to tow. For anyone I know of this means entering the cockpit to check the position of mags, master and brakes before doing anything else..........and staying there to operate the brakes if required during the tow!
So overall, the concensus was that shouting "clear prop" was a waste of time unless there are actually people in the way and in that case, they should be escorted to a safe position before a start is contemplated. Why escorted.........so that you or the groundcrew can check that they have not dropped something or left something behind that either they will rush back for or that you will hit/roll over during taxi.
Regards,
DFC
The shouting "clear prop" will only work when the person it is aimed at can hear, understand and act on the warning.
"Clear Prop" came from an engineering background and was used by engineers turning on the battery as a warning to other people arround the aircraft just in case the prop turned. A similar warning was issued when moving any of the controls or extending flap so that people did not loose fingers or bang heads etc. Another warning is issued when powering up hydrulics if there is powered controls because the controls can move as pressure builds..................No where in this long list of warnings is there a clear prop for starting the engine because no safe pilot will attempt to start an engine unless they are assured that the only people in any close proximity to the aircraft are ground crew associated with starting.
Helicopter pilots never shout "clear tail rotor" even when they can't see the rear of the aircraft.
If flying a twin engined aircraft, people will not hear the pilot shouting "clear prop" over the noise of the first engine already running. Also if a group of aircraft are starting, the same noise problem drowns out the warning call.
If one can't see the engine from the cockpit then one must considder the benifits of having some form of groundcrew to first check if the area is clear and secondly warn of a fire on startup plus having a fire extinguisher to hand.
Places like Popham are accidents waiting to happen with regard to public access to aircraft. Public does not have to be able to touch the airframe to appreciate the aircraft or get the serial number.
What idiot ever walks in front of a propeller aircraft on the apron with the doors closed unless they have checked first...........walking behind may get a blast of slipstream but that is far better than a close encounter with a prop...........We pilots even make this easy by parking in nice neat lines!!
"A Harvard ground crew attempting to attach a tow bar just at the point of start"...........should remember that someone is required to be at the controls (brakes) before attempting to tow. For anyone I know of this means entering the cockpit to check the position of mags, master and brakes before doing anything else..........and staying there to operate the brakes if required during the tow!
So overall, the concensus was that shouting "clear prop" was a waste of time unless there are actually people in the way and in that case, they should be escorted to a safe position before a start is contemplated. Why escorted.........so that you or the groundcrew can check that they have not dropped something or left something behind that either they will rush back for or that you will hit/roll over during taxi.
Regards,
DFC
Initially I used to teach to call clear prop since that was what I was taught but over the years I've moved more & more towards not bothering, instead emphasizing to have a bloody good look around unless it relates to a maintenance related action eg working with an engineer who needs the donk started.
Rationale:
1: It's almost never done in commercial ops anyway
2: As mentioned by others above, no one except the aviation literate have a clue about meaning, and they tend to give a wide birth to an a/c that has crew seats occupied
3: Few, if any, making the call ever wait long enough for a 'victim' recipient to move away.
4: How many would hear the call in a busy airport over the noise of lots of other a/c starting, taking off or even just taxiing past?
5: And finally, if a warning call to aviation ignorant is necessary under the circumstance then I prefer something like 'Stand clear'. A general principle of communication is to avoid using specialist jargon if you wish your vocalisation to have any meaning to those not privy to that field of knowledge.
Far better, I think, to have a bloody good look around and stick any fitted beacons/lights on.
Rationale:
1: It's almost never done in commercial ops anyway
2: As mentioned by others above, no one except the aviation literate have a clue about meaning, and they tend to give a wide birth to an a/c that has crew seats occupied
3: Few, if any, making the call ever wait long enough for a 'victim' recipient to move away.
4: How many would hear the call in a busy airport over the noise of lots of other a/c starting, taking off or even just taxiing past?
5: And finally, if a warning call to aviation ignorant is necessary under the circumstance then I prefer something like 'Stand clear'. A general principle of communication is to avoid using specialist jargon if you wish your vocalisation to have any meaning to those not privy to that field of knowledge.
Far better, I think, to have a bloody good look around and stick any fitted beacons/lights on.
