Biggest Aviation Mark-Up
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Suave yet Shallow
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 343
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From: half way between the gutter and the stars.
Biggest Aviation Mark-Up
OK so we all know and are pretty used to anything marked 'aviation' having it's price hiked up somewhat, however even I was surprised to see a an aircraft tie-down kit being advertised for £40.
Now some wouldn't bat an eyelid at only £40 however all it was, was 3 really large corkscrews and some rope. You've probably all seen them for sale yourselves.
The same corkscrews can be found in wilko's (the pet section...screw into the lawn and attach a dogs lead) for £1.99. (or pet world for £2.99)
So to create the same £40 kit... has cost me £8, 3 x £1.99 and a couple of quid for some rope.
Not really having a winge as I don't feel like I've been ripped off, but maybe of use to others who need a portable tie down kit... a bit of rope and a trip to the petstore is all ya need.
Now some wouldn't bat an eyelid at only £40 however all it was, was 3 really large corkscrews and some rope. You've probably all seen them for sale yourselves.
The same corkscrews can be found in wilko's (the pet section...screw into the lawn and attach a dogs lead) for £1.99. (or pet world for £2.99)
So to create the same £40 kit... has cost me £8, 3 x £1.99 and a couple of quid for some rope.
Not really having a winge as I don't feel like I've been ripped off, but maybe of use to others who need a portable tie down kit... a bit of rope and a trip to the petstore is all ya need.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
Mrs G has just patented a specialist non-aviation device, and is in the middle of haggling with a manufacturer who are going to manufacture and market it. They are looking (to make it viable) for a mark-up of around 6 times above manufacturing costs to make it viable - she'll probably see about 2½% of the sale value.
In that context, and considering the number of manufacturing processes that go into those dog-corkscrews, it's amazing that the petshop can sell them so cheaply, rather than that a pilot shop charges so much.
But yes, I buy my tie-downs from Petsmart too
G
In that context, and considering the number of manufacturing processes that go into those dog-corkscrews, it's amazing that the petshop can sell them so cheaply, rather than that a pilot shop charges so much.
But yes, I buy my tie-downs from Petsmart too
G
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 605
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From: Midlands
So many rip offs........
High viz vests/ jackets (does anybody wear one..?)
Check out the prices in the various pilot suppliers and then spot the same things in a builders merchant for a fraction of the price.
HP
Check out the prices in the various pilot suppliers and then spot the same things in a builders merchant for a fraction of the price.
HP
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Hampshire, UK
Topcat, petstore corkscrews usually have either a fragile tie-ring for the rope attachment, or use a triangle at the top which is open-ended. If you want to use petstore tie-downs, you really should get the end closed (welded) - otherwise it doesn't take a lot of 'pull' to open the triangle up, the rope slips off, and then your pride and joy can go over. A friend's aeroplane was wrecked when exactly that happened. Saving £30 doesn't seem such a good deal when your pride and joy is parked upside down..... 
Slip
Slip
Last edited by SlipSlider; 21st December 2004 at 13:07.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 323
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From: Ashwell, U.K.
Having been relieved of £88 plus VAT for a voltage regulator for my aged Lycoming 0-235 I was a bit miffed to find a box containing 3 of them at a local Car boot sale. When I asked the guy how much he wanted for them his reply was "Well you don't get much demand for Chevy Corvair voltage regulators....would a quid each be OK?" And yes they were the exact replacement but of course didn't have a release note. I wasn't brave enough as I'm on a Cof A but it seems a pity somehow.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20
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From: Fleetwood
I am not in the habit of bringing my work home, but I forgive myself in this case (I clocked off at around 5pm)
Aviation products tend to be high cost because of certification.
From the manufacturers point of view, he produces an item that happens to be used in both the automotive industry and the aviation industry. Whilst I stand to be corrected on the automotive industry, its probably more strict than I imagine, but the aviation industry certainly requires both certification and traceability.
Certification proves that the product will work in the environment that it is intended to use that product.
Whilst the automotive equivelant will probably work in the same environement, it came from the same production line using the same techniques most likely, it may not be possible to trace back to the component parts in the event of a failure. This may not be necessary, but in the case of common mode failures it might be prudent to let the end user know of the problem, or worst case ground the aircraft to which that product is fitted.
In a car, failure of that product may not be disasterous since the driver may be able to pull up to the side of the road. Failure of the same product in an aviation scenario may have more disasterous consequences.
Knowing where that product is fitted may prevent future accidents/incedents.
Thats the safety side. There is also the economy of scale issue to consider.
Lets say for example that to certify a product costing £10 for aviation use costs £100,000 to cover test plan, test procedure, testing and test reports ( there are many tests to cover different aspects such as vibration, acceleration, humidity etc). Now I know its likely to be used in say 1000 aircraft so I spread the cost over my 1000 units so the cost of the unit now comes to £110.
Now consider the car manufacturer who wants to make 1,000,000 cars with this product, if you tried to spread the cost of certification over his production run he would end up paying £1099900.0999000999000999000999001 for the same product instead of 10,000,000. You however, would get your product for £10.99 instead of £110 = chuffed to mintballs. The car manufacturer quite rightly says NO to paying more because you want to sell it the aviation market as well.
I have deliberately ignored the issue of the resellers don the line because they also have fixed overheads to cover paperwork handling.
Kerching - clocked off for Christmas again - Seasons greetings to you all
Oh and by the way I do not profess to be anything other than an engineer and the above is a very simplistic view of real life production.
Just my two penneth worth
Aviation products tend to be high cost because of certification.
From the manufacturers point of view, he produces an item that happens to be used in both the automotive industry and the aviation industry. Whilst I stand to be corrected on the automotive industry, its probably more strict than I imagine, but the aviation industry certainly requires both certification and traceability.
Certification proves that the product will work in the environment that it is intended to use that product.
Whilst the automotive equivelant will probably work in the same environement, it came from the same production line using the same techniques most likely, it may not be possible to trace back to the component parts in the event of a failure. This may not be necessary, but in the case of common mode failures it might be prudent to let the end user know of the problem, or worst case ground the aircraft to which that product is fitted.
In a car, failure of that product may not be disasterous since the driver may be able to pull up to the side of the road. Failure of the same product in an aviation scenario may have more disasterous consequences.
Knowing where that product is fitted may prevent future accidents/incedents.
Thats the safety side. There is also the economy of scale issue to consider.
Lets say for example that to certify a product costing £10 for aviation use costs £100,000 to cover test plan, test procedure, testing and test reports ( there are many tests to cover different aspects such as vibration, acceleration, humidity etc). Now I know its likely to be used in say 1000 aircraft so I spread the cost over my 1000 units so the cost of the unit now comes to £110.
Now consider the car manufacturer who wants to make 1,000,000 cars with this product, if you tried to spread the cost of certification over his production run he would end up paying £1099900.0999000999000999000999001 for the same product instead of 10,000,000. You however, would get your product for £10.99 instead of £110 = chuffed to mintballs. The car manufacturer quite rightly says NO to paying more because you want to sell it the aviation market as well.
I have deliberately ignored the issue of the resellers don the line because they also have fixed overheads to cover paperwork handling.
Kerching - clocked off for Christmas again - Seasons greetings to you all
Oh and by the way I do not profess to be anything other than an engineer and the above is a very simplistic view of real life production.
Just my two penneth worth
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Essex, UK
g0kmt
I agree with what you have said.
The problem I have is that the vast majority of the £100,000 for certification will be spent on certified engineers ticking boxes at £400 per hour and having someone check that the boxes have been correctly ticked, at £500 an hour, at the rate of one box per hour, all done three times, to be sure, to be sure, to be sure.
And here's the thing... once 1000 have been sold, so certifications costs recovered, do they revert to being £10?
I used to employ a lad as a trainee mechanic. He was nice enough, but had no problem solving aptitude. When he left my employ, he went across the road to a certain aviation manufacturing company. He was making arm rests for helicopter seats. Within two weeks, he could make a couple a day. He made them day in, day out. They went out of the factory gate at around £3000 each.
The vibration, temp and humidity testing of auto parts will have all been done by the manufacturer as part of the original supply chain agreement. Recalls on cars cost millions and suppliers responsible for a recall will be billed accordingly. With 3 year warranties now the norm, the testing is probably far more thorough and rigorous than would be required for aircarft use.
The state of the US automobile industry 30 years ago was such that, in this case, I would definitely buy the certified regulator.
I agree with what you have said.
The problem I have is that the vast majority of the £100,000 for certification will be spent on certified engineers ticking boxes at £400 per hour and having someone check that the boxes have been correctly ticked, at £500 an hour, at the rate of one box per hour, all done three times, to be sure, to be sure, to be sure.
And here's the thing... once 1000 have been sold, so certifications costs recovered, do they revert to being £10?
I used to employ a lad as a trainee mechanic. He was nice enough, but had no problem solving aptitude. When he left my employ, he went across the road to a certain aviation manufacturing company. He was making arm rests for helicopter seats. Within two weeks, he could make a couple a day. He made them day in, day out. They went out of the factory gate at around £3000 each.
The vibration, temp and humidity testing of auto parts will have all been done by the manufacturer as part of the original supply chain agreement. Recalls on cars cost millions and suppliers responsible for a recall will be billed accordingly. With 3 year warranties now the norm, the testing is probably far more thorough and rigorous than would be required for aircarft use.
The state of the US automobile industry 30 years ago was such that, in this case, I would definitely buy the certified regulator.
Last edited by bar shaker; 24th December 2004 at 08:26.
