Nice day for flying VMC on top

[fireflybob]

Only did the one trip today but we got RIS to climb on top - 2,500 ft and we burst out into bright sunshine and blue skies - it was great to be airborne again and the student really appreciated the view above the cloud.

It makes all the bureacracy seem worth while after all and reminds you what flying is really about!

[DOC.400]

Absolutely!! Done that a few times over the years......

IMC lapsed a while ago since the 'plane isn't FM immune any more .......not that it knows that!! But........

DOC

[long final]

Was there with you today bob. A gloomy dull blackpool at 1000' and clear blue and hot sun at 3000'. Student had a great time. Makes you realise why its one of the best jobs around.

LF

[Chilli Monster]

IMC lapsed a while ago since the 'plane isn't FM immune any more

Nothing to stop you renewing it in your own aircraft, as training approaches in VMC can be done in non-FM immune aircraft (outside CAS). Nothing to then stop you flying on top, as you don't require any navaids to do that in class 'G' airspace.

So - what's stopping you

[Evil J]

Beat me to it chilli!!

I thought you only needed FM immunity to be IFR inside CAS?

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

[Aussie Andy]

VMC on top!

I am very new to the wonderful world of VMC on top (2~3 hrs to go to getting my IMC rating). I had my first proper taste yesterday, which I wrote up in another thread here.

Also, I know that one of our instructors at BAFC (Wycombe) did what you guys were doing yesterday too as he told me he took a trial-flight punter above the clouds too - made his day (both of them !)

Andy

[High Wing Drifter]

Evil,

I thought you only needed FM immunity to be IFR inside CAS?

I hope I'm wrong but I think this is a common misconception. The allowance for the use of non-FM Immune radio equipment outside CAS extends only to comms, not to VOR. CAP 747 (envelopes AN84) says that non immune VOR equipment must placarded and restricted to VFR only.

HWD.

[Atlas Shrugged]

Nothing to then stop you flying on top, as you don't require any navaids to do that in class 'G' airspace.

How can that be?

A

[dde0apb]

You arguably do need NAVAIDs to fly on top; but if you are happy to trust your life to an ADF then I don't see why you shouldn't go VMC on top of an overcast layer, and let down to SSA navigating using an NDB.

In fact I did it the other day flying EGNV- GAM - DTY - WCO - WOD - EGTF

As it happened I did have two FM immune NAV boxes on board - plus a transponder that would only squawk codes beginning with 7, but that's another story.

[Chilli Monster]

My original post, obviously causing confusion here, probably needs explaining here, an the best way to do it is split it into parts.

1) IFR flight in class 'G' airspace legally requires no navaids at all. The ANO only stipulates equipment requirements for IFR flight inside Controlled Airspace

2) Flight on top is, in reality, VFR flight (provided you remain the correct vertical distance from cloud)

Therefore, you can fly on top, with no navaid equipment on board the aircraft. The fact that you happen to have one or two non-FM immune VOR receivers on board, which you know to be accurate, and can therefore help and facilitate your navigation, is neither here and there to the authorities, but a godsend to you.

Come descent time your options are as follows:

1) Descent to MSA - self calculated

2) Descent to lowest Radar Vectoring Altitude - provided by LARS

3) SRA to an airfield

4) NDB approach

Non-FM immunity does not preclude using an IMC rating. You just have to make sure you know the rules

[oscarmike]

I was also IMC training on Saturday in a PA28 with full IF screens in place.

My other half was in the rear seat oohing and ahhing about how beautiful it was, and I didn't get to see anything except the panel!

[Aussie Andy]

oscarmike - did your MRs take photos? My great regret is that with the screens up, my hands full and the boss barking at me, I don't get to take photos of the view!

I guess I will have to wait until after I get the rating, and when I have a safety pilot aboard with a camera!

Andy

[yawningdog]

All these posts about VMC On Top made my mouth water. So I thought I get to it today as the tops are at 2200. Typcal, the "bottoms" are 200ft OVC!

Oh well, here goes another dreary low lux day, terra firma.

[oscarmike]

oscarmike - did your MRs take photos?

Aussie Andy - would you believe it - neither of us thought to take the camera!!!

Regards

OM

[omcaree]

Hey there,

I also enjoyed flying VMC above the clouds yesterday, and I did get some pics, courtesy of my passenger.

http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0510.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0512.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0520.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0526.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0530.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0537.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0544.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0545.JPG

And under the cloud again, it looked like this
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0547.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/omcaree/100_0557.JPG

cheers
Owen Mc

[Flyin'Dutch']

OM,

Must have been you that moved onto the grass when I came taxying down in the Lance.

You're a gent!

Few miles to the East it was CAVOK. Popped up and through it on the way to Norwich.

Nice day.

[englishal]

Oops, sorry mate, I think I've just bust your website. There I was happily viewing your pics, until number 3 when I get this:

The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information.

Still, numbers 1 & 2 were very nice....

[yawningdog]

Hi Omcaree

Can you put those pics anywhere else so we see them. Thanks

[Aussie Andy]

Omcare - pics seem to be working now - very nice!

Andy

[Mr Magoo]

Hi Owen,

How's it going? - haven't seen you up at EGTC for a while.

Cheers

(The bloke who did your PPL)