Which GPS?
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Which GPS?
I'm looking to buy a fairly basic GPS as a backup aid but don't know where to start. I'm not fussed about colour, although a moving map would be nice. Budget about £300 but could increase that a little if it was worth it.
Any suggestions or recommendations?
Thanks!
Any suggestions or recommendations?
Thanks!
IMHO forget the Garmin III Pilot!! Get yourself a pocket PC ( I use the Mio168 with built-in GPS ). You can load a digitised version of your preferred 1:500000 chart, use the moving map facility and it's just like flying with the paper chart! The PPC requires memory map navigator to run the CAA chart, and you also get the 1:250000 charts relevant to the half mil, and you also get all the airfield data charts. The PPC has a full 65536 colour display and the GPS receiver is a hundred times better than the Garmin.
Also, you can load TomTom navigator and use it as an in-car navigation system which is remarkably accurate with voice directions for your planned route.
Apart from all that it's a PDA as well and costs around £250.
Check out :
www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk
www.memory-map.co.uk
message me if you need any more info.
Mark
Also, you can load TomTom navigator and use it as an in-car navigation system which is remarkably accurate with voice directions for your planned route.
Apart from all that it's a PDA as well and costs around £250.
Check out :
www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk
www.memory-map.co.uk
message me if you need any more info.
Mark
Join Date: Jun 2003
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This one has been done to death here too, recently.
It depends on how much one is going to use the GPS.
I am going to duck after saying this and get back to doing some real work, but the proper way to use a GPS is for primary navigation. In VMC one continually checks it against the outside view, but the track line on the GPS will be far more accurate and less ambiguous than anything else at one's disposal. In IMC one would use it as primary too, but would also track one or more navaids, if possible.
I have played with PDA solutions pretty extensively (the Mitac 168 yesterday - a great unit for running TomTom in a car) but most are just not suitable for use as one's sole GPS. I have a big panel mounted setup so have looked at PDA solutions as a supplement - especially as one can display the CAA charts on them.
For a start, I have come across just one unit whose display will auto-dim according to ambient light - the Ipaq 5x50, and that works only when on battery, not when powered from an external source. All other PDAs can be dimmed but by fiddling around with the stylus - no good in flight. Most are far too bright for night flight even with the brightness on min.
Their touch screens only need to be touched and the thing goes off in some unwanted mode.
At the budget stated, I would buy a used aviation unit, and get the best one can afford. Also one must consider mounting options - if renting the plane, a leg-strapped unit (not many about) might be preferred to a panel-top one.
Also avoid designs that go back some 10 years e.g. the Garmin 195. They have nasty firmware bugs.
Having said that, an Ipaq 5x50 running something like Memory Map or Oziexplorer, with the screen cover protecting the screen from touching, would be an adequate solution - IF I can find how to enable display auto-brightness when on ext power.
It depends on how much one is going to use the GPS.
I am going to duck after saying this and get back to doing some real work, but the proper way to use a GPS is for primary navigation. In VMC one continually checks it against the outside view, but the track line on the GPS will be far more accurate and less ambiguous than anything else at one's disposal. In IMC one would use it as primary too, but would also track one or more navaids, if possible.
I have played with PDA solutions pretty extensively (the Mitac 168 yesterday - a great unit for running TomTom in a car) but most are just not suitable for use as one's sole GPS. I have a big panel mounted setup so have looked at PDA solutions as a supplement - especially as one can display the CAA charts on them.
For a start, I have come across just one unit whose display will auto-dim according to ambient light - the Ipaq 5x50, and that works only when on battery, not when powered from an external source. All other PDAs can be dimmed but by fiddling around with the stylus - no good in flight. Most are far too bright for night flight even with the brightness on min.
Their touch screens only need to be touched and the thing goes off in some unwanted mode.
At the budget stated, I would buy a used aviation unit, and get the best one can afford. Also one must consider mounting options - if renting the plane, a leg-strapped unit (not many about) might be preferred to a panel-top one.
Also avoid designs that go back some 10 years e.g. the Garmin 195. They have nasty firmware bugs.
Having said that, an Ipaq 5x50 running something like Memory Map or Oziexplorer, with the screen cover protecting the screen from touching, would be an adequate solution - IF I can find how to enable display auto-brightness when on ext power.
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Here' some info I wrote on an earlier thread regarding the 96C. In addition to this, I flew with it today and found it exerienced a software crash when I was programing in the route. It also slowed right down when I tried to "set OBS & hold" when in the air. I feel the software needs an update.
"I used to have the Pilot III and have just moved onto the 96C. Both units are pretty much the same size, screen doesn't seem much bigger, but the resolution on the 96C is much better.
As for the 96C, my sugestion is that you will get much more for your money staying with the Pilot III. The 96C comes with a Yoke Mount which is OK but very bulky. The P3 is beter as it has a neat little screw on the back that allows you to make a simple mount to attach it to your kneeboard.
The 96C doesn't come with a carry case so add £13, It doesn't have an external aerial, so add £70, and doesn't come with a Serial Port cable, so add £23. (It does come with a USB connection but my version of Flitestar only works via the Serial port.)
So, I bought it for £445, and spent £106 on extras, plus postage and the total investment was around £580!! I sold my old Pilot III for around £220. Now I realize who got the better deal.
The features on the 96C are nothing special at all. The Obstacle alert facility doesn't seem to work in the UK as Jeppesen hasn't included them in the database. The "Select Approach" function which allows navigation to the FAF & MAP on published instrument approaches souds useful, but is actually quite confusing. The waypoint management system requires too much button pressing and feels disorganized.
The good points about the 96C are that its COLOUR and that it only uses only 2 x AA batteries which last much much longer than the Pilot III. The 96C comes with a nice software program which allows you to download your flight history. The Pilot III has this facility via Flitestar, but the 96C is much better as it not only displays the Track, but also Height, Speed, Times and can be displayed as a profile (altitude X-section) so you can monitor the accuracy of your climbs & descents.
So, stay with the Pilot III if you can, but if you want to upgrade to the 96 series get the 96C over the greyscale 96 otherwise you won't notice the difference and feel ripped off!!"
"I used to have the Pilot III and have just moved onto the 96C. Both units are pretty much the same size, screen doesn't seem much bigger, but the resolution on the 96C is much better.
As for the 96C, my sugestion is that you will get much more for your money staying with the Pilot III. The 96C comes with a Yoke Mount which is OK but very bulky. The P3 is beter as it has a neat little screw on the back that allows you to make a simple mount to attach it to your kneeboard.
The 96C doesn't come with a carry case so add £13, It doesn't have an external aerial, so add £70, and doesn't come with a Serial Port cable, so add £23. (It does come with a USB connection but my version of Flitestar only works via the Serial port.)
So, I bought it for £445, and spent £106 on extras, plus postage and the total investment was around £580!! I sold my old Pilot III for around £220. Now I realize who got the better deal.
The features on the 96C are nothing special at all. The Obstacle alert facility doesn't seem to work in the UK as Jeppesen hasn't included them in the database. The "Select Approach" function which allows navigation to the FAF & MAP on published instrument approaches souds useful, but is actually quite confusing. The waypoint management system requires too much button pressing and feels disorganized.
The good points about the 96C are that its COLOUR and that it only uses only 2 x AA batteries which last much much longer than the Pilot III. The 96C comes with a nice software program which allows you to download your flight history. The Pilot III has this facility via Flitestar, but the 96C is much better as it not only displays the Track, but also Height, Speed, Times and can be displayed as a profile (altitude X-section) so you can monitor the accuracy of your climbs & descents.
So, stay with the Pilot III if you can, but if you want to upgrade to the 96 series get the 96C over the greyscale 96 otherwise you won't notice the difference and feel ripped off!!"
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There is always an alternative!!!
http://www.avmapnavigation.com/
Just got myself an AvMap EKP IIIC Pro, cost me £700 by bringing over from US but you get them Italy but cost is substantially higher at about £1400. Date cards are also cheaper in US (£100 v £240 if bought in EU), unit comes with full US Jeppsen Database and I bought the EU one as an extra.
Amazing piece of kit with 7" screen and fast redraw rate plus some nice little touches like HSI, VNAV and Airport Info.
Only bit I found frustrating is that the flight plan entry could have been designed better.
http://www.avmapnavigation.com/
Just got myself an AvMap EKP IIIC Pro, cost me £700 by bringing over from US but you get them Italy but cost is substantially higher at about £1400. Date cards are also cheaper in US (£100 v £240 if bought in EU), unit comes with full US Jeppsen Database and I bought the EU one as an extra.
Amazing piece of kit with 7" screen and fast redraw rate plus some nice little touches like HSI, VNAV and Airport Info.
Only bit I found frustrating is that the flight plan entry could have been designed better.
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Just buy one of those used by trekkers.
I used my 4 yr old magellen pioneer as back up flying around the Bahamas.
Was always spot on with the aircraft gps.
Cost £79.
And forces you to refer to a paper map rather than the electronic one.
I used my 4 yr old magellen pioneer as back up flying around the Bahamas.
Was always spot on with the aircraft gps.
Cost £79.
And forces you to refer to a paper map rather than the electronic one.
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BigEndBob,
Interesting point about non-aviation GPSs. I'm open to suggestions as they are considerably cheaper!
As I said in my earlier post I will be using it to cross-check and confirm my watch-map-ground position. If non-aviation GPSs (like the Garmin GPS 12/XL or GPS72) allow entry of airport waypoints, towns, VORs etc. then I see little reason to buy a moving map pilot GPSIII.
Can someone who uses a non-aviation GPS for flying run through how it is still useful as a navigation aid. I presume speed and distance are in mph and miles respectively or is knots an option?
Thanks.
Interesting point about non-aviation GPSs. I'm open to suggestions as they are considerably cheaper!
As I said in my earlier post I will be using it to cross-check and confirm my watch-map-ground position. If non-aviation GPSs (like the Garmin GPS 12/XL or GPS72) allow entry of airport waypoints, towns, VORs etc. then I see little reason to buy a moving map pilot GPSIII.
Can someone who uses a non-aviation GPS for flying run through how it is still useful as a navigation aid. I presume speed and distance are in mph and miles respectively or is knots an option?
Thanks.
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I use a non-aviation Garmin GPS III - the difference is that there's no HSI-like display, and there's no airspace overlay for the map or database of airfields etc. The rest is the same, and it's quite happy with knots and nm. Cost was a third of the price of a Pilot III, probably about £50 on ebay now.
I couple it up to Navbox with no problems, so you just click a few times to define the route and download it to the GPS. No need to fiddle around entering waypoints, although once Navbox has downloaded them once they're in the GPS should you need them.
Of course, I'd like a new colour GPS, but the III does everything I actually need...
I couple it up to Navbox with no problems, so you just click a few times to define the route and download it to the GPS. No need to fiddle around entering waypoints, although once Navbox has downloaded them once they're in the GPS should you need them.
Of course, I'd like a new colour GPS, but the III does everything I actually need...
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I wouldn't be a cheapskate if I were you.
You're spending so much money on your flying anyway, why not spend a fraction of that on a 2nd hand aviation database Pilot III, and be safe.
Let's face it, GPS's are not just navigational aides, they're a serious enhancement to Air Safety. They reduce cockpit workload dramatically. I wish people would stop frowning on GPS's as the bad brother of good old "dead reckoning".
There are 3 main purchases that one will encounter in one's life, buying the house, the car, and the GPS. If you're serious about your flying, don't cut corners.
You're spending so much money on your flying anyway, why not spend a fraction of that on a 2nd hand aviation database Pilot III, and be safe.
Let's face it, GPS's are not just navigational aides, they're a serious enhancement to Air Safety. They reduce cockpit workload dramatically. I wish people would stop frowning on GPS's as the bad brother of good old "dead reckoning".
There are 3 main purchases that one will encounter in one's life, buying the house, the car, and the GPS. If you're serious about your flying, don't cut corners.
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Gee thanks yawningdog!
Other than renewing my class 1 and IR every year, my initial huge outlay was about 3 years ago when I went commercial. I now work as a humble part-time flying instructor at 2 airfields near London. Virtually all my flights are with students or trial lessons. It would be nice to have something to back up VFR nav and VOR/DME/ADF equipment on the aircraft. That is the only reason I want a GPS. If I can do the job for cheaper than my budget than that's fine by me.
Cheers!
Other than renewing my class 1 and IR every year, my initial huge outlay was about 3 years ago when I went commercial. I now work as a humble part-time flying instructor at 2 airfields near London. Virtually all my flights are with students or trial lessons. It would be nice to have something to back up VFR nav and VOR/DME/ADF equipment on the aircraft. That is the only reason I want a GPS. If I can do the job for cheaper than my budget than that's fine by me.
Cheers!
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Gosh, how impressive a "humble" flying instructor buying and wanting to use a GPS.
Thanks for letting us know you were "commercial" it has made a huge difference to answering your question.
Thanks for letting us know you were "commercial" it has made a huge difference to answering your question.
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If you are wanting a GPS simply as a backup then Garmin GPS Pilot III pilot is ideal. I use one for that purpose and bought it on e-bay for just over £200. It came in as new condition with various accessories and there nearly always appear to be ones on offer. I bought it to replace a Garmin 92 also bought on e-bay for just over £100. I was going to sell the 92 but give it to the short approaches to occupy them when they start feeling bored/sick.
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Crosswind limits,
When you eventually get your GPS, can I request that when you yourself are happy you know how to use it properly, that you get around to showing your students how to use it properly also? Where I learnt to fly GPS was not even mentioned. I missed out.
I now have a Garmin 196, a bit more than you wanted to spend Iknow, but it is one of the best things I have ever bought....period. Cant believe I went flying for so long without one now, it makes life so much easier and less stressfull.
Regards, SD..
When you eventually get your GPS, can I request that when you yourself are happy you know how to use it properly, that you get around to showing your students how to use it properly also? Where I learnt to fly GPS was not even mentioned. I missed out.
I now have a Garmin 196, a bit more than you wanted to spend Iknow, but it is one of the best things I have ever bought....period. Cant believe I went flying for so long without one now, it makes life so much easier and less stressfull.
Regards, SD..
