Quitting Flying
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Quitting Flying
I read the following article excerpt with interest this weekend. It is from a Sky Watch report and I have deliberately not quoted the authors name. Why is it that so many stop flying when there are so many different ways of staying airborne?
"Apart from folk who go on to Career Flying:
70% of all people who qualify as Private Pilots are no longer flying after TWO YEARS.
The rest - apart from a very few - are all out of flying within SIX YEARS.
That leaves just 5% which **** classifies as "incurables". Folk who one way or another will be flying until they turn their toes up. They make up the constant core of active private flying in the UK.
Expanding on the subject, **** said about 20% of the people who take a trial lesson decide to have flying lessons. Of those, around 65% actually complete the course and become PPL's.
Most of the people who don't buy their own aircraft or a share gradually reduce their flying and drop out completely inside a couple of years. The remaining very few who stay as Club flyers will mostly be gone inside five years.
Inside 6 years most aircraft owners will have sold their aeroplanes/shares and gone. So, after a six year period, 95% of all people who came into private flying during the same year will be gone".
"Apart from folk who go on to Career Flying:
70% of all people who qualify as Private Pilots are no longer flying after TWO YEARS.
The rest - apart from a very few - are all out of flying within SIX YEARS.
That leaves just 5% which **** classifies as "incurables". Folk who one way or another will be flying until they turn their toes up. They make up the constant core of active private flying in the UK.
Expanding on the subject, **** said about 20% of the people who take a trial lesson decide to have flying lessons. Of those, around 65% actually complete the course and become PPL's.
Most of the people who don't buy their own aircraft or a share gradually reduce their flying and drop out completely inside a couple of years. The remaining very few who stay as Club flyers will mostly be gone inside five years.
Inside 6 years most aircraft owners will have sold their aeroplanes/shares and gone. So, after a six year period, 95% of all people who came into private flying during the same year will be gone".
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I think it's because flying is unusually demanding - there are so may aspects that have to be right before the wheels leave the deck -
Licence
A/C documentation
A/C condition
A/C availability
Any Handheld devices charged up
Clouds - base - type - forecast etc.
Wind - and forecast
NOTAMs
etc
etc
Personal availability - must co-incide with all of the above.
The last point maybe is the cruncher - how many days ahead do people ordinarily plan? OK if you're IMC and night rated etc, but if you're daytime VFR like me, then lots of mental energy goes in to trying to schedule a flight for when a) I can do it, and b) when the weather is likely to be OK. After lots of missed attempts, I am sure it can seem like hard work.
And then when the wheels leave the ground, it is a high-demand pastime.....so I think a lot of people find they are not getting the enjoyment return for the effort expended.
And unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast - some people thrive on it, most won't!
A
Licence
A/C documentation
A/C condition
A/C availability
Any Handheld devices charged up
Clouds - base - type - forecast etc.
Wind - and forecast
NOTAMs
etc
etc
Personal availability - must co-incide with all of the above.
The last point maybe is the cruncher - how many days ahead do people ordinarily plan? OK if you're IMC and night rated etc, but if you're daytime VFR like me, then lots of mental energy goes in to trying to schedule a flight for when a) I can do it, and b) when the weather is likely to be OK. After lots of missed attempts, I am sure it can seem like hard work.
And then when the wheels leave the ground, it is a high-demand pastime.....so I think a lot of people find they are not getting the enjoyment return for the effort expended.
And unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast - some people thrive on it, most won't!
A
NO7BCM
I believe that the categories are as follows:
Out of 1000 Trial Lessons
200 take Lessons - Kagoul
130 gain PPLs - Elite Kagoul
40 still Flying after 2 Years - Anorak
6 still Flying after 6 Years - Elite Anorak
Hope that clears it up.
I believe that the categories are as follows:
Out of 1000 Trial Lessons
200 take Lessons - Kagoul
130 gain PPLs - Elite Kagoul
40 still Flying after 2 Years - Anorak
6 still Flying after 6 Years - Elite Anorak
Hope that clears it up.
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Well, I'm in my 22nd year. It must be an illness by then. As you say, planning ahead and getting all the factors lined up is like a planetary conjunction. Still, the rewards (for me) when it all works are all worth while.
Cheers,
The Odd One
Cheers,
The Odd One
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I don't think it has much to do with whether flying is demanding or not. Once you have the licence you've probably the ability to cover the demanding bits.
It may well have something to do with the problem of access, whether for weather, booked planes, distance from airfield (I finally suspended my activities in 1971 when I was driving 1.3/4 hours to fly for 50 mins followed by 1 3/4 hour drive back.) Surely has something to do with the cost and commitment to family, GF etc (did for me too.) and a whole lot to do with the lack of help, encouragement, camaraderie, social aspect etc.
That surely is the really big change from the pre war and early post war flying clubs. They were also part of a social world, without TV, DVD, etc it people wet off to spend time with like minded friends. That world is now gone and the industry has not adapted or replaced it with anything worth while. Ten pin bowling has largely gone the same way, ad how many villages have Cricket clubs these days?
Everybody knows, ( or should) that it cost 10 times as much to get a new customer as it does to retain an old one, so why don't they spend a little on doing just that!
The new paradigm of 'Flight Centres" and 'Aviation Schools"doesn't encourage people to continue, they sell you the training and then boot you out into the wide world. Unfortunately most of those who went before have already dicovered how inhostpitable that world is and moved on so there is no supporting social ifrastructuure.
Pretty shortsighted.
It may well have something to do with the problem of access, whether for weather, booked planes, distance from airfield (I finally suspended my activities in 1971 when I was driving 1.3/4 hours to fly for 50 mins followed by 1 3/4 hour drive back.) Surely has something to do with the cost and commitment to family, GF etc (did for me too.) and a whole lot to do with the lack of help, encouragement, camaraderie, social aspect etc.
That surely is the really big change from the pre war and early post war flying clubs. They were also part of a social world, without TV, DVD, etc it people wet off to spend time with like minded friends. That world is now gone and the industry has not adapted or replaced it with anything worth while. Ten pin bowling has largely gone the same way, ad how many villages have Cricket clubs these days?
Everybody knows, ( or should) that it cost 10 times as much to get a new customer as it does to retain an old one, so why don't they spend a little on doing just that!
The new paradigm of 'Flight Centres" and 'Aviation Schools"doesn't encourage people to continue, they sell you the training and then boot you out into the wide world. Unfortunately most of those who went before have already dicovered how inhostpitable that world is and moved on so there is no supporting social ifrastructuure.
Pretty shortsighted.
How does that compare, I wonder, with any other hobby that people take up - be it ballroom dancing, sailing, judo, pigeon fancying, whatever....
The fact is that human beings change their minds about what they want to do. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, merely suggesting that flying may in this regard be no different, and we who don't give up are the oddballs in some regards. (I've certainly given up other hobbies over the years for that matter, I was one of the few hundred best in Briain in a particular sport and starting to look at becoming International until academic studies then flying took precedence.)
G
The fact is that human beings change their minds about what they want to do. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, merely suggesting that flying may in this regard be no different, and we who don't give up are the oddballs in some regards. (I've certainly given up other hobbies over the years for that matter, I was one of the few hundred best in Briain in a particular sport and starting to look at becoming International until academic studies then flying took precedence.)
G
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20% of the people who take a trial lesson decide to have flying lessons.
It would cetainly be interesting to get some definitative figures as to the drop-out rate in the UK.
I'm a Anorak, but collecting my Elite Anorak badge very shortly.
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Attrition rate
Like so many, I couldn't afford to learn to fly but scraped through to get my PPL.
When it came through the door it was a big anti-climax simply because I had no idea what I was going to do with it now that I had it.
A young family ruled out the ever-increasing cost of hire. How could I justify blowing the equivalent of a weeks groceries on an hours flying. How could I enjoy it?
Lack of currency - especially in the early days - means lack of confidence and an ever increasing likelihood of quitting
Cost share? Forget it. Its legal but very few people are prepared to put their hands in their pockets.
For me, the salvation came in the form of a flying group. Part ownership of an aircraft, no matter how small, gives you a sense of purpose, a group of like-minded mates to fly with and a 'part' of the aviation scene beyond hiring an aircraft from a club.
Its a nice day - you want to fly now. You don't want to think to yourself, its a nice day - I'll take the next available booking in 2 weeks time....
The bug doesn't really bite hard until you have flown over the Channel or completed that first 'magic' trip. You feel chuffed with yourself, you flew well, have stories to tell in the clubhouse - all leans towards you becoming one of those who keep flying.
Lets be clear though - flying aint cheap. If you set out to operate on a shoe string then be prepared for the occasional big, unexpected bill. If you aint got the money maybe you shouldn't start in the first place.
Flying is an expensive luxury, make no mistake.
I went through periods of flying very little - the money was needed elsewhere.
Fortunately, nearly 30 years later, I am as keen as I ever was and fortunately can afford to fly my own aircraft whenever I want - all beyond my wildest dreams at the time.
I have taken many people for their first flight ever in anything. To me, that is the biggest buzz of all.
in the words of Brendan O'Brien, 'Aeroplanes - the most exciting machines made by man'...
It says it all.
Stick with it!
HP
When it came through the door it was a big anti-climax simply because I had no idea what I was going to do with it now that I had it.
A young family ruled out the ever-increasing cost of hire. How could I justify blowing the equivalent of a weeks groceries on an hours flying. How could I enjoy it?
Lack of currency - especially in the early days - means lack of confidence and an ever increasing likelihood of quitting
Cost share? Forget it. Its legal but very few people are prepared to put their hands in their pockets.
For me, the salvation came in the form of a flying group. Part ownership of an aircraft, no matter how small, gives you a sense of purpose, a group of like-minded mates to fly with and a 'part' of the aviation scene beyond hiring an aircraft from a club.
Its a nice day - you want to fly now. You don't want to think to yourself, its a nice day - I'll take the next available booking in 2 weeks time....
The bug doesn't really bite hard until you have flown over the Channel or completed that first 'magic' trip. You feel chuffed with yourself, you flew well, have stories to tell in the clubhouse - all leans towards you becoming one of those who keep flying.
Lets be clear though - flying aint cheap. If you set out to operate on a shoe string then be prepared for the occasional big, unexpected bill. If you aint got the money maybe you shouldn't start in the first place.
Flying is an expensive luxury, make no mistake.
I went through periods of flying very little - the money was needed elsewhere.
Fortunately, nearly 30 years later, I am as keen as I ever was and fortunately can afford to fly my own aircraft whenever I want - all beyond my wildest dreams at the time.
I have taken many people for their first flight ever in anything. To me, that is the biggest buzz of all.
in the words of Brendan O'Brien, 'Aeroplanes - the most exciting machines made by man'...
It says it all.
Stick with it!
HP
Spicy Meatball
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Hairyplane - veyr inspiring post indeed. You basically have started what I was going to say:
I am 22 hours into the PPL and have thought about the main points in this thread for quite some time. I always hear stories of people giving it up and wonder why the hell they do. I am so crazy about flying, just like you people are, and I could never for one day imagine not being able to fly for whatever reason. The cost of hire is silly when you compare it to the hourly cost of a group owned/shared aircraft - this is something which I want to do when I have my license and some experience under my belt. The thing is though, which I have to think about a lot, is what aircraft do I go for? I have heard there are many wonders of flying tailwheel aircraft, so do I go for one of them (after training of course) or do I stay with a Tomahawk or Warrior? If I could fly a Tommy for £30 an hour instead of £100 then I would for maybe 30 hours or so, then sell up and move forward. Putting it simply, I just dont know. I can only decide that later when I have my PPL, and I truly hope that I can be one of the 5% who are still flying after 6 years, and more.
Regards
Maz
For me, the salvation came in the form of a flying group.
Regards
Maz
High Flying Bird
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One of the hardest things to do, once you have your PPL, is keep yourself inspired. I was given a copy of 'Progressive Flying' for my birthday, which has useful ideas for how to push your envelope, gain experience, pay for your flying & generally improve yourself. Just flying round the local area, or even bumbling off to another airfield for lunch isn't enough to keep people motivated. Think how tough the struggle can be to get the PPL in the first place... It's a very steep learning curve and consolidating that, despite its importance, doesn't seem to be enough of a challenge for some.
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I followed the inevitable route almost 20 years ago - I think I kept my licence for 2 or 3 years as I didn't have the inclination to spand all of my beer money on AVGAS. Some 15 years later I went back having promised that I would only do it if I could manage something more than the legal minimum and the monthly "within one hour of the aerodrome" flight.
I am now very lucky, I can afford more, I have a share in a good quality tourer that is invariably available and I often use it for business trips. Will I get bored? Maybe. However, I am now able to diversify (taildraggers, IMC, night, aeros etc) and I guess this will keep me interested.
I am now very lucky, I can afford more, I have a share in a good quality tourer that is invariably available and I often use it for business trips. Will I get bored? Maybe. However, I am now able to diversify (taildraggers, IMC, night, aeros etc) and I guess this will keep me interested.
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This is a v. interesting debate!
I think a lot of it comes down to people knowing what they want to do with the license once they get it.
For many flying from A to B wth no particular reason to do it apart from the fun of flying wears thin very quickly.
I passed my PPL in November and i've gone straight into Aerobatics. For me, the whole point of learning to fly was to 'do' aeros and i've been lucky to find an instructor and aeroplane (thanks for the steer, Stik!) that keeps it affordable (just) and definately keeps it fun. It's the best sport i've ever done in my life and I find that it really pushes me and develops my confidence in an aircraft.
I'd suggest that every club offers a package to newly qualified ppl's. You could purchase an aerobatics package, an air racing package, touring package etc. All areas of flying could be sold as a one off product developing increased revenues for clubs as well as providing that incentive to continue past the first year.
Many clubs do offer aerobatic/racing/touring/ type courses but in the same way that many of us have a carreer development plan why don't clubs give it's students a flying development plan. Set it out for the studes at the beginning.
Better still why can't we develop the PPL into these packages. I knew I wanted to do Aeros from the start so why couldn't my PPL have included a short course in aeros? Likewise for the pilot who wants to go abroad or take part in precision air racing. Let them do a PPL that centres on these areas of flying.
A bit of eduaction into the endless benefits of having a PPL at the beginning of the PPL course would pay handsomely in the long run.
I think a lot of it comes down to people knowing what they want to do with the license once they get it.
For many flying from A to B wth no particular reason to do it apart from the fun of flying wears thin very quickly.
I passed my PPL in November and i've gone straight into Aerobatics. For me, the whole point of learning to fly was to 'do' aeros and i've been lucky to find an instructor and aeroplane (thanks for the steer, Stik!) that keeps it affordable (just) and definately keeps it fun. It's the best sport i've ever done in my life and I find that it really pushes me and develops my confidence in an aircraft.
I'd suggest that every club offers a package to newly qualified ppl's. You could purchase an aerobatics package, an air racing package, touring package etc. All areas of flying could be sold as a one off product developing increased revenues for clubs as well as providing that incentive to continue past the first year.
Many clubs do offer aerobatic/racing/touring/ type courses but in the same way that many of us have a carreer development plan why don't clubs give it's students a flying development plan. Set it out for the studes at the beginning.
Better still why can't we develop the PPL into these packages. I knew I wanted to do Aeros from the start so why couldn't my PPL have included a short course in aeros? Likewise for the pilot who wants to go abroad or take part in precision air racing. Let them do a PPL that centres on these areas of flying.
A bit of eduaction into the endless benefits of having a PPL at the beginning of the PPL course would pay handsomely in the long run.
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IMHO,a big part of the reason people give up is that the current UK PPL training scene doesn't seem to believe that pilots should have fun, actually discourages them from the kind of flying which creates that fun and seems determined to engender such a fear of messing up that its no wonder people stop flying.
So we get pilots who have to create a plog for every trip. Who are scared of leaving the local area, plog or no plog. For whom diversions from the planned course are a big deal. Whose idea of a long trip is 2 hours. For whom a foriegn trip needs at least 6 months planning. Who think that its a big deal to call ATC because they might mess up the call. Who think its a big deal to get a zone transit. Or to fly low. Or to beat up a runway. Or a beach. For whom a steep turn is 35 degrees. And for whom being closer than a mile or so to another aircraft is dangerous. Who get the whiz wheel out to give an estimate of time to a point. Who still use a whiz wheel for goodness sake. Who divert in marginal but flyable conditions.
Please don't misunderstand. I do not advocate breaking height or visibility rules (much) or beating up noise sensitive villages. And I don't blame the pilots concerned; we all work within our experience levels. I do blame the system that produces them and fails to show them that there's more to flying than 2400ft straight and level. I just can't be surprised when pilots get bored of that within 2 years.
So we get pilots who have to create a plog for every trip. Who are scared of leaving the local area, plog or no plog. For whom diversions from the planned course are a big deal. Whose idea of a long trip is 2 hours. For whom a foriegn trip needs at least 6 months planning. Who think that its a big deal to call ATC because they might mess up the call. Who think its a big deal to get a zone transit. Or to fly low. Or to beat up a runway. Or a beach. For whom a steep turn is 35 degrees. And for whom being closer than a mile or so to another aircraft is dangerous. Who get the whiz wheel out to give an estimate of time to a point. Who still use a whiz wheel for goodness sake. Who divert in marginal but flyable conditions.
Please don't misunderstand. I do not advocate breaking height or visibility rules (much) or beating up noise sensitive villages. And I don't blame the pilots concerned; we all work within our experience levels. I do blame the system that produces them and fails to show them that there's more to flying than 2400ft straight and level. I just can't be surprised when pilots get bored of that within 2 years.
Grandpa Aerotart
Agree with the having safe fun thing...I regularly have fun in my1970 Bonanza ...along lonely stretches of Queensland beaches on offshore islands spotting whales and sharks and waggling the wings at surf fishermen...significantly lower than my day job (actually mostly night
) flying a 767.
I think after 24 yrs, two privately owned aircraft and 11000+ hrs I qualify for the order of the most very advanced anorak....even though 10500+ of those hrs have been 'work'...I still mostly don't look at my job as work...well approaching TOPD BKK-FRA after 12 hrs can seem like it.
I think for many, other than us fruitcakes, it's easy to see why people drop out....the aggravation/BS v reward quotient is very high these days...cost less so in a general sense, although it obviously is on an individual basis...people have proved this...just look at the boating boom of the last 20yrs next to the decidedly non boom in GA...the motorised kite and homebuilt sectors being somewhat of turnaround for aviation lite. People spend a LOT of money on boats!!!
Speaking of fun...I have an Mpeg of some french fellas flying a little French low wing ski plane around the French alps landing on glaciers...can stik or someone who as done it advise if it would be possible to organise some 'dual' doing this if on a 4 day FRA layover? Wha time of year is the weather stable enough to have a fighting chance at organising it and achieving one days flying out of 2 or 3? Approximate cost? Licencing?
This old tropical bush pilot would just kill to do that..landing on skis...got ****eloads of tailwheel time and 1000's of hours of very steep one way ops...possible or better do it on some annual leave?
Chuck
) flying a 767.I think after 24 yrs, two privately owned aircraft and 11000+ hrs I qualify for the order of the most very advanced anorak....even though 10500+ of those hrs have been 'work'...I still mostly don't look at my job as work...well approaching TOPD BKK-FRA after 12 hrs can seem like it.
I think for many, other than us fruitcakes, it's easy to see why people drop out....the aggravation/BS v reward quotient is very high these days...cost less so in a general sense, although it obviously is on an individual basis...people have proved this...just look at the boating boom of the last 20yrs next to the decidedly non boom in GA...the motorised kite and homebuilt sectors being somewhat of turnaround for aviation lite. People spend a LOT of money on boats!!!
Speaking of fun...I have an Mpeg of some french fellas flying a little French low wing ski plane around the French alps landing on glaciers...can stik or someone who as done it advise if it would be possible to organise some 'dual' doing this if on a 4 day FRA layover? Wha time of year is the weather stable enough to have a fighting chance at organising it and achieving one days flying out of 2 or 3? Approximate cost? Licencing?
This old tropical bush pilot would just kill to do that..landing on skis...got ****eloads of tailwheel time and 1000's of hours of very steep one way ops...possible or better do it on some annual leave?
Chuck
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 6th Dec 2004 at 13:53.
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The 5% who do not get bored with flying because like me, whether 2400' s&l or doing aero's, flying is flying. I personally think its a great privilege. However that said, why can't something along the lines of glidings, bronze, silver, gold award be introduced to further your flying achievement, instead of the IMC, night, twin route that many seem to take.
Bob Manners organised the Around Britain Air Rally, for the reason of pushing the envelope with like minded people. One on the rally had just passed his PPL and had done about 20 hours before entering the rally, others had some 800 hours!
Bob Manners organised the Around Britain Air Rally, for the reason of pushing the envelope with like minded people. One on the rally had just passed his PPL and had done about 20 hours before entering the rally, others had some 800 hours!
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I am just waiting for IO540 to appear, but in the meantime I will pre-empt him..........
As well as the many reasons stated here for giving up flying, there is also a few other things that puts people off. Crappy airplanes with knackered avionics and seats. Who wants to throw away a weeks food money on flying something that looks like it should be condemned?
The attitude of many "old timers" towards modern technology, the use of GPS, the use of electronic flight computers etc. The attitude that pervades flying that if people are not navigating using a stop watch and a compass then they are not proper pilots, puts doubt into peoples minds and starts to make them feel inferior and lack confidence. Once that starts then they start to fly only when the conditions are perfect and as those opportunites start to dwindle due to the endless bad weather we experiance there interest starts to dwindle and then they stop finding time to fly.
The same goes for tailwheel and aeros, everyone seems to think that they are justified in convincing others that there chosen path in flying is the "best way" to go to the point of making people feel inadiquate if they do not conform.
I long ago stopped listening to the "experts" and went and did my own thing, I use GPS, I have cracking avionics fit in airacraft that suits my needs and with a thousand hours on it have had a of of fun.
I am broadening my horizons with a conversion onto a supercub, but I doubt very much it will encourage me to shout to everyone in earshot that they should only fly a tailwheel and navigate by map stopwatch or they are not proper pilots. And will I stop flying the Duchess and the Baron or my Cessna because I can now fly a tailwheel cub? I doubt it, why? Because I enjoy the climb through cloud and the cruise in the sunshine before executing (what I hope!) is a perfect ILS into an airfield before a night out for dinner.
We should encourage people to experiance everything flying has to offer but not try to force people into pidgeon holes.
I guess by now I am probably in the super anorak stage?
As well as the many reasons stated here for giving up flying, there is also a few other things that puts people off. Crappy airplanes with knackered avionics and seats. Who wants to throw away a weeks food money on flying something that looks like it should be condemned?
The attitude of many "old timers" towards modern technology, the use of GPS, the use of electronic flight computers etc. The attitude that pervades flying that if people are not navigating using a stop watch and a compass then they are not proper pilots, puts doubt into peoples minds and starts to make them feel inferior and lack confidence. Once that starts then they start to fly only when the conditions are perfect and as those opportunites start to dwindle due to the endless bad weather we experiance there interest starts to dwindle and then they stop finding time to fly.
The same goes for tailwheel and aeros, everyone seems to think that they are justified in convincing others that there chosen path in flying is the "best way" to go to the point of making people feel inadiquate if they do not conform.
I long ago stopped listening to the "experts" and went and did my own thing, I use GPS, I have cracking avionics fit in airacraft that suits my needs and with a thousand hours on it have had a of of fun.
I am broadening my horizons with a conversion onto a supercub, but I doubt very much it will encourage me to shout to everyone in earshot that they should only fly a tailwheel and navigate by map stopwatch or they are not proper pilots. And will I stop flying the Duchess and the Baron or my Cessna because I can now fly a tailwheel cub? I doubt it, why? Because I enjoy the climb through cloud and the cruise in the sunshine before executing (what I hope!) is a perfect ILS into an airfield before a night out for dinner.
We should encourage people to experiance everything flying has to offer but not try to force people into pidgeon holes.
I guess by now I am probably in the super anorak stage?
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Bose-x,
You are only just converting to a supercub, huh? Won't take long before you are a tailwheel bigot
like the rest of us 
You can put lots of sexy avionics and GPS in that panel too, and you can go the same places as you can in a nosedragger.
Well seeing as I'm posting now.... I am unfortunate enough to have citizenships on both sides of the Atlantic (absolute nightmare on tax front) and have given up flying too much in one of my regulatory residences but not the other. My loss perhaps, but from where I sit logical.
You are only just converting to a supercub, huh? Won't take long before you are a tailwheel bigot
like the rest of us You can put lots of sexy avionics and GPS in that panel too, and you can go the same places as you can in a nosedragger.Well seeing as I'm posting now.... I am unfortunate enough to have citizenships on both sides of the Atlantic (absolute nightmare on tax front) and have given up flying too much in one of my regulatory residences but not the other. My loss perhaps, but from where I sit logical.
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This thread seems like the other one here.
Lots of good points mentioned. But what's realistically going to get done?
There are things which could be done but won't be because almost nobody in the business has the money. Like getting modern planes (and then doing some imaginative marketing to attract people who can REALLY afford this hobby).
There are things which could be done but won't be because almost nobody in the business has the imagination. Like a lot of little things.
Perhaps the most obvious in the latter category is retaining (in the club) people who have their PPL.
Today, when you get your PPL, you are out on your own - unless the school/club reckon they can extract some more money from you for the NQ or IMCR. After which you are definitely out on your own for good, not least because you will have realised that most instructors don't fly anywhere so it's no use asking them how you could get to somewhere warm and sunny
And being on your own is pretty hard. I am an owner and apart from longer trips (business or long trips UK/abroad) I fly at least once a week just for currency. This costs a bit of money. I have a small group of friends, all IR types, who rent the plane. We support each other with a booking site, operating tips, etc, but apart from that we are totally on our own, outside the GA establishment. We do our flight planning at home or with wireless-enabled laptops.
Next is hire. I am sure most would agree that self fly hire is the worst way to stay current (it carries the highest possible marginal cost, the planes tend to be in the poorest condition, and take-away options are most limited) so the answer is a syndicate, or ownership. Yet few schools/clubs/instructors will encourage this because they want every possible last penny of your self fly hire money.
Even a simple change in the attitude to existing PPLs would do a lot. Provide them with support e.g. flight planning facilities, advice on trips, organise flyouts. The really really controversial thing would be to encourage students to fly with them!! Controversial because the schools wants every penny the student has to be spent on lessons.
A school/club (what's the difference?) should encourage PPLs to get into some sort of commitment (e.g. by selling off shares in their planes, in return for a lower hourly rate). Presently, PPLs that get into an ownership arrangement outside the school/club tend to not be encouraged to join in flyouts because schools like to make flyouts fully chargeable on each leg, and "people that come with a plane" might pinch some of the people who might otherwise have paid the self fly hire + instructor rate....
Lots of other little things that would help.
No use advertising a quality business, selling a £100/hr product, in a free local rag, because the people that read those are people who cannot afford to buy a real rag. Yet schools just love adverts in the free local papers. A great way to get birthday party pleasure flights from the local council estate, with enough body piercings to affect the W&B (sorry but I've seen lots of those, and they always used to get priority before my prebooked lessons)
But this has been done to death here and elsewhere and nothing ever changes. Most people drop out; a very small % of "anoraks" stay behind and they form the social scene at airfields, which in turn ensures that the only people that stay are either anoraks (99% males - another way to destroy any potentially interesting activity), or those who have a real incentive to fly.
People entering this "sport" need to be told the real costs of getting a PPL, the need to get instrument qualified, the cost of keeping long-term current. And one needs to get a lot more girlz to come along! Nowadays, plenty of girlz have their own money!!
The more one writes on this the more one goes around in circles.
bose-x you timed your comment very well
Lots of good points mentioned. But what's realistically going to get done?
There are things which could be done but won't be because almost nobody in the business has the money. Like getting modern planes (and then doing some imaginative marketing to attract people who can REALLY afford this hobby).
There are things which could be done but won't be because almost nobody in the business has the imagination. Like a lot of little things.
Perhaps the most obvious in the latter category is retaining (in the club) people who have their PPL.
Today, when you get your PPL, you are out on your own - unless the school/club reckon they can extract some more money from you for the NQ or IMCR. After which you are definitely out on your own for good, not least because you will have realised that most instructors don't fly anywhere so it's no use asking them how you could get to somewhere warm and sunny
And being on your own is pretty hard. I am an owner and apart from longer trips (business or long trips UK/abroad) I fly at least once a week just for currency. This costs a bit of money. I have a small group of friends, all IR types, who rent the plane. We support each other with a booking site, operating tips, etc, but apart from that we are totally on our own, outside the GA establishment. We do our flight planning at home or with wireless-enabled laptops.
Next is hire. I am sure most would agree that self fly hire is the worst way to stay current (it carries the highest possible marginal cost, the planes tend to be in the poorest condition, and take-away options are most limited) so the answer is a syndicate, or ownership. Yet few schools/clubs/instructors will encourage this because they want every possible last penny of your self fly hire money.
Even a simple change in the attitude to existing PPLs would do a lot. Provide them with support e.g. flight planning facilities, advice on trips, organise flyouts. The really really controversial thing would be to encourage students to fly with them!! Controversial because the schools wants every penny the student has to be spent on lessons.
A school/club (what's the difference?) should encourage PPLs to get into some sort of commitment (e.g. by selling off shares in their planes, in return for a lower hourly rate). Presently, PPLs that get into an ownership arrangement outside the school/club tend to not be encouraged to join in flyouts because schools like to make flyouts fully chargeable on each leg, and "people that come with a plane" might pinch some of the people who might otherwise have paid the self fly hire + instructor rate....
Lots of other little things that would help.
No use advertising a quality business, selling a £100/hr product, in a free local rag, because the people that read those are people who cannot afford to buy a real rag. Yet schools just love adverts in the free local papers. A great way to get birthday party pleasure flights from the local council estate, with enough body piercings to affect the W&B (sorry
but I've seen lots of those, and they always used to get priority before my prebooked lessons)But this has been done to death here and elsewhere and nothing ever changes. Most people drop out; a very small % of "anoraks" stay behind and they form the social scene at airfields, which in turn ensures that the only people that stay are either anoraks (99% males - another way to destroy any potentially interesting activity), or those who have a real incentive to fly.
People entering this "sport" need to be told the real costs of getting a PPL, the need to get instrument qualified, the cost of keeping long-term current. And one needs to get a lot more girlz to come along! Nowadays, plenty of girlz have their own money!!
The more one writes on this the more one goes around in circles.
bose-x you timed your comment very well