What would you deem to be a fair Landing Fee?
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So what is the future for these clubs/training organiastions based at provincial airports (sorry - shopping malls) which think they are LHR?
Pertinant at this time of year is the Christmas Present Trial Lesson, which not only keeps the Instuctors in a job for the next 6 months at many of these 'non dedicated training airfields' but also keeps the airplanes there which many rent.
Landing fees must be included in the price of the 'Trial Lesson' which in turn raises the overall price of the 'Lesson' way beyond that which an Airfield outside these restrictions can charge.
Slippy slope.
So, et al, What would you deem to be a fair Landing Fee?
Currently driving nice 240DL in Beige.
VD
Pertinant at this time of year is the Christmas Present Trial Lesson, which not only keeps the Instuctors in a job for the next 6 months at many of these 'non dedicated training airfields' but also keeps the airplanes there which many rent.
Landing fees must be included in the price of the 'Trial Lesson' which in turn raises the overall price of the 'Lesson' way beyond that which an Airfield outside these restrictions can charge.
Slippy slope.
So, et al, What would you deem to be a fair Landing Fee?
Currently driving nice 240DL in Beige.
VD
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Volvo,
Be careful not to confuse the issue by bringing trial lessons into it. I suspect that the majority of flying schools have negotiated vastly discounted landing fees for their own aircraft at their home field. So the price which a visiting aircraft pays to land is not connected to the price of a Christmas Present Trial Lesson.
FFF
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Be careful not to confuse the issue by bringing trial lessons into it. I suspect that the majority of flying schools have negotiated vastly discounted landing fees for their own aircraft at their home field. So the price which a visiting aircraft pays to land is not connected to the price of a Christmas Present Trial Lesson.
FFF
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I am quite happy to pay between £5 and £10 for landing/handling fees. Not the £45 I was charged at Bristol Lulsgate 2 weeks ago!
I would understand if I was flying an enormous a/c but I think £45 is a bit steep for a warrior.
I would understand if I was flying an enormous a/c but I think £45 is a bit steep for a warrior.
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A fair price for a landing fee is one that allows the operator to make the most profit from his investment. That is not necessarily a high price. Tesco and Asda are hugely profitable but they don't do it by charging the highest prices.
Clearly there's a trade-off of increased costs versus increased business. If you provide full ATC, fire cover. lighting and an ILS your costs are a lot higher than if you are unlicensed and those costs have to be met by users. This tends to mean they have to attract business and commercial users who require and are willing to pay for these services. The fees for SEP VFR types then get adjusted to make sure that the volume of such movements does not adversely affect the airfield's ability to accept higher value traffic.
I don't need all the bells and whistles so I tend not to use the fully stacked airfields unless I need to. Ergo the smaller and less expensive airfields tend to get my cash.
Mike
Clearly there's a trade-off of increased costs versus increased business. If you provide full ATC, fire cover. lighting and an ILS your costs are a lot higher than if you are unlicensed and those costs have to be met by users. This tends to mean they have to attract business and commercial users who require and are willing to pay for these services. The fees for SEP VFR types then get adjusted to make sure that the volume of such movements does not adversely affect the airfield's ability to accept higher value traffic.
I don't need all the bells and whistles so I tend not to use the fully stacked airfields unless I need to. Ergo the smaller and less expensive airfields tend to get my cash.
Mike
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I'd say £4-£8 for a weekend bimble destination: £100 bacon sarnie scenario.
£10-£15 for a jolly to a particular destination (ie, stopping overnight, going to the beach, lunch at a good pub etc).
£10-£20 for a business trip to an airfield with good facilities and close to my destination. I'd expect 4-6 hrs parking (on grass) for free, and I'd be happy with paying £10 overnight.
If I was heading for a major airport in "any" weather and wanted to know that I'd be able to get in (and the company is footing the bill), then I'd be happy to book in and pay up to £30 (no nasty extras) for the privelege of a guarenteed safe approach.
An NDB for that money is taking the piss though. So would a simple ATIS/App/Twr service - I'd expect radar vectors/monitoring as well!
£10-£15 for a jolly to a particular destination (ie, stopping overnight, going to the beach, lunch at a good pub etc).
£10-£20 for a business trip to an airfield with good facilities and close to my destination. I'd expect 4-6 hrs parking (on grass) for free, and I'd be happy with paying £10 overnight.
If I was heading for a major airport in "any" weather and wanted to know that I'd be able to get in (and the company is footing the bill), then I'd be happy to book in and pay up to £30 (no nasty extras) for the privelege of a guarenteed safe approach.
An NDB for that money is taking the piss though. So would a simple ATIS/App/Twr service - I'd expect radar vectors/monitoring as well!
Avoid imitations
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"If I was heading for a major airport in "any" weather and wanted to know that I'd be able to get in (and the company is footing the bill), then I'd be happy to book in and pay up to £30 (no nasty extras) for the privelege of a guarenteed safe approach."
Dusty_B,
You had better not go to EGTE without checking how much in advance or you might have a nasty shock - I recently signed a bill for over £500 for two landings, an overnight stop and two taxis. That did not include fuel. The handling consisted of a minibus to and from the aircraft for 4 people and a marshaller.
I wouldn't personally pay that much, my company is about to pick up the bill......
Dusty_B,
You had better not go to EGTE without checking how much in advance or you might have a nasty shock - I recently signed a bill for over £500 for two landings, an overnight stop and two taxis. That did not include fuel. The handling consisted of a minibus to and from the aircraft for 4 people and a marshaller.
I wouldn't personally pay that much, my company is about to pick up the bill......
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sub £10 for a single. Then put a good airside restaraunt, and they'd make another £10 profit from everyone and we'd all be happy 
Jersey charges £9 and gives free parking for about a week, which is a good deal.
I have been charged £90 at Edinburgh (CAA Navigation charge, landing fee, handling fee, over night parking fee) and that was before the £40 bill for the taxi to the hotel, which no doubt included a 20% handling charge by the handling company!
Jersey charges £9 and gives free parking for about a week, which is a good deal.
I have been charged £90 at Edinburgh (CAA Navigation charge, landing fee, handling fee, over night parking fee) and that was before the £40 bill for the taxi to the hotel, which no doubt included a 20% handling charge by the handling company!
Avoid imitations
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Genghis asks "you weren't the chap who took a 747 in were you?"
Nowhere near as big as a 747 and we only used about 100 feet of the runway
Nowhere near as big as a 747 and we only used about 100 feet of the runway
Better red than ...
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Depends on the field.
A good site with good cafe and nice staff are worth at least £10 if not a little more.
A basic site, £5
A major airport where you fit in rather than disrupting traffic £20.
Good also if there is a deal around "buy X amount of fuel and no landing fee". Everybody wins then.
Some discrepancy between rotary and fixed wing. Rotary often use less assets on landing but get charge the same as a runway/ taxi way user.
Personally I often make a landing payment even when it is waived to keep certain fields open for the future. What is a £5 if it helps long term solvency of a good field? After all, no field, no fly.
A good site with good cafe and nice staff are worth at least £10 if not a little more.
A basic site, £5
A major airport where you fit in rather than disrupting traffic £20.
Good also if there is a deal around "buy X amount of fuel and no landing fee". Everybody wins then.
Some discrepancy between rotary and fixed wing. Rotary often use less assets on landing but get charge the same as a runway/ taxi way user.
Personally I often make a landing payment even when it is waived to keep certain fields open for the future. What is a £5 if it helps long term solvency of a good field? After all, no field, no fly.
Gizajob
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Wouldn't necessarily say that rotary imposes less strain on the 'assets' - they will be handled by the radio, attended by the fire vehicles (God forbid) and supplied with fuel. They don't generally wear out runways much, but then runway wear isn't a major part of the landing fee at most GA places - it's more about how many people need paying to support your flight.
Personally, I would pay up to £10 for a smooth grass airfield with a good cafe and up to £15 for a tarmac palace with the works. Some of the landing fees being charged in the UK are outrageous (£10 for a microlight at Sywell for a start!) and not enough operators are making an effort to sort out reciprocal arrangements or fuel/ food tie-ins.
Personally, I would pay up to £10 for a smooth grass airfield with a good cafe and up to £15 for a tarmac palace with the works. Some of the landing fees being charged in the UK are outrageous (£10 for a microlight at Sywell for a start!) and not enough operators are making an effort to sort out reciprocal arrangements or fuel/ food tie-ins.
Better red than ...
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I was thinking specifically of the manouevering area. Clearly FW will gradually wear the surface and there is a cost to building new runways etc (Good on Sherburn for building one a while back).
Agree on people and services. Generally these are a fixed cost, so are the same whether they are 'worked out' all day (i.e. Denham) or have long quiet spells (i.e. Sheffield).
So if a field has taken a staffing and facilities decsion then these costs will be bourne anyway.
Where both rotary and FW co-habit the costs are generally lower for everybody, and there is a better mix in the fields community.
The best solution is at the fields that charge according to facilities used, so rotary tends to pay less here (but still contributes).
h-r
Agree on people and services. Generally these are a fixed cost, so are the same whether they are 'worked out' all day (i.e. Denham) or have long quiet spells (i.e. Sheffield).
So if a field has taken a staffing and facilities decsion then these costs will be bourne anyway.
Where both rotary and FW co-habit the costs are generally lower for everybody, and there is a better mix in the fields community.
The best solution is at the fields that charge according to facilities used, so rotary tends to pay less here (but still contributes).
h-r
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Sounds like a question in those questionaires an airline will send to its customers for market research purposes.
Q. What is a fair price to pay to rent a headset on a long haul flight?
A1. £5
A2. £10
A3. £15
What about £0????
So everybody says £5, and a few months later the airline says 'We have asked our customers about renting headsets, and 85% say they would be happy to pay £5, so to show we listen to our customers, that's what we are going to do'. A shame the tax on AVGAS is spent on other good causes
Q. What is a fair price to pay to rent a headset on a long haul flight?
A1. £5
A2. £10
A3. £15
What about £0????
So everybody says £5, and a few months later the airline says 'We have asked our customers about renting headsets, and 85% say they would be happy to pay £5, so to show we listen to our customers, that's what we are going to do'. A shame the tax on AVGAS is spent on other good causes
to the couple of you who have said £0, how do you justify this?
The airport provides facilities, services and people to enable you to go flying. It also carries out maintenance to keep these facilities and services in working order for you to go flying.
Pray tell, what is the magic formula that says they can do this without getting some income by charging you?
The airport provides facilities, services and people to enable you to go flying. It also carries out maintenance to keep these facilities and services in working order for you to go flying.
Pray tell, what is the magic formula that says they can do this without getting some income by charging you?
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Pray tell, what is the magic formula that says they can do this without getting some income by charging you?
Trouble is, it probably wouldn't work in the UK. People would put the restaraunt on the field, AND charge a landing fee.....
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"restaraunt on the field?"
We often rest ar aunt on the field when we take her out for a walk. She doesn't like it much as she is scared of cows.
We sometimes take her to the restaurant on the way home.
We often rest ar aunt on the field when we take her out for a walk. She doesn't like it much as she is scared of cows.
We sometimes take her to the restaurant on the way home.