California Flying Holiday
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California Flying Holiday
Hi there, I have done a search on hour building in California and not quite found the information I was after. So thought I'd post a couple of questions here and pick your brains. Hopefully you can help me out.
My brother and I are both airline pilots with a bit of a hankering for the good old days of our hour-building in California. We both did our time there a few years ago (I hired a Warrior from ADP and he did it from Rainbow) touring around for a few weeks. We visited all the usual places (LA, Vegas, San Francisco and most places in between).
Anyway, we are going back in April for a flying holiday and have a couple of questions for you. Firstly, any good recommendations on where to hire an aircraft from? Ideally we don't want to do the hour-builders amount of time (it is a holiday after all), so no restrictions on having to fly for 4 hours every day. However, we would like to take it away for a couple of weeks so we can do some good touring and not have to deliver it back to the school every night. Thinking along the lines of something like a 152/172/Warrior or similar, and obviously something in reasonable condition. Probably hire from somewhere in the LA area, simply because that's the easiest place to get to from the UK.
At the time we're thinking of going (April) we are assuming the Californian weather will do us proud, are we correct? Sunny and not too chilly? Good weather for VFR touring?
Obviously we both had British and FAA PPL's, but they have since lapsed. What would be the requirements to revalidate the FAA one once we get to America?
And finally, any good suggestions on some places/airports we might like to visit? To be honest, we've found a fair bit on this subject via the search function, but if you have any gems that are lurking out there that would be worth flying into then they'd be appreciated.
Thanks very much for your help,
Billy M
My brother and I are both airline pilots with a bit of a hankering for the good old days of our hour-building in California. We both did our time there a few years ago (I hired a Warrior from ADP and he did it from Rainbow) touring around for a few weeks. We visited all the usual places (LA, Vegas, San Francisco and most places in between).
Anyway, we are going back in April for a flying holiday and have a couple of questions for you. Firstly, any good recommendations on where to hire an aircraft from? Ideally we don't want to do the hour-builders amount of time (it is a holiday after all), so no restrictions on having to fly for 4 hours every day. However, we would like to take it away for a couple of weeks so we can do some good touring and not have to deliver it back to the school every night. Thinking along the lines of something like a 152/172/Warrior or similar, and obviously something in reasonable condition. Probably hire from somewhere in the LA area, simply because that's the easiest place to get to from the UK.
At the time we're thinking of going (April) we are assuming the Californian weather will do us proud, are we correct? Sunny and not too chilly? Good weather for VFR touring?
Obviously we both had British and FAA PPL's, but they have since lapsed. What would be the requirements to revalidate the FAA one once we get to America?
And finally, any good suggestions on some places/airports we might like to visit? To be honest, we've found a fair bit on this subject via the search function, but if you have any gems that are lurking out there that would be worth flying into then they'd be appreciated.
Thanks very much for your help,
Billy M
Where
There are 10001 FBOs at Long beach, which is a horribly complex and smog-ridden airport, but if you're both ATPLs I'm sure you'll find your way out without trouble. The locals do everything by GPS these days, but may grudgingly leave a barely serviceable VOR in the plane.
I hired from one last year and they had the most appauling and dodgy fleet I've ever used - so I'd not recommend them, except that I've lost details of who they were. There was an outfit there hiring AMF aircraft, a slightly unusual type and a little more expensive but the looked much nicer and if I went back I'd probably give them a go.
Places
I enjoyed Mojave for it's sheer novely, have been into a lovely little gliding field called "Warner Springs" where given more time I might have stayed a day or two and done some gliding, enjoyed the friendly little municipal airfield called "Thermal" at Palm Springs, and Palm Springs itself - just because it is!
I've not yet managed Catalina, but everybody tells me that it's the destination in CA and apparently the Buffalo burgers are fantastic.
Also, a rather nice little "one-horse town" with a runway and some nice walks and eateries is "Yucca Valley" which is listed on the chart as an air park, but isn't.
Documents
The eastern US flight guide sold by Pooleys is the same one all the locals use, so no harm in buying one now for forward planning, it comes with a year's updates anyhow.
I shall leave others to comment on the PPL issues, I'm not up to speed enough, but hope that gives you a few steers.
G
There are 10001 FBOs at Long beach, which is a horribly complex and smog-ridden airport, but if you're both ATPLs I'm sure you'll find your way out without trouble. The locals do everything by GPS these days, but may grudgingly leave a barely serviceable VOR in the plane.
I hired from one last year and they had the most appauling and dodgy fleet I've ever used - so I'd not recommend them, except that I've lost details of who they were. There was an outfit there hiring AMF aircraft, a slightly unusual type and a little more expensive but the looked much nicer and if I went back I'd probably give them a go.
Places
I enjoyed Mojave for it's sheer novely, have been into a lovely little gliding field called "Warner Springs" where given more time I might have stayed a day or two and done some gliding, enjoyed the friendly little municipal airfield called "Thermal" at Palm Springs, and Palm Springs itself - just because it is!
I've not yet managed Catalina, but everybody tells me that it's the destination in CA and apparently the Buffalo burgers are fantastic.
Also, a rather nice little "one-horse town" with a runway and some nice walks and eateries is "Yucca Valley" which is listed on the chart as an air park, but isn't.
Documents
The eastern US flight guide sold by Pooleys is the same one all the locals use, so no harm in buying one now for forward planning, it comes with a year's updates anyhow.
I shall leave others to comment on the PPL issues, I'm not up to speed enough, but hope that gives you a few steers.
G
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Thanks for the reply.
Long Beach is indeed smog-ridden, got stuck there for an entire weekend once.
Never been to Catalina - the locals treated it (the 2 times I've been there) as a "special" airfield which roughly translates as "pay me a fortune to take you there for an airport familiarisation flight".
Cheers for the other advice.
Long Beach is indeed smog-ridden, got stuck there for an entire weekend once.
Never been to Catalina - the locals treated it (the 2 times I've been there) as a "special" airfield which roughly translates as "pay me a fortune to take you there for an airport familiarisation flight".
Cheers for the other advice.
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If you have done California several years ago why not try somewhere else? USA is huge and plenty of other places to see. Southwest Airlines have a bus like service out of LAX and you are only $100 round trip from places like PHX or LAS. AZ, NM, UT, NV and CO have some pretty sweet flying. If you want a very well maintained fleet then Falcon Executive at Falcon Field near PHX will look after you, call them up and see if you can do a deal, google for the web site. I'd go a bit more powerful than a 172/warrior though, budget on $100 per hour for something a bit more useful at high DH and you will not be far off.
Sounds like you will need a BFR and a medical. If you have an FAA IR then an IPC with an instructor should sort you out. If you don't have an IR then some places will not hire for a long trip, don't think the place I mentioned has this limitation. If you end up going to PHX then PM me and I'll give you a medical examiner who will get you in and out in five minutes.
Sounds like you will need a BFR and a medical. If you have an FAA IR then an IPC with an instructor should sort you out. If you don't have an IR then some places will not hire for a long trip, don't think the place I mentioned has this limitation. If you end up going to PHX then PM me and I'll give you a medical examiner who will get you in and out in five minutes.
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AMF aircraft
A fantastic 2 seater composite affair, faster than a 172 SP, comfortable, modern with twin Garmin 430's, and a joy to fly especially for $81 per hour wet.....With the 5 point harnesses and bucket seats, you'd think it should be aerobatic....
I'll never fly a dodgey old 152 again
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I highly recomend Justice Aviation at SMO,
Ok, I admit I may be biased as I used to teach there, but they really are a quality bunch and have very clean eqiupment at reasonable prices. Lots of Brit flight crews go there to rent, so that should tell you something.
Catatlina is a fun destination but requires a specific instructor check-out as does Big Bear up in the mountains. Santa Paula is another one worth checking out and the restaurant in Camarillo serves awesome pancakes. I could go on and on with recomendations, PM me if you want more.
Justice Aviation; (310) 313 6792
I'm sure they have a web site under Justiceaviation.com or something
By the way, your FAA PPL cannot "expire", a biennial flight review from a flight instructor is all that is required to make you legal, which, at the discretion of the CFI could be combined with your aircraft check out. Your medicals are a different story, I don't recall if your UK ones will suffice or not. If that is the case, PM me and I can give you the number of a good ME in the LA area who will get you your class III for $70.
AD
Ok, I admit I may be biased as I used to teach there, but they really are a quality bunch and have very clean eqiupment at reasonable prices. Lots of Brit flight crews go there to rent, so that should tell you something.
Catatlina is a fun destination but requires a specific instructor check-out as does Big Bear up in the mountains. Santa Paula is another one worth checking out and the restaurant in Camarillo serves awesome pancakes. I could go on and on with recomendations, PM me if you want more.
Justice Aviation; (310) 313 6792
I'm sure they have a web site under Justiceaviation.com or something
By the way, your FAA PPL cannot "expire", a biennial flight review from a flight instructor is all that is required to make you legal, which, at the discretion of the CFI could be combined with your aircraft check out. Your medicals are a different story, I don't recall if your UK ones will suffice or not. If that is the case, PM me and I can give you the number of a good ME in the LA area who will get you your class III for $70.
AD
Last edited by Astra driver; 8th Nov 2004 at 21:44.
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Billy M,
I'm in the same situation as you. A Friend and I are looking to go to florida to do a long trip from there across the top of the gulf of mexico to New orleans, Houston, Phoenix, and then up to Vegas and back (about 40-45hrs).
Having done loads of research we have settled on an outfit called www.sunstateaviation.com . This is because;
1)They have a fleet of new or nearly new 172SP's, so you won't run into problems re 50hr checks as they have confirmed that they can provide one with low/no hrs since the last check.
2)They only require a $200 deposit prior to arriving in the US (some companies have a habit of going bust with large sums of your cash)
3) They have no insurance restriction on flying from one state to another. This proved the biggest barrier as most companies impose all sorts of restrictions on staying away from base.
4) They generally seem the slickest/ most helpful outfit in general i.e they answer e-mails within a few hours unlike most who don't bother at all!!
Obviously all of the above advice is based on my dealings with them so far which has been back here in the UK. Once I have actually been, I'll be able to give you much more accurate feedback .
Hope this helps,
Jimbo
Sunstate Aviation
I'm in the same situation as you. A Friend and I are looking to go to florida to do a long trip from there across the top of the gulf of mexico to New orleans, Houston, Phoenix, and then up to Vegas and back (about 40-45hrs).
Having done loads of research we have settled on an outfit called www.sunstateaviation.com . This is because;
1)They have a fleet of new or nearly new 172SP's, so you won't run into problems re 50hr checks as they have confirmed that they can provide one with low/no hrs since the last check.
2)They only require a $200 deposit prior to arriving in the US (some companies have a habit of going bust with large sums of your cash)
3) They have no insurance restriction on flying from one state to another. This proved the biggest barrier as most companies impose all sorts of restrictions on staying away from base.
4) They generally seem the slickest/ most helpful outfit in general i.e they answer e-mails within a few hours unlike most who don't bother at all!!
Obviously all of the above advice is based on my dealings with them so far which has been back here in the UK. Once I have actually been, I'll be able to give you much more accurate feedback .
Hope this helps,
Jimbo
Sunstate Aviation
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Hi there,
Thanks to everyone for the replies, some good advice which is much appreciated.
As for the question of trying somewhere other than the West Coast, it's a good idea I suppose as we've both done that area. The reason we were planning on going there again is a combination of the wx and the fact that there's so much there - from mountains to desert to coast, plus some great cities. It just seems like a good place for doing this sort of trip. However, anywhere is possible - we'll have to have a think about it.
As for the various suggestions on places to hire aircraft from, thanks very much. I've had a look at all those you've suggested and I'll get in contact with them as to the finer points of the conditions of renting etc. They all seem to offer far nicer a/c than I am used to from my previous trip!!
Also thanks for the information about BFR/Medical. Just what I needed to know.
Cheers
Billy M
Thanks to everyone for the replies, some good advice which is much appreciated.
As for the question of trying somewhere other than the West Coast, it's a good idea I suppose as we've both done that area. The reason we were planning on going there again is a combination of the wx and the fact that there's so much there - from mountains to desert to coast, plus some great cities. It just seems like a good place for doing this sort of trip. However, anywhere is possible - we'll have to have a think about it.
As for the various suggestions on places to hire aircraft from, thanks very much. I've had a look at all those you've suggested and I'll get in contact with them as to the finer points of the conditions of renting etc. They all seem to offer far nicer a/c than I am used to from my previous trip!!
Also thanks for the information about BFR/Medical. Just what I needed to know.
Cheers
Billy M
Last edited by Billy M; 11th Nov 2004 at 10:09.
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Try Long Beach Flight Centre based at Long Beach airport. They have BRAND NEW aircraft.
C172SP - $110/Hr (just flew one today with 20hrs on the hobbs
)
C182 - $155/Hr (These are fitted with twin Garmin G1000s!!!!)
Absolutely excellent kit at very reasonable prices. They also have the OMF Symphany for $85/hr and an old but reasonably well flying Duchess for $175/Hr
I am going to winch going back to the UK and paying £120/hr for a completely knackered PA28-161 with INOP stickers all over it again........
Julian.
C172SP - $110/Hr (just flew one today with 20hrs on the hobbs
)C182 - $155/Hr (These are fitted with twin Garmin G1000s!!!!)
Absolutely excellent kit at very reasonable prices. They also have the OMF Symphany for $85/hr and an old but reasonably well flying Duchess for $175/Hr
I am going to winch going back to the UK and paying £120/hr for a completely knackered PA28-161 with INOP stickers all over it again........
Julian.
I am going to winch going back to the UK and paying £120/hr for a completely knackered PA28-161 with INOP stickers all over it again
Still rather more expensive than US rates, I'll grant you (particularly at the current exchange rate) - but rather better than £120/hr, and generally pretty good aeroplanes. That said, like most other people at Popham I belong to a syndicate and pay around half the local rental rates for a very nice aeroplane without an INOP sticker in site.
G
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JULIAN - Thanks for the reply. Tried to find out some more info about Long Beach Flight Centre but no luck... Not even listed as as a business on the official Long Beach Airport site.
Have they got a website?
Thanks again.
Have they got a website?
Thanks again.
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Its California Flight Center at www.californiaflightcenter.com
Julian is correct, they have some splendid planes, and recently took over Hart Aviation, so have a bunch of aerobatic Robins to play with too....
They have a couple of all glass cockpit 172's / 182's and will be getting a couple of all glass TwinStars next year which I am looking forward to....
Julian is correct, they have some splendid planes, and recently took over Hart Aviation, so have a bunch of aerobatic Robins to play with too....
They have a couple of all glass cockpit 172's / 182's and will be getting a couple of all glass TwinStars next year which I am looking forward to....
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Thanks for the link, all looks very professional, things have come on a bit since my student days!
Good website, particularly like the fact that they link to operating manuals.
Also pretty keen on the 15-hour requirement for a week's rental. Any idea whether there are any other restrictions? I know, for example, that certain places require an IR for insurance reasons when taking an aircraft on a trip - I'm sure my JAA 737 IR won't cut it in the US!
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PILOTWOLF - you have PM
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Good website, particularly like the fact that they link to operating manuals.
Also pretty keen on the 15-hour requirement for a week's rental. Any idea whether there are any other restrictions? I know, for example, that certain places require an IR for insurance reasons when taking an aircraft on a trip - I'm sure my JAA 737 IR won't cut it in the US!
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PILOTWOLF - you have PM
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I'm sure my JAA 737 IR won't cut it in the US!
Why not? It's an ICAO licence and the FAA is one of the most flexible regulating authorities around. Just because JAR isn't.....
You need to take a computer test which shows you understand the 'air law' of FAA instrument flight, called the Instrument Foreign Pilot test. You can even get the questions on the FAA web site so can have it all revised before you arrive. No flight test required.
You can take the test all over the place. You probably need to jump through hoops to get the CAA to send your details to the FAA before you arrive. Then I'd advise an IPC with an instructor, which you can include in your club check out and BFR.
FAA web site for a start. As for immigration requirements, I don't have a clue anymore, and I'd guess it is the same for your chosen flight school
Why not? It's an ICAO licence and the FAA is one of the most flexible regulating authorities around. Just because JAR isn't.....
You need to take a computer test which shows you understand the 'air law' of FAA instrument flight, called the Instrument Foreign Pilot test. You can even get the questions on the FAA web site so can have it all revised before you arrive. No flight test required.
You can take the test all over the place. You probably need to jump through hoops to get the CAA to send your details to the FAA before you arrive. Then I'd advise an IPC with an instructor, which you can include in your club check out and BFR.
FAA web site for a start. As for immigration requirements, I don't have a clue anymore, and I'd guess it is the same for your chosen flight school
