C172 short field landings
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I am a believer in raising flap if the need arises, BUT as SAS has just posted, it should not be needed.Speed and trottle control all the way down, flare to arrest the ROD, close the trottle and touch all as one movement.
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SaS
I agree entirely with your view.
Unfortunately, as a matter of fact, the 172R has only flaps 30 as land flap, since the 40 degree setting was deleted on the P or N model (can't remember which.) It's a shame, as that last 10 degress gave some very useful drag.
Still, it shouldn't need test pilot tricks to land
Dumping lift, once all three wheels are down, is another matter. I believe (from memory) that the POH for one series of the Cherokee 6 mentioned this in the short field landing context - but you need to have a manual flap lever and it's a technique that would make me nervous in a retract, where there's too much risk of pulling the wrong knob! And you have to do it by feel, since looking in at this stage is pretty risky.
I agree entirely with your view.
Unfortunately, as a matter of fact, the 172R has only flaps 30 as land flap, since the 40 degree setting was deleted on the P or N model (can't remember which.) It's a shame, as that last 10 degress gave some very useful drag.
Still, it shouldn't need test pilot tricks to land
Dumping lift, once all three wheels are down, is another matter. I believe (from memory) that the POH for one series of the Cherokee 6 mentioned this in the short field landing context - but you need to have a manual flap lever and it's a technique that would make me nervous in a retract, where there's too much risk of pulling the wrong knob! And you have to do it by feel, since looking in at this stage is pretty risky.
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I can't really understand why they got rid of the 40 setting
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But the Go around drill is always to increase power, carb heat cold and reduce flap in stages to 15. If people are trained correctly, then this should never be a problem, but then again maybe cessna are scared of law suits. How sad.
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A chap I knew had to force land a 172 solo and used 40 degree flap. Unfortunately, he skidded through a gap in some trees in a hedge and both wings broke and folded back.
With the flaps in their barn door configuration, they had sliced through the back windows and god only know what the outcome would have been if there were pax in the back.
With the flaps in their barn door configuration, they had sliced through the back windows and god only know what the outcome would have been if there were pax in the back.
Oops pardon me
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Flaps
I once inadvertently selected flap up from flap 30 on a go around!
Any flap change on the 172 means a load of pushing forward on the control column but this flap change leaves u pushing like Arny and gluing your eyes to the ASI hoping the speed will will increase quickly!
Short field landings in the beast are as previously said, all about speed and nailing the attitude during the approach. Don't flare too soon and chop the power when u think you are over the hedge.
The rest is down to how your cards are dealt on the day!
Coop & Bear
Any flap change on the 172 means a load of pushing forward on the control column but this flap change leaves u pushing like Arny and gluing your eyes to the ASI hoping the speed will will increase quickly!
Short field landings in the beast are as previously said, all about speed and nailing the attitude during the approach. Don't flare too soon and chop the power when u think you are over the hedge.
The rest is down to how your cards are dealt on the day!
Coop & Bear
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Actually David V, the wee 150 could climb with full flap. In my very, very early days, I flew all the way to Downwind on a go-round with Flap 40. (One of those extended newbie brain-farts) The climb was slow, but not non-existent. That said, it felt very odd. And yes, I do know it's not the best way to carry on.
But aren't they forgiving little machines??
But aren't they forgiving little machines??
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Coopervave, 'chop the power when u think you are over the hedge' sorry not quite right. The flare, the throttle closed and the touch down is all one action, If you are closing the throttle 10 feet up you still have no control on the touch down spot, and for strip flying this is not good. You must be able to hit the spot every time in a full stall , No yes \no \maybe
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c-172 40 FLAP
One not often discovered reason for abandonning 40deg flap settings...
On early model 40 flap versions..try a very low speed approach with full flap. say at about 45kts ias. if you are too high on approach and apply full slide-slip (max rudder) the diverted turbulent airflow from the 40 deg flap over the tailplane will cause an instant and complete tail-plane stall with sudden violent nose down pitching moment.
very alarming and clearly fatal at less than 50ft agl.
On early model 40 flap versions..try a very low speed approach with full flap. say at about 45kts ias. if you are too high on approach and apply full slide-slip (max rudder) the diverted turbulent airflow from the 40 deg flap over the tailplane will cause an instant and complete tail-plane stall with sudden violent nose down pitching moment.
very alarming and clearly fatal at less than 50ft agl.
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Nice point rodneyblois , i hadn't considered that.
I was told the reason flaps 40 was elimated from the 172R was that some pilots were having difficulty holding forward-pressure at max power in a go-around.
From the 172R POH: Stalling speed.
Vs-clean: 44KIAS. 1.3Vs = 57KIAS
Vs-full flap: 33KIAS. 1.3Vs = 43KIAS
I was told the reason flaps 40 was elimated from the 172R was that some pilots were having difficulty holding forward-pressure at max power in a go-around.
From the 172R POH: Stalling speed.
Vs-clean: 44KIAS. 1.3Vs = 57KIAS
Vs-full flap: 33KIAS. 1.3Vs = 43KIAS
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Slim, (a) put the power back on and (b) if it has number's it is a airport, not a strip. Also can we get away from saying "chop power", it sound's rough, where as "closing the throttle " is a better term to use .
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Point of information.
The last mark of 172 to be have the 40 flap setting was the 172M. Subsequent marks only have 30 degrees. The later models also have the "lever-in-a-slot" rather than the switch and gauge for lowering the flaps.
(at least this is true of the M, N, P, R and S models of 172 that I've flown)
However the 182 still retains the 40 degrees setting.
Brooklands
The last mark of 172 to be have the 40 flap setting was the 172M. Subsequent marks only have 30 degrees. The later models also have the "lever-in-a-slot" rather than the switch and gauge for lowering the flaps.
(at least this is true of the M, N, P, R and S models of 172 that I've flown)
However the 182 still retains the 40 degrees setting.
Brooklands
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Brooklands,
At the risk of being pedantic ....
Not so, my friend : the N also has 40 degrees available, and they work very well, too !
FF
At the risk of being pedantic ....
The last mark of 172 to be have the 40 flap setting was the 172M. Subsequent marks only have 30 degrees
FF
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fu 24 950
Obviously you understood enough to answer the question.....
Cannot say I agree with you, but that's one of the highwing/lowwing debates. So nice to land a plane on the exact spot you chose when flying downwind, with no power from abeam the numbers. And if you are trying to get onto a real short strip with lots of high trees at the end there's nothing better than slipping it in (power off).
Ag pilots know nothing of this of course, they think you need oxygen above 50ft AGL
Obviously you understood enough to answer the question.....
Cannot say I agree with you, but that's one of the highwing/lowwing debates. So nice to land a plane on the exact spot you chose when flying downwind, with no power from abeam the numbers. And if you are trying to get onto a real short strip with lots of high trees at the end there's nothing better than slipping it in (power off).
Ag pilots know nothing of this of course, they think you need oxygen above 50ft AGL