Helmets and flying....(split)
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"Head Injuries"
Makes you want to reconsider the wear a helmet or not debate. Lots of bits in a cockpit harder than a persons head.
Hope they both recover OK.
Makes you want to reconsider the wear a helmet or not debate. Lots of bits in a cockpit harder than a persons head.
Hope they both recover OK.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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Caledonian ... that's true but..
How many light aircraft are fitted with airbags?
How many cars throw themselves at the ground whilst travelling at 60 mph?
Having rolled a car its amazing how much you are thrown around and how much crap gets chucked about at the time - and my car wasn't cluttered in anyway whatsoever... glad I inside a Volvo balloon.
Guess its personal choice and peer pressure... I ve got a helmet but have only worn it twice as feel silly getting out of 2 seater helo wearing it.
Check this thread though.
PW
How many light aircraft are fitted with airbags?
How many cars throw themselves at the ground whilst travelling at 60 mph?
Having rolled a car its amazing how much you are thrown around and how much crap gets chucked about at the time - and my car wasn't cluttered in anyway whatsoever... glad I inside a Volvo balloon.
Guess its personal choice and peer pressure... I ve got a helmet but have only worn it twice as feel silly getting out of 2 seater helo wearing it.
Check this thread though.
PW
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Hi
I have an argument with our HSE inspector here on the farm every year. He reckons I should wear a helmet on the quad bike as it's dangerous not to. IMHO this is rubbish... if I come off my quad around here I hit dirt as there are few rocks (grassland dairy farm). However, with a crash helmet I increase the moment on my neck and a broken neck due to a fall is more likely. It also reduces situational awareness ... which in itself may contribute to the likelihood off me coming off. So in this case you could justifiably argue that wearing a helmet is actually MORE dangerous than not.
Has this anything to do with wearing a helmet in an aircraft? Possibly not ... but it does show that just because it is perceived to be safer, it doesn't mean it always is!
SS
I have an argument with our HSE inspector here on the farm every year. He reckons I should wear a helmet on the quad bike as it's dangerous not to. IMHO this is rubbish... if I come off my quad around here I hit dirt as there are few rocks (grassland dairy farm). However, with a crash helmet I increase the moment on my neck and a broken neck due to a fall is more likely. It also reduces situational awareness ... which in itself may contribute to the likelihood off me coming off. So in this case you could justifiably argue that wearing a helmet is actually MORE dangerous than not.
Has this anything to do with wearing a helmet in an aircraft? Possibly not ... but it does show that just because it is perceived to be safer, it doesn't mean it always is!
SS
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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shortstripper... I can see where you re coming from but the argument doesn't really hold water.
If a crash helmet reduces situational awareness that much to possibly cause an accident wouldn't motorcyclists, etc keep falling off? (Yes I know they do anyway but never heard that as an excuse - and I ve heard a few over the last 15 years).
Same argument applies to the increased head movement.
Dirt/Mud/etc is can be as hard to the head as hitting concrete.
What happens if the quad lands on you or you strike it on the way down?
Also cockpits tend to be smaller than cars therefore putting your head closer to the hard bits.
Definately not suggesting it be made compulsory but worth considering..... The case for is to survive uninjured or die from possibly preventable injuries or (for me worse still) end up living but a cabbage..
PW
If a crash helmet reduces situational awareness that much to possibly cause an accident wouldn't motorcyclists, etc keep falling off? (Yes I know they do anyway but never heard that as an excuse - and I ve heard a few over the last 15 years).
Same argument applies to the increased head movement.
Dirt/Mud/etc is can be as hard to the head as hitting concrete.
What happens if the quad lands on you or you strike it on the way down?
Also cockpits tend to be smaller than cars therefore putting your head closer to the hard bits.
Definately not suggesting it be made compulsory but worth considering..... The case for is to survive uninjured or die from possibly preventable injuries or (for me worse still) end up living but a cabbage..
PW
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IMHO, the aircraft helmets I have seen (and occasionally used) are next to useless. They are typically a very thin shell, with almost no internal padding, and in the event that you actually hit something hard, I son't believe that they would do anything to reduce the overall impact that your skull experiences. The best you could hope for is a slight load spreading effect, which may or may not matter, depending on the size of the impact area - if it's a small, localised impact area, then chances are the object will penetrate the helmet anyway.
If you compare a/c helmets with motorcycle or car racing helmets, it's night & day. The latter really do offer substantial protection.
But wearing one of these precludes the use of headphones.....
I also believe that situational awareness is a more difficult art in an a/c than on the ground in a car or on a bike - you don't have nice neat lane markings on an essentially 2D surface, and other a/c can come at you at wildly varying speeds, at any angle - the speed differentials are potentially far greater, it's all in 3D, and you can't hear them coming! And they may not have seen you either.... Personally, wearing a helmet makes it more difficult to maintain awareness.
Proper belts are THE WAY to go - from what I have read, most head injuries in a/c are caused by heads hitting panels due to lack of upper body restraint. "Lap belts only" are the culprit.
Proper belts obviates the need for helmets in 99.34% of cases. (OK, I made that up, but you get the drift).
In the 0.66% of cases where that doesn't work - rather than helmets, I reckon airbags would work a treat in a/c - don't know how much these things weigh, but it certainly seems to be a future way forward....
A
If you compare a/c helmets with motorcycle or car racing helmets, it's night & day. The latter really do offer substantial protection.
But wearing one of these precludes the use of headphones.....
I also believe that situational awareness is a more difficult art in an a/c than on the ground in a car or on a bike - you don't have nice neat lane markings on an essentially 2D surface, and other a/c can come at you at wildly varying speeds, at any angle - the speed differentials are potentially far greater, it's all in 3D, and you can't hear them coming! And they may not have seen you either.... Personally, wearing a helmet makes it more difficult to maintain awareness.
Proper belts are THE WAY to go - from what I have read, most head injuries in a/c are caused by heads hitting panels due to lack of upper body restraint. "Lap belts only" are the culprit.
Proper belts obviates the need for helmets in 99.34% of cases. (OK, I made that up, but you get the drift).
In the 0.66% of cases where that doesn't work - rather than helmets, I reckon airbags would work a treat in a/c - don't know how much these things weigh, but it certainly seems to be a future way forward....
A
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Pilotwolf ...
Like I said my case scenario may well bear no relation to others.
Situational awareness? ... I once had a calved cow turn nasty on me when I was transporting her calf on the quad. She jumped across the back of the bike and I only avoided getting squished by making a quick exit! Another time (I won't go into why
) I ended up in a river whilst rounding up some bullocks! ... OK, not your usual motorcyle type situations ... but I think wearing a helmet would have made things worse in these cases. I do see your point and I certainly wear a helmet on a bike on the road, but nothing is black and white.
Helmets and flying are quite possibly a good idea, but there are certainly some gliders I have flown where I couldn't have worn one even if I wanted to. I also find them distracting ... which I do with sunglasses sometimes as well. I suppose it comes down to personal choice and risk assessment. I certainly woudn't think anybody sissy for wearing one!
SS
Like I said my case scenario may well bear no relation to others.
Situational awareness? ... I once had a calved cow turn nasty on me when I was transporting her calf on the quad. She jumped across the back of the bike and I only avoided getting squished by making a quick exit! Another time (I won't go into why
) I ended up in a river whilst rounding up some bullocks! ... OK, not your usual motorcyle type situations ... but I think wearing a helmet would have made things worse in these cases. I do see your point and I certainly wear a helmet on a bike on the road, but nothing is black and white.Helmets and flying are quite possibly a good idea, but there are certainly some gliders I have flown where I couldn't have worn one even if I wanted to. I also find them distracting ... which I do with sunglasses sometimes as well. I suppose it comes down to personal choice and risk assessment. I certainly woudn't think anybody sissy for wearing one!
SS
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Very subjective I know, but..
my bestsest friend, not wearing his helmet, was involved in an ugly aeroplane accident - 5 weeks in a coma and fractured his spine
Guy in the back, wearing his helmet and closer to the panel, fractured his spine in the same place (L5 &L6) and pulled himself out of the crash
I always wear a helmet, Pitts, Cub or Arrow!
Stik
my bestsest friend, not wearing his helmet, was involved in an ugly aeroplane accident - 5 weeks in a coma and fractured his spine
Guy in the back, wearing his helmet and closer to the panel, fractured his spine in the same place (L5 &L6) and pulled himself out of the crash
I always wear a helmet, Pitts, Cub or Arrow!
Stik
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There is an extensive thread on this topic in the rotorheads forum.
Link here.
I wear an alpha helmet and it is very light, comfortable and offers great protection. I don't believe situational awareness in a cockpit is affected since the helmet doesn't obstruct peripheral vision. But the best bit is the sun visor which means an end to sunglass/headset induced headaches!
Link here.
I wear an alpha helmet and it is very light, comfortable and offers great protection. I don't believe situational awareness in a cockpit is affected since the helmet doesn't obstruct peripheral vision. But the best bit is the sun visor which means an end to sunglass/headset induced headaches!
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Hmm.
I thought helicopter pilots wear helmets for communications? I don't know what the fast-jet chaps use them for.
I'd agree about the aviation helmets I've seen not being a patch on biker's helmets - I've come off my bike and was fine with my helmet. Aviation ones look flimsy.
Which is why I thought they were for communication and keeping warm!
BTW 4/5 point harnesses are the only viable solution. When I first saw the "lap strap" in the Cessna I used to fly I thought it was dangerous. before that I'd had a couple of flights in a friends Robin HR200 with 5-point harness.
WF.
I thought helicopter pilots wear helmets for communications? I don't know what the fast-jet chaps use them for.
I'd agree about the aviation helmets I've seen not being a patch on biker's helmets - I've come off my bike and was fine with my helmet. Aviation ones look flimsy.
Which is why I thought they were for communication and keeping warm!
BTW 4/5 point harnesses are the only viable solution. When I first saw the "lap strap" in the Cessna I used to fly I thought it was dangerous. before that I'd had a couple of flights in a friends Robin HR200 with 5-point harness.
WF.
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A flying helmet does have marginally better noise attentuation than a headset and it does keep the head warm, although it is not always desired, especially in the summer. I think that comparing a motorcycle helmet with an aviation helmet is like comparing a farm strip with Heathrow - they are there for slightly different reasons. A flying helmet will stop you banging your head on the cockpit, ie relatively low energy impacts - it would hopefully stop you being knocked out and allow you to effect an escape in a forced landing/ditching situation. I motorcycling helmet is designed to stop taking road rash to the face at 100mph.
That said, the Alpha helmet provides a significant amount of padding. It took a little getting used when I first wore a helmet - now I feel naked when I fly without one.
That said, the Alpha helmet provides a significant amount of padding. It took a little getting used when I first wore a helmet - now I feel naked when I fly without one.
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Just bought a helmet (like Friday afternoon) for the Veep.
Not because I think it would help my head if it impacted the ground, but as I think it would help my head if I hit the panel in front of me.
tKF
Not because I think it would help my head if it impacted the ground, but as I think it would help my head if I hit the panel in front of me.
tKF
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IMHO, the aircraft helmets I have seen (and occasionally used) are next to useless. They are typically a very thin shell, with almost no internal padding, and in the event that you actually hit something hard, I son't believe that they would do anything to reduce the overall impact that your skull experiences.
a lightweight, high impact resistant, kevlar and carbon fibre blend inner compact hard shell; outstanding head comfort with a felt lined, closed cell, energy absorbing, memory retentive, moulded lining
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I myself have an alpha Mk10b and I find it very handy when flying in the chippie, itll help keep my head warm plus it dispenses with the need of sunglasses (dual visors). In addition to all this its light and quite comfy and when it comes to aerobatics it stays on my head unlike a normal headset which could pivot backwards and cause distraction.
Awesome but Affordable
Well I probably owe my life to wearing a helmet. In 1972 I had a mid air collision which can be seen on the GA Safety Sense leaflet 13 "Collision avoidance" on the CAA GA website. I was wearing an RAF Mark 1 bonedome with a cloth inner. The helmet was badly broken but my skull was not. I sustained mild concussion only. It was during an airshow and I have worn head protection while flying in airshows since the mid 1960's. Presently I have an Alpha mark 10 retrofitted with an ANR mod kit plus two US helmets, one helicopter type and one fast jet fighter type modified with civil electrics and boom mikes. They are expensive but you only have one skull so you just have to make a choice. I did long ago.
Having said that I doubt if more than 15% of my 13,000 plus hours have been flown wearing head protection. In an air taxi Aztec or a flying club spamcan it would be a bit out of place.....!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
Having said that I doubt if more than 15% of my 13,000 plus hours have been flown wearing head protection. In an air taxi Aztec or a flying club spamcan it would be a bit out of place.....!!!
Cheers,
Trapper 69
